Toramir

Ret Haste value

25 posts in this topic

Hi guys,

 

The question I have been wondering is if it is ever worth _stopping_ gemming haste, and instead swapping to mastery?

I have seen one or two rets do this, and I'm wondering if there is any reason for this, if there is a certain gear level at which it is more beneficial to swap over. 

 

Would be interesting to know if at some point mastery catches up (one ret I saw had like 50% mastery on armory). 

 

If it is worth it, at what point would one stop gemming maybe even reforging haste?

 

Cheers!

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I'm not entirely sure yet. From what I'm gathering from our gear choices, it seems we'll be getting a decent amount of haste and mastery from base stat figures on the gear itself. But this time there is no actual haste trinket, as in with the main stat being haste - not the proc itself. So I assume gemming will be the same as it was before.

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Even in BIS gear Haste is at about 41% so until you reach 50% you're really not losing anything.  So stick with Haste!

Now the trinket Thok's Tail Tip will effect your next stat priority.

 

With Thok's Tail Tip: Haste > Crit > Mastery

 

Without: Haste > Mastery > Crit 

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Is the 40% haste softcap considered with or without raidbuffs ?

The raid buff doesn't affect haste the same way gemming/stat haste does. It only adds % attack speed, not #haste, so CS and other skills don't have reduced cds.

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The raid buff doesn't affect haste the same way gemming/stat haste does. It only adds % attack speed, not #haste, so CS and other skills don't have reduced cds.

ok, got it.

Other question:  If i reach the 40% haste from own stats, my skills can be chain-cast with no pause in between right ?

Edited by Urgsta

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ok, got it.

Other question:  If i reach the 40% haste from own stats, my skills can be chain-cast with no pause in between right ?

 

Your global wont effect you no, however your spells will still have there own countdowns so youd end up waiting for them.

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40% haste will not bring your GCD to 1s. No raid buffs affect your GCD, and even if they did, its not an additive formula.

 

The formula for your GCD is: (It's the same as casting speeds, or regular ret/prot CDs)

 

1s = Base GCD (1.5s) / 1.(Haste%) * 1.(Haste% from buffs)

 

Since no buffs (except Seal of Insight) affect your CDs/GCD specifically, then your only haste value to hit your GCD would be at 21250 haste rating, or 50% haste. However from several of my Ret Paladin friends, they seem to all agree that GCD plays little value in your dps compared to getting those CDs lowered, and eventually Mastery (or Crit with Thok's Trinket) takes over haste at a certain point.

Edited by Fouton

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The point at which crit or mastery overtake haste won't be reached before the new expansion is released. Getting to the 50% mark requires mostly heroic/heroic-warforged gear and even then haste is still insanely valuable because of sanctity of battle. You would eventually get to the point where you wouldn't ever have to exorcism because the CD for crusader strike/judgement/hammer of wrath is so low that you can essentially spam them under certain conditions. A good example of a fun gimmick for this is soloing Alysrazor. After a few stacks of the buff from the fire rings you'll have so much haste that you can just pop wings and spam hammer of wrath/TV and the boss just melts.

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I've seen some stuff saying hit 40% and then swap to Mastery, but 50% is also the cap, so I believe it comes down to personal preference.  Our Mastery effect seems to always be a huge chunk of DPS (Hand of Light is consistently my #1 damaging ability) so I'm more inclined to hit 40% Haste and then go Mastery heavy for that reason alone.

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Um, you do realize that paladins also Lower their GCD whith Haste right? so its not like you go from having GCDs empty to no GCDs; it all scales linearly, they're going to use CS every 3 GCDs whether you have 0% haste or 50% haste, the only difference is that those  3GCDs take 4.5 seconds at 0% and 3 seconds at 50% haste. they're not just going to magically fill their empty GCDs becuase they get more haste, in factas they increase Haste they also increase the amount of empty GCDs in a given time period, e.g. if say 1 in 10 GCDs are empty, at 0% haste this means the pally gets 1 empty GCD ever 15 seconds or so, at 50% haste this would mean 1 empty GCD every 10 seconds. The only way to GCD lock a paladin is to get lucky with either DP procs or 4-set procs.

 

And Druids aren't the only GCD locked Tank. Protection Warriors are GCD locked, Brewmasters are GCD locked. As a protection warrior Shockwave, Stormbolt, Impending VIctory, or Victory both require GCDs that take aways from our DPS and more importantly our RPS, as a Brewmaster Leg sweep, Charging Ox Wave, Tiger's lust, Detox all are on The GCD and require us to give up GCD we could spend Tiger Palming to generate EB stacks. Hell, Chi Wave and Shattering Throw have Cast times.

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My apologies. I'm not in a good state and I'm just going to delete that post. I don't know what I was thinking when I wrote it.

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I've seen some stuff saying hit 40% and then swap to Mastery, but 50% is also the cap, so I believe it comes down to personal preference.  Our Mastery effect seems to always be a huge chunk of DPS (Hand of Light is consistently my #1 damaging ability) so I'm more inclined to hit 40% Haste and then go Mastery heavy for that reason alone.

There technically is no cap for haste, even past 50% haste continues to lower the cooldown of all abilities affected by sanctity of battle (Judge,CS,HoW) so you would eventually replace the lower damage abilities with the higher damage ones. 50% is only a "cap"/threshold/whatever because mastery (or crit with the Thok trinket) starts to compete more. It's very relative to your gear/personal preference but I'd say anything in the 40%-50% haste range is yummy.

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50% haste is a threshold because at that point your GCD becomes 1 second, and any further haste cannot drop  the GCD below 1 second so lowering the CD of abilities doesn't actually matter any more becuase unelss you can get them to multiple of 1 second its not going to have much affect. The next point for J/HoW is 100% haste, CS is at 125% haste, 66.66% for Exo but the AoW procs make this less valuable, so after 50% this point all haste is doing is accelerating your SoT ticks and white swings.

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Hey, I'm a Warlock and likely have no place here, but I do have a Ret alt and talk to some of the best Retadins I know.  The reason for 40% instead of 50% is only after you acquire your 4pc bonus.  This is because you'll be spending more of your time on Holy Power consuming abilities instead of Holy Power building abilities.  Divine Storm takes a higher percentage of your skill use after your 4pc is acquired and you want it to hit harder.  It scales with Mastery, so that's why you sacrifice 10% to snag the extra Mastery.

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Funny enough Zagam, my ret friend that I go to for information on this JUST told me the same thing! I need to play a ret paladin finally so that I can have full knowledge of my class =( Prot/Holy is great, but knowing everything in my class might be more important =P

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I pride myself on knowing 100% of Warlock stuff and 90% of every other class...just wanted to toss my two cents!

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I know Prot/Holy/Hunter and that's about where it ends =P After that it's friends knowledge, icy veins class guides, and looking up logs of my old heroic raiding guild

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I'd like to add a little theorycrafting in here, after 40% haste w/ 4pc t16, mastery is a popular addition because of how much it's affected by gemming, and while I personally haven't done it, you could also, with TTT, go for crit, it won't have any negative affect on your DPS, as crit = mastery anyway, but it could be more beneficial with the amplification going on. So keep that in mind.

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Perhaps I don't understand what you mean, but how is it affected by gemming? Aren't all stats affected by gemming equally?

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We get almost 2x as much mastery% from 160 and 320 stat gems as we do crit. I just tested it to make sure I was right.

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You also do from stats on gear as well :P All stats would be affected the same way, it's just what stat is better in a stat vs stat comparison. Either way I seemed to misunderstand what you were talking about.

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Just that with the amp, the crit is more effective over the mastery that's what I'm getting at :P

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Oh okay gotcha :) That is definitely true! Sorry it took me a bit to get what you meant

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