Krazyito

Looking for resto druid help.

18 posts in this topic

A lot of you may know me from the monk forums where I pretty much tell everyone how to play and gear a mistweaver.

Now it's my turn to ask for help. I'm playing resto druid for my main raid (currently 4/14H) and now am caught up gear wise. I don't have my meta or cloak yet and I'm also raid leading (mostly healing cooldowns and some mechanic reminders).

I want to ask of this community what I can try to focus on to improve.

Here are my guild logs, looking at this week (10/8) I have been in every heroic kill (up to sha). I would please ask you you ignore immerseus as it was a fluke and I only did that much healing because we used a new position strategy that allowed me to abuse mushrooms. My armory is in my signature.

Here is my usual raid set up:
1 disc, 1 holy, 2 paladin, 1 shaman, 1 druid (myself)

I know my problem areas are the following :

  1. Rejuv: I'm pretty sure I just need to cast this more, but I need to find out how with out wasting too much mana.  Possible once I get the meta gem this will help.
  2. Bloom usage: There are just some times where I never bloom. Other than some obvious areas (such as this weeks immerseus kill.  I think this is just something that I have to look out for myself.  On top of purposely "recharging" it myself.
  3. Crit gear: Yes, i know i have like 4 pieces of crit gear.  I will replace them once it drops, but the intellect upgrade was significantly better than the 502 items I had before.
  4. Harmony: Usually the uptime is fine, but recently I made a pretty giant and very opaque weak aura to remind me to refresh it incase im not paying as much attention while looking at timers.  This shouldn't be a problem any more but you may see it as a problem in older logs.
  5. Mana: I recently went into the 13k haste breakpoint and am currently sitting at 12.8k spirit and 5.6k mastery.  I feel like the haste breakpoint took a chunk of my spirit and am unsure if i should wait for the meta gem or not to decide to keep it.  I also am going to be running Heroic Throne of Thunder to try to get the Horridon's Last Gasp trinket for some more mana intensive fights. (Though I'm going to despise 10 man loot with a passion, QQ my monk has HTF >.>)

 

Another thing is stats.  Should I just keep 13k haste? or go back to a full mastery build and try to compare the heroics? Maybe go back to 13k haste when I get more passive haste gear.

 

Thats about as much as I can think of.  If anyone wants to look at my logs and my armory and let me know what they think. Also if you have any questions about how I play ill be happy to answer.  I feel like I understand what I should be doing though I'm either underperforming when it comes to raids and I just don't know what to focus on, or its possible that i need the LMG/cloak.  

 

Thank you for reading.

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Howdy,

 

Not sure I'm qualified to give you advice since most of what I know about healing came from you.  Also, i raid 10s so it might be different.

 

But here goes. You are right, more rejuvs, should probably be where most of your healing comes from.

I run  with under 12k spirit and don't have mana issues (with LMG and reg HLG).  Once you get the LMG you can get that spirit into mastery

 

With your ilvl the you made the right choice going for the 13k haste breakpoint.

 

It is clear from you post you know what to do, maybe you just need to play more to get more comfortable.

 

Keep lifebloom up as much as possible

And don't forget to use genesis to super-speedy charge your shrooms.

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You are what I would call an "elite" player and the questions you are asking require a deeper knowledge of the class mechanics than I'm able to offer. I checked out the Protectors log to get an idea of how you are operating.

 

I noticed that you take SotF. What do you spend your 100% haste buff on? It looks like it's sometimes Wild Growth but not always.

 

Wild Growth is being used more or less mechanically on cooldown. It has a lot of front-loaded burst now, so I'm not sure this is the right way to go with it unless it meshes well with the kind of damage people are taking.

 

Harmony only fell off once, but it was right after a Tranquility cast, which I think is a bit odd.

Edited by Tarazet

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My harmony from logs this week should not be a huge deal.  I made a very noticeable aura in the middle of my screen in-case i forget to do something while trying to look at what cooldowns I should be calling next.

 

As for the 13k haste breakpoint, I've talked to some other people, and feel that its not really worth getting at the moment. I don't have enough haste gear.

 

So I am currently going to go back to mastery (on Tuesday so I have logs to compare for next week) and keep going for a full mastery set while also making a side-set with a more haste centric build.  Once I finish the haste set is when I'll go back to using it to compare with my mastery set.

 

As for SotF usage, I'm using it on Wild Growth when its not on CD.  I'm of the mindset that I should be using my CD on CD.  (kind of a "if its not on CD its not being useful", kinda deal.  Of course this only applies to the short 15s~ or less)

 

I usually try to use the SoTF proc on a RJ on the tank if WG is on CD.  Have any ideas of what I should be doing with it instead? I'm open to any suggestion.

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Rejuv and Bloom could be used more often, make sure you have it fully charged.

Logs won't show this but do you fully charge one before all fights?

 

As for SofF, WG is best for it but you can also use it on LB after you already have 2 or 3 stacks to more than double its healing, don't be afraid to let it expire either. Its also good with Tranq.

 

Ironbark could have a higher up time too, only got used 3 times on that protector fight.

 

Your current armory shows HoTW, when you use that, be sure to remember it is now a healing cd too. 

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My understanding is that SotF will never increase your overall throughput, since it shortens the duration of the spell by the same amount that its haste is increased. You use it when faster ticks benefit you more than the extra healing that the other talents in that tier provide to you.. e.g. SM+LB for more CC procs allowing you to refresh it with a free HT (though the haste benefit doesn't carry through?), or SM+Tranq if you can't stand still for the full duration of the channel or SM+WG for more bursty and less steady raid healing.

Edited by Tarazet

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My understanding is that SotF will never increase your overall throughput, since it shortens the duration of the spell by the same amount that its haste is increased. You use it when faster ticks benefit you more than the extra healing that the other talents in that tier provide to you.. e.g. SM+LB for more CC procs allowing you to refresh it with a free HT (though the haste benefit doesn't carry through?), or SM+Tranq if you can't stand still for the full duration of the channel or SM+WG for more bursty and less steady raid healing.

 

SotF increases the haste of your next spell by 100%, Haste for HoTs, and DoTs, never shortens the duration of the spell it simply increases the speed at which they tick. 

 

Lets take Rejuv as an example:

 

Just for simplicity I'm using 0% base haste.

 

Rejuv lasts 12 seconds and with zero haste, it ticks every 3 seconds, for a total of 4 ticks.

 

With SotF you get 100% haste, so in that same 12 seconds we get 100% more haste which will make the ticks happen every 1.5 seconds, for a total of 8 ticks.

 

While it may not seem that exciting on Rejuv, this is incredibly strong when used with WG or LB.

 

LB - 1 tick per second with 0% haste, 1 tick every .5 seconds with SotF. (15 extra ticks)

WG - 1 tick per second with 0% haste, 1 tick every .5 seconds with SofF (7 extra ticks)

 

So that is a big increase in throughput.

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That must have been part of the 5.4 change. In 5.3 it would reduce the duration of the spell proportionally.

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No, I don't charge the mushroom as often as I should before a pull actually.  And I'm mostly saving Ironbark to use when tanks call for it though its few and far between so I just use it when it looks like they are in need of it. 

 

 

That must have been part of the 5.4 change. In 5.3 it would reduce the duration of the spell proportionally.

I don't think that was ever the case.  The only thing I can think of that does what you're saying is Genesis. 

 

 

--

 

As for myself, My logs are up on that same page for Monday.  Should be galakras through Garrosh if anyone wants to look.  I got a few upgrades (including 4pc) and have switched from the 13k haste build to a pure mastery build.

 

Guess we'll see how they work.

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No, I don't charge the mushroom as often as I should before a pull actually.  And I'm mostly saving Ironbark to use when tanks call for it though its few and far between so I just use it when it looks like they are in need of it. 

 

As the tank, I just use Barkskin on cooldown. With an ability like that which has such a short cooldown, if you save it only for the 'right moment,' you use it so late that by then, you could have used it 2-3 times. I mean, if the tank damage is so low that the basic HoTs that healers keep up 100% on the tank are enough to handle all of the incoming damage, then maybe it's not worth using Ironbark right at that moment, but any significant damage is enough reason to throw on a mild damage reduction or external, IMO.

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I'm wondering how you are liking the pure Mastery build?  I keep low haste/high mastery but was thinking of switching to the next haste break point and switching out the mastery.

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I actually think both are the same HPS wise.  The only real difference is fast healing touch/regrowth casts or harder hitting ones.

 

The reason I switched back to mastery though is because the gear I have was more tailored for that because I did not have enough haste on my gear.  I'm gonna keep with that trend with my gear but i am going to work towards a more haste oriented build so i can properly try the 13k haste breakpoint.

 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AugcKN4r6rnMdEhkSHYxdGFXREdsRnZSM3I3bW1helE&usp=sharing

 

There is my BiS list I made for myself if anyone is interested.  I'm going to add a haste build list soon.

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When a haste and a mastery build yields the same hps, you should always go mastery. Haste is mana negative (though rppm trinkets and stuff like that may make up for this).

I think using Bloom effectivly looks like the area you need to practise the most. Using barkskin more liberally and timing SotF a little better are also things you could work upon.

Other than that it looks pretty good :)

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Well, about haste and mastery, thats not necessarily true.  Some people enjoy the "faster" playstyle and can manage their mana well enough to use it, on top of getting heals in quicker for spot healing.

 

As for barkskin, I already pretty much use it any single time I take some sort of damage.  Iron bark is what I should be using more on top of Mushroom Bloom.

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Sorry, I meant Iron Bark. Still haven't gotten used to having that ability :)
 

Regarding haste vs. mastery:
I'm not saying haste is bad. in fact it's wonderful for many occasions. However, outside of spam healing (which drains more mana at higher haste levels) and hots, haste will do nothing for your hps, besides fastening your spot healing.

If you're mainly using hots, as a druid often is, haste is great, and the difference to mastery comes down to fancy mathematical equations. As far as I've heard, mastery outperforms haste on a point for point basis once you've reached the 12,5% haste cap.
While this may not be true for all occasions, I beliveve mastery should generally be prefered since haste is either mana negative (spam healing) or not being fully exploited (as is the case when you're not spam healing).

I'm not saying you shouldn't try a haste build; you should do so, to see if you like it better (enjoyment > math), but very rarely - and this is my personal experience - will it outperform a 12,5 % haste > mastery build.

I'm all for enjoyment over stats however, so if you like a pure/higher haste build better than pumping points into mastery that is what you should do. But unless you really like those fast regrowths, I don't think it's worth it.
 

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I'm of the opinion that Haste is usually mana positive for Druids, just because we so rarely use cast-time heals and if our HoTs can tick more, we use them even less. Resto Druid is very much the exception that proves the rule; if we find ourselves spamming Healing Touch and Regrowth a lot, it's usually because we did something wrong. The vast majority of a Druid's healing spells are of the type that the more Haste you have, the more efficient it is per cast, and that means it ends up being a mana saver.

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Haste will only out perform mastery if you can get the full duration of a HoT off, which in most cases isn't gonna happen therefore mastery in will actually provide higher healing output.

 

(using askmrrobot generic druid 553 gear)

Example:

  1. 37.5% Haste / 20% Mastery
    Rejuv (6ticks) say it hits 30K a tick for 180K total
     
  2. 12.5% Haste / 36% Mastery
    Rejuv (5ticks) say it hits 34.8K a tick for 174K total

So using those examples if rejuv only effectively heals for a few ticks then mastery will pull ahead. 

 

As for healing touch and regrowth mastery will benefit them more too, specially if you take into account good use of clearcasting procs and glyph'd regrowth so a few tenths of a sec off the cast time won't be as beneficial as 16% increased healing and that is then 16% more put into living seed.

 

Now if you factor in both the T16 2p and 4p, mastery again will out perform haste, A stronger free healing touch and a stronger wild growth initial heal.

 

As far as mana goes mastery build allows for a higher spirit total than a haste build (still using generic 553 druid from askrobot)

 

But that's just theory-crafting which totally ignore play style. The build you want needs to reflect your personal play style more than anything.

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You're way ahead of myself progression-wise, so my views may not be content-appropriate:

 

- Lifebloom uptime seems low. This sometimes happens when tanks aren't taking much damage and every gcd is used on raid healing, but there's a nice synergy of Clearcasting -> free Regrowth on tank -> refresh Lifebloom. If for whatever reason you can't keep Lifebloom up on the tank, it's often worth moving the Lifebloom to someone else. I have a Weak Aura progress bar that shows me remaining duration on Harmony and Lifebloom.

- I really like SotF and always try to use it with WG (this involves holding Swiftmend for 1 second since 2 WG = 16 seconds of cooldown), but of course on many fights WG won't be used on cooldown. It also lets me find SotF WG haste breakpoints that are close to my gear. When WG is on cooldown, Tranquility, Lifebloom and Rj are good candidates for SotF, mostly I used it with Rj on a raid member that is taking significant damage (also, Swiftmend -> Rejuv -> Genesis is some very strong, very expensive single target burst). I'm an engineer so I use the 1920 Int on-use effect together with SotF for very hard-hitting Wild Growths.

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