Caolela

Destro 5.4 stat prios

58 posts in this topic

Ok, am I crazy or did I just see Mr. Robot recommending Crit > Haste > Mast for Destro as default/ST build, with not a Haste or Mast gem in sight, (Mast > Crit > Haste as MT build)? Unless something's changed with Destro scaling lately, I've tried Crit-heavy builds in the past in PvE and PvP w/o much success. It only wasted tons of gold and my time.

 

The idea of getting off enough Bolts (and other stationary casts) now to have Crit be substantial doesn't seem to make sense.

 

Ideally, yeah Crit would be nice, but we all know what Crit is to warlocks in general: (3rd best secondary), and it doesn't scale well for Destruction, (well, neither do Mast & Haste for that matter). The ST build assumes T16 & Legendary gem, but according to their blurb it also includes the Burning Primal and is "...optimal for T15 and near-optimal at lower gear levels...".

 

*scratches head

 

 

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For SoO where most of fights u can Shadowburn-cleave adds and use a lot of RoF to "almost flow" in embers I recommend the Mastery > crit >> haste build.

 

 

Seems like the most effective overall at SoO

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Right, but I guess my point was...this is why I haven't used Robot in quite awhile. I don't know what they get their build ideas from, unless it's a proprietary algorithm or some "improved" version or take on SimC, but it hasn't done well for my warlock for the past several months. Seems very counter-intuitive. Also I know for a guildie's druid it has fairly sucked. So I showed her Icy Veins and her DPS has gotten better.

 

This is not just to bash Robot. For other specs/classes it may work well, idk. I'm simply trying to get at the best way to set up our toons, as we all are.

 

At any rate, is anyone here thinking Crit > Haste > Mast for Destro single-target as Robot recommends?

Edited by Caolela

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From my understanding, most of their values come from simming scale factors, though I'm not the most well-informed person on this subject.

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Right, but I guess my point was...this is why I haven't used Robot in quite awhile. I don't know what they get their build ideas from, unless it's a proprietary algorithm or some "improved" version or take on SimC, but it hasn't done well for my warlock for the past several months. Seems very counter-intuitive. Also I know for a guildie's druid it has fairly sucked. So I showed her Icy Veins and her DPS has gotten better.

 

This is not just to bash Robot. For other specs/classes it may work well, idk. I'm simply trying to get at the best way to set up our toons, as we all are.

 

At any rate, is anyone here thinking Crit > Haste > Mast for Destro single-target as Robot recommends?

 

The question is: With the plethora of AoE fights, why would you want to reforge to a single-target heavy priority (assuming AMR is right about that) for a spec that excels in AoE?

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Because my question was about ST Destro priority, and whether what Robot is posting is correct. I asked about the MT prio they give (M > C > H) parenthetically as a contrast.

 

I can SimC myself and go by whatever stats happen to come out top, which I've done several times before now. Even so, following that prio on a reforge doesn't always result great DPS on real fights, single or multi target, since the stats are so close in value and poor scaling.

Edited by Caolela

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Nobody knows what kind of drugs AMR is on really.  I think a lot of us just use it for reforging, but I could be wrong about that.

 

Basically, it's a safer bet to infer about stat weights on *this* site (even though Zagam hates stat weight questions and they've been talked to death) and to just ignore what AMR has to say on the subject.

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AMR it's not wrong, for Single Target the Best reforging result in an equally good gameplay the crit > haste > mastery build it's indeed better for a little small margin.

 

But, as we say before, there is NO POINT AT ALL at reforging a Single-target build for Destro, it's a waste of effort trying to improve..let's say...5k at Single target to lose 10k at AOE.

Edited by JvChequer

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Like I said, I haven't used Robot in months. I mainly use Reforge Lite now, and a bit of common sense. But I had hoped that they'd gotten things better sorted since the patch. Apparently not.

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I would get heavy mastery, reforges and gemming, as its almost overall damage aside from rain of fire which I dont think is in the single target rotation anymore. I think you go crit if you are starving embers but otherwise I would get lots of mastery. I dont think haste is very beneficial for destro as you only have  1 dot and it only increases cast speed otherwise.

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I would get heavy mastery, reforges and gemming, as its almost overall damage aside from rain of fire which I dont think is in the single target rotation anymore. I think you go crit if you are starving embers but otherwise I would get lots of mastery. I dont think haste is very beneficial for destro as you only have  1 dot and it only increases cast speed otherwise.

 

You shouldn't take increased cast speed lightly.  :)

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You shouldn't take increased cast speed lightly.  smile.png

I know I actually prefer Mastery > haste > crit as I bounce from all 3 specs and it seems work well. (although as an alt only lol)

Edited by trieu

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I did go Mast in 5.2-5.3, but I've been forging into the 1st Aff Haste point in 5.4, since I'm going between the 2 specs now more than mainly Destro.

Edited by Caolela

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http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/undermine/Kylasyria/advanced

 

I am overwhelmingly confused on how I should reforge and gem my lock.  Initially, I started out with my undead lock and leveled affliction until about level 40ish, then I pretty much played Destruction all the way to 90 (PvP'd a little as affliction, then just ran destruction).  Also, I recently leveled a human lock from 1-90 as demonology, I must say that I really don't like this spec.

 

On to the good stuff, I ran SimCraft 540-1 just moments ago and it gave me the following:

Int=      5.77

SP=     4.63

Hit=      4.23

Mast=   2.95

Crit=     2.65

Haste= 2.59

 

I copied the AMR link from SimC and opened in another browser and it is telling me to gem everything Int and Mastery and reforge for mastery.

 

I was under the 5.3 build with haste just last week and ran SimC around that time and it said to gem and reforge crit.  I just spent a ridiculous amount of money reforging from haste to crit and now I'm being told mastery.  I swear my DPS was higher before I went crit.  Further, on my haste build, I had all Int gems in red sockets and all other gems had int as well.  The crit and mastery builds don't include pure int gems on AMR.  This doesn't make sense to me since int is the highest weighted stat, seems counterintuitive.

 

Please, someone help me decipher what I need/should do.  Is it still too early to tell?   Will demo eclipse destro by a large margin come 5.4?

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Mastery > haste > crit

 

Destruction this tier plays best with AoE fights where you are able to throw out numerous Havocs and Shadowburns.  Your ember generation from these types of fights will be high using RoF, allowing you to get off your heavier hitting ember consuming spells which are buffed well by mastery.

 

As for your last statement, since you have a UVLS you can do some serious damage as Demonology.  Most fights I'm using Demonology and wouldn't be able to come close with Destruction.  Given, your UVLS is LFR, but as long as it's proccing early every fight for you then you'll see good results.

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If Noxxic is to be believed, then yes, Destro will fall behind the other 2 as ilvl increases starting from say 522 range. Aff will be behind only BM hunter at BiS, but only a tiny few will be in BiS range so that's kind of moot. The excuse I've seen from Blizz & "community devs" (leet players) is that Dest is an "easy" spec and thus doesn't deserve equal DPS output. IMO though, it has more to do with other classes hating a bursty, fun spec like Dest being actually fun and competitive at the same time. THAT'S why Destro stats don't scale well like Aff & Demo.

 

Yet they do nothing about several other specs/classes, or actually buff them more. So you get to FotM some more. Again. And again. Ever feel like you're being taken for a fool by Blizz? I do.

 

As I said above, not sure what the prob is over at AMR, but I've seen the same things you describe. I've Simmed, entered my toon's own numbers and followed several of their suggested set-ups, but have had poor results much of the time. Essentially it just wastes more gold and time in the game. So I started using other tools for gems/forges a few months ago.

 

And listen guys - don't kill the messenger because the message isn't pretty. If this crap wasn't going on, no one would have to talk about it.

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Warlocks have seen some of the most love this expansion of all the classes IMO.  Destruction has never been a bastard child.  They've always had a spot somewhere.  Be it arena, BG's or certain fights in raids.  Last tier was a definite step up for them.  This tier there are even more fights that let them take advantage of their strengths.  I'm not sure what people are complaining about.

 

P.S.  Don't look at Noxxic.

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Mastery > haste > crit

 

Destruction this tier plays best with AoE fights where you are able to throw out numerous Havocs and Shadowburns.  Your ember generation from these types of fights will be high using RoF, allowing you to get off your heavier hitting ember consuming spells which are buffed well by mastery.

 

As for your last statement, since you have a UVLS you can do some serious damage as Demonology.  Most fights I'm using Demonology and wouldn't be able to come close with Destruction.  Given, your UVLS is LFR, but as long as it's proccing early every fight for you then you'll see good results.

 

Numerous Havocs & SBs are nice sure, if mobs aren't dead by the time you get them off. Especially when you have to move then wait another 2 weeks to get a Bolt off, and/or missed your procs, and/or use up your Backdrafts.

 

So yeah, AoE trash mob janitor, and Havoc/SB snipes. Fun.

 

Edit: "P.S.  Don't look at Noxxic."

 

I try not to, but was using as an example.

Edited by Caolela

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So you're saying Destruction is not good if you're not able to take advantage of its strengths?  Once someone *really* understands Destruction you are able to take advantage of many situations.  You know when you have windows to let off your CB's.  You know when a mob will be alive long enough to chunk 2 mobs down simultaneously with 3x2 Shadowburns.  You anticipate your procs.  Just like any other spec in the game.

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I guess I better learn to like demo if I still want to be relevant sad.png  I just don't care for the play style, honestly.

 

I think I'm going to go back and add int gems since the weight is higher, it seems like I lost 3k spell power by gemming for crit.

Edited by Waramaur

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It all sounds good on paper, or in a Simcraft, but in actual use it's not. It's a matter of Random Procs Per Minute trinks and other procs (4 in my case), while having Embers saved up, while being somehow lined up with having enough time to cast your biggest dmg spell without moving, which is much longer than other hard-casted spells - simultaneously. To some extent all 3 can be predicted or guessed at, but largely not all 3 together. SB only happens at -20% HP. If on a boss OK, but get one or two off before an add dies and/or the dmg isn't wasted you're lucky.

 

What do you do in the meantime, waiting for those few 'windows' that may or may not happen? You suck is what. KJC should not have been nerfed considering Destro's playstyle, even though Blizz has tried to give some back in bits & pieces. It's regressed to very Cata-like play now.

 

 

Waramaur - that's a good question. Apparently for many of these builds, Mast or Crit or Haste outweighs Int for a class that Int is supposed to be a Primary stat. You'd think Spell Power and Spell Critical Hit together would do better.

Edited by Caolela

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I guess it's all a matter of perspective.  I play a warlock.  I don't play a Demonologist.  I use every spec as a tool for each fight.  If I know I can take advantage of a certain fight with Destruction, then I'll use it.  There isn't enough hard data on Destruction right now to determine whether or not they, as you say, "suck".  I don't believe that's true, and they'll only get better at their role after acquiring some of the new trinkets.

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The reason secondary stats are budgeted above primary is that you get twice as many points for a secondary stat from a gem.  so for example, your previous post listed int at 5.77, and mastery at 2.95.  two points of mastery (5.90) is better than one int. 

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Destruction does NOT suck.  The increase to Incinerate and Chaos Bolt along with the Ember generation increase makes it very solid.  Destro was only 7% behind Aff/Demo before the ember generation increase and that was purely single target.  With just one extra target to hit, Destro matched evenly.  It's a very good spec and is right where it should be.

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