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Vapir

stuck at Garrosh 10m reg

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Hello all, my team has been having some difficulty with Garrosh on 10man normal. I've supplied our WoL in the link below.

 

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/5fzuix7kklmo4xrl/

 

I don't have too much experience with World of Logs, so I'm hoping someone or a few of you can spot any possible things to clean up with our attempts. We've been stuck for a couple of weeks now, and our progression within the fight is varied. Sometimes we wipe in the second phase and other times in the third, so there is not a consistent mechanic we are failing with that I can see. It seems like it's spike damage that's getting the best of us, but idk. This is also the first time i've requested help on a forum for a specific boss, so please ask any questions that would help you make a hypothesis.

 

-Vapir

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Here is a log I found that was a kill and very similar to your raids setup (Both numbers wise and comp):

http://worldoflogs.com/reports/hpvhevit6439l8if/sum/damageDone/?s=7819&e=8556

Your right in that deaths seem to be happening all over the place throughout your attempts. Some on Annihilate's, some on Whirling Corruptions, Add's overtaking, etc.

Obviously everyone needs to get the damage reduction buff in transition phases for Annihilates...Looks like after the first two attempts everyone was getting it.

A few sporadic Desecration deaths so either people need to be more aware when its coming out for proper placement's or those were just "wipe it up, go stand in shit deaths".

After that, it looks like it just might boil down to dps numbers. Most common deaths on longer attempts seem to come from Add/MC damage. I would strongly think about two healing this fight. I think even with a healer going dps, the raid will still have enough CD's from tanks and dps (Rallying, AMZ, Barrier, VE, Tranq, etc...Also for example, if the your shaman can go dps you would still have a HTT and an Ancestral Guidance to help heal) to withstand Annihilate phases and whirling corruption phases.

Obviously phase 3 will just be hectic regardless, but with a lust/potion/execute phase + a few CD's I think you guys can make it. Just one opinion but I would give two healing a shot.

Best of luck.

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Hard to always determine mechanic issues from logs alone, but...

 

-People can't die to annihilate in realm.

-Have to rotate raid CDs to ensure people survive whirling -- you're three healing which means these should be easily rotated (shaman totem/spirit link, disc priest bubble for non-empowered/spirit shell for others, druid tranq/maybe genesis to burst rejuvs, and keep healing rain stacked on mushroom).

-Are people picking up 1 of the empowered whirling minions and then nuking away from others?

-Don't use dots on the MCs (though this mostly seems to be people dotting up MCs after it's pretty much GG).

 

The varied issues you mentioned earlier would help more with feedback.

 

EDIT: and yeah, now that I see another response, maybe drop a healer -- if your balance set is decent then shaman/priest should have no problems healing that fight.

Edited by Brown

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You have a fair number of unnecassary deaths from people standing in one-shots like rolling Iron stars and the transition phase frontal cones. really doesn't need to happen.

 

Your prot warrior's shield Block uptime is appalling, 17 times in 45 minutes of combat; he should be casting it more or less every 9 seconds. No matter what build  Prot uses it still relies heavily on Shield Block. his Berserker Rage usage is also less than stellar, with no fears, charms, he doesn't need to save it and should just pop it on CD for extra rage.

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Raid leader and tank for this group reporting. I thought I'd add a little bit of info regarding how we are approaching this fight in order to hopefully give you guys a little better idea of what is going on other than what you can see from data. Thank you all for your prompt replies thus far; they are most appreciated. We've only worked on this fight for one dedicated evening, but from what I can tell, it is a significant jump up in difficulty from the previous encounters.

 

Regarding composition/setup:

 

These logs do not cover all of our attempts. Our strategy has flopped around a bit, alternating between two and three heals to see if we could make two work. Our strongest healer is our druid, but unfortunately, he is also probably our strongest off-spec DPS. We were a bit concerned with two-heal throughput numbers without him. We tried two healing with dpriest/druid and having our rshaman go elemental, but her DPS isn't exactly terrific. It almost felt like we were bringing more to the table with her staying resto, but since we haven't seen a clean version of the final phase, we don't know if being short that extra DPS is going to pose an insurmountable obstacle.

 

Regarding strategy:

 

When we two-heal, we send our shaman (our lowest DPS) to kill the engineer in P1. When we three-heal, that duty is on the mage. As for tanking, I (death knight) was on add-duty in P1 when we first tried this fight, but that forced our warrior to stop any AoE DPS. I simply could not compete with the massive amount of single-target vengeance he was receiving from Garrosh, plus TC, deep wounds, and Dragon Roar hit like trucks. All the adds would just go to him. So I decided that I'd just let him go nuts with his vengeance bomb, grab all the adds that I wrangled, and when they were on him, I'd simply grab Garrosh. Seems to work pretty well.

 

With the mention of shield block, he has said that he has become a bit barrier-happy lately, and he'll focus on using block more. He uses an avoidance-riposte build instead of a mastery build, so he said that the value of block was lessened, but I'm pretty sure that it's still the go-to for pure physical damage, particularly on fights with lots of mobs or quick swing timers. Then again, I know very little about warriors nowadays, so this is somewhat speculative, and I may just be talking out of a certain dorsal orifice.

 

Regarding a lot of the deaths:

 

I think there may be a good bit of false information that was collected in the midst of wipe-it-up moments. I certainly stood in my fair share of annihilates and desecrates in order to hopefully get a vanish, feign, or invis off when things became unsalvageable. I think the only real issues with those types of deaths came from our hunter who was not very well informed on the fight and had not seen a previous pull. From what I can tell, other than a few corner cases of derp moments, most of our deaths came from whirling corruption damage + adds. This is not so much from combing the data, but rather from just being in this raid and seeing it unfold firsthand.

 

There were a few times when we had a tank spike or a moment of inexplicable stupid, but the majority of our problem seems to come from those empowered whirls. I'm not sure if it is more from people standing in the void zones that spawn the adds or from the adds themselves. I do know that we had a bit of an issue with our DPS not being able to single-target peel adds from others, particularly healers. I have heard of tanks having issues with getting all of their aggro, but this has not been a problem or ours. The instances you see where the whirl adds killed me were usually a result of me taunting extra adds when I would see two or more chewing on a non-tank. I generally have to taunt these or actively hit them to get them on myself, so there is no issue there. We just have trouble spacing them out and peeling them off of players who have 2+.

 

As you can see here, Whirling Corruption is definitely a problem of ours. Any insight would be appreciated.

 

In Closing

 

I've been raiding in WoW for a very long time, and I have found that most speedbumps that occur in progression can be remedied by increasing every individual players' DPS or by switching a healer to DPS. It works almost every time. This fight, though our experience with it is a tad limited, seems to be a bit of a mysterious balancing act to the point that I'm not 100% certain that is the instant fix. There seems to be a considerable amount of damage, and most of our deaths (on attempts where we aren't just trying to wipe because of an errant, goofy death or two) seem to come from one or more or the damage components to the empowered whirl. I don't know how much dropping to two healers would help with this, but more importantly, I don't know how imperative it will be to have 6 DPS in the final phase. I'd really hate to master the first two phases with 3 healers only to find that we have to redo it with 2 because the final phase is impossible. Two heals certainly seems to be the consensus thus far, not only here but also in most of the sources I've seen.

 

I hope that I've given a tiny bit of insight as to what we've been doing/thinking so far, and again, I appreciate everyone's effort to throw advice or critique our way. We may be a bit premature/antsy by posting for WoL analyses after only having one night dedicated to the fight, but it seems like this is a fight that may give us some headaches for a bit if we don't figure out exactly what our problems are and what we need to do to improve them.

 

Thanks again, and cheers!

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Hi there,

 

Just a few insights to the way my team attacked this boss.

 

We tried 3 healing and yes it makes the first phases rather trivial and easy but at the end it makes that final phase so much longer. All of our kills have been 2 healed by either disc/pally or disc/monk.

 

This fight is very much avoid "goofy" deaths. The timers for the mechanics are actually very forgiving. there is enough time between the phases for all 3 min healer cds to be up.

We use a triangle stack method where the raid moves between 2 markers for desecrate and then stack on boss for mc's in the final phase.

Make sure for the empowered whilings u set up any hybrid cd's on your longest attempt there was no VE from your priest. Also ToF talent is very powerful on this fight for shadow as u can dot the desecrated weapon but not kill it and have a massive uptime. (shamans, priest VE/symbiosis tranq, boomkin tranq)

Avoiding the swirlies is very much a personal task of not standing in the mechanic you know is coming and is more than likey called over vent/mumble. Single target your own add then help others with as much cc as u can (void tendrils etc)

If you are 2 healing the aim is to have Garrosh dead after 2 empowered whirling corruptions. Kill the first lot of adds and ignore the 2nd set and just burn the boss as they dont hit much harder than the dark animus adds anyway provided they dont get empowered..

 

We found the MC's were the biggest annoyance and that having the raid stack on the boss for them in the final phase for aoe cc/silences was the way to go.

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Our team did it more or less similarly to Brew's team, with the exception of not killing any of the adds in the last phase. Usually when I'm picking up the 2nd set the boss is more or less dead.

 

@Seidus

First off, my team also runs with me (dk tank) and a warrior tank. The way we do P1 is pretty much identical to yours, except we always 2heal and send one of the healers to kill the other Engineer and never have any problms with anyone's survival. This goes as more DPS uptime on boss.

The first add set goes down pretty much with just the warrior's aoe/cleave thansk to the vengeance, and we use the Star to finish the second group. It helps if you have a monk in your team to put a Statue in its path so you can Gorefiends Grasp the adds somewhat safely to the ironstar. Any pushback will do too, ofc.

 

As for Whirling Corruption, our warrior tank usually pulls the boss further away to reduce the raid dmg and I spam glyphed Death Coils on the raid fueled by AMS. It is up for each Whirl so you can do this every time. Adds up to quite a nice amount of healing.

 

I hope I was of some help. :)

Edited by Ceraius

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for empowered whirl, my group fans out in about 1/5 of the room. garrosh is being tanked somewhere along the wall on the side with his throne and we are about 40-60 yards from him during whirl.

 

everyone is responsible for agroing the add that spawns from the one shot at them and as soon as melee get aggro, they are supposed to kite in towards the boss. the ranged turret theirs down and then get to garrosh to stack for mc. tanks just take whatever mistakes we have and bring them along for the rest of the ride.

 

the goal is to be perfect but favor speed over clean execution, the fight is finished despite your mistakes, you just cant make too many. before p3 no one should be near the middle. the p3 transition is key. it's going to be good if most adds are dead just as he hits 10%.

 

everyone needs to be running with him as he goes to the center. the second he gets to the center we hero and everyone pots. we usually get him to about 4% before he goes up above 20.

 

the first mc is easy because you can be stacked and everyone aoe's as the timer hits so they are almost instantly freed. the first whirl is also easy. tanks pick up all adds and everyone is on boss.

 

second mc is rough. extra adds can get in the way and mc is top priority even though he can be very low and get ppl excited. if everyone is stacked just cleave/aoe and go for broke regardless of how many adds it kills. stop the mcs and kill him before another whirl. if it looks bad mc needs to be close to cast, so ranged can use mit cds and spread way out to try to get the killing blow. rogues can smoke bomb evasion tank too.

 

he is most dangerous below 3%. people can get the impression that their individual dps is what is taking big chunks of his health off, but he is only dying because so many people are hitting him. in p3 every MC is the only priority.

 

once he as at 1% killing him is priority over survival. you're not going to overcome any mistakes youve made that have added up to this point. Don't try to buy time, just kill him or you weren't going to get it anyway.

 

the more sub 3% wipes you get, the more you will see how easy the first phases are. its just part of the fight. it's all about the transition to p3 and having everyone pot and nuke while garrosh powers up, so dont leave adds on caster dps at this point.

Edited by kitsu

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