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kika

Balance BrM weights for AMR

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Hi all,

So I've been messing around with AMR a little bit and I got to these weights, finding them pretty useful for all-around BrM tanking. I tried to focus on a balance build, not too much Mastery nor Critical.

Please give it a try and let me know if they worked for you and what you think.

YADIoHW.png

Of course on "Haste Soft Cap" put whatever you feel comfortable with. Also, I tried to do a 1.5xSta > Agi ratio.

If it helped and you are using it, you are welcome. If not, let me know why, just trying to help here.

edit: I just saw the typo on the topic of this post. If there is any mod out there please change "Balanca" for "Balance" (or tell me how I can change it xP)

Edited by kika

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What are you trying to accomplish with these weights?  What is your overall goal by using them?

 

I see you have crit and mastery equal.  Why? You just want to balance the 2 stats?

 

What kind of stamina are you looking for?  In my experience I have to put stam pretty low below mastery/crit etc just so it doesn't gem it. (though I will try your weights after this post)

 

Also, IMO Armor/dodge/parry/attack power shouldn't even be in that list since its nothing we want to gem/socket bonus/enchant or the like, even if it is lowest on priority.  Just get rid of those useless stats since haste after the cap is probably better than all of them for energy regen

 

 

(my weights for my own refrence when testing yours out)

 

edit: Going and trying them, I actually kinda like it.  I never though of doing a balance between mastery and crit.  I kinda just went for one or the other, but I may try this out to see how it works.  

 

The only thing I would change as I mentioned before is to get rid of those useless stats because for me, it was gemming for dodge socket bonuses which I didn't think was useful.

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Hi,

 

I have tried a similar build before, and all I can say, its pretty cool. It has more use in 25-mans, since in 10-mans Mastery is useless, therefore I still prefer to go full Agi/Crit over Mastery, but the build is definetely viable. :)

 

Adam

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This to me works more as an in-between build(for 10 man)

 

Crit build is "optimal" for 10man however, if you are undergeared or are having trouble with undergeared healers then more mastery can help to smooth your damage and essentially kill the boss.

 

The only problem i find with making changes like this is that it can be very boss specific. I have been raiding normal SoO on a BrM alt and did 5/14N at 503ilvl with not too much difficulty then got to Iron Jugg and i got destroyed. More mastery may have helped here for me undergearing the content however unless you have an abundance of gold then changing reforges for mastery/crit for the required bosses would be a bit overkill.

 

This build will work and you will kill bosses and have a good time but for the purposes of best for min maxing then i would have to disagree.

 

IMO At lower gear levels mastery can work in a similar fashion to healer spirit in the sense of enough until you feel comfortable then crit. The problem with many BrM is the skill cap required and the affect that a mastery reforge would have vs for example fixing a bad shuffle uptime. The shuffle fix would be worth alot more than a reforge to mastery. 

 

What i do personally is have different trinkets in my bags and swap them depending on the fight. I have stam/mastery/agi trinkets(some not current but ToT) and use this as my buffer for a hard boss rather than a full rebuild.

 

I wonder if Blizz will ever add a 2nd reforge spec much like main and off spec style feature. hmmm lol

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edit: I just saw the typo on the topic of this post. If there is any mod out there please change "Balanca" for "Balance" (or tell me how I can change it xP)

 

If you click edit on your post and go to full editor, you can alter the topic name. :)

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Hi all,

 

I'm going to try to answer everything here...

 

What are you trying to accomplish with these weights?  What is your overall goal by using them?

 

I see you have crit and mastery equal.  Why? You just want to balance the 2 stats?

 

What kind of stamina are you looking for?  In my experience I have to put stam pretty low below mastery/crit etc just so it doesn't gem it. (though I will try your weights after this post)

 

Also, IMO Armor/dodge/parry/attack power shouldn't even be in that list since its nothing we want to gem/socket bonus/enchant or the like, even if it is lowest on priority.  Just get rid of those useless stats since haste after the cap is probably better than all of them for energy regen

 

 

(my weights for my own refrence when testing yours out)

 

edit: Going and trying them, I actually kinda like it.  I never though of doing a balance between mastery and crit.  I kinda just went for one or the other, but I may try this out to see how it works.  

 

The only thing I would change as I mentioned before is to get rid of those useless stats because for me, it was gemming for dodge socket bonuses which I didn't think was useful.

 

1. I think this weights will help for those BrMs that are:

       a. In 25M and dont have any dmg taken problem. By balancing crit and mastery they can still maintain their damage taken smoothness, while making more dmg = guarding raid more

       b. In 10M but are currently undergeared (or with undergeared healers) and find themselves too spiky. 

       c. Since this is a more "forgiving" build, I find it very useful for those who are not used to BrM tanking, whether they are starting or, like me, is their off-spec and are using it as a backup for main tanks absences. 

 

2. Regarding stamina, I tried to make the weights in a way that will only replace Agility for Stamina when you would gain more than 150%, that is: 150 Stamina > 100 Agility. That was pretty easy to accomplish, the most tricky part was to maintain that ratio while not replacing Mastery/Crit/Haste/Exp/Hit. So if you check these weights, it will only gem for Stamina if you dont need to gem for Exp or Hit (most of the cases would be on the Blue sockets when you dont need to gem for hit)

 

3. I'm very glad you mention this. Those low weights are there for only one tiny reason: Socket Bonus. I absolutely hate to waste free stats even if it's something as unimportant as Dodge, ITS FREE! biggrin.png .. Since we are always gemming for secondary stats Mastery/Crit/Haste/Exp/Hit (we'll leave stamina out of this, since we are only gemming that when we capped exp and hit) we will always get a 320 value of sec stats on every socket (either 320 of a single stat or 160/160 of 2 different).

 

So, for example, on Krazimonk's situation: he saw his dodge going up, but it was only due to the socket bonuses that his gear has. Instead of gemming straight Haste/Crit/Mastery when the socket bonus is not that important, AMR tweaks it a little bit to maintain pretty much the same result but with that free stat. That being said I would take parry away, since that will never appear on our gear (i think) as a socket bonus. 

 

 

This to me works more as an in-between build(for 10 man)

 

Crit build is "optimal" for 10man however, if you are undergeared or are having trouble with undergeared healers then more mastery can help to smooth your damage and essentially kill the boss.

 

The only problem i find with making changes like this is that it can be very boss specific. I have been raiding normal SoO on a BrM alt and did 5/14N at 503ilvl with not too much difficulty then got to Iron Jugg and i got destroyed. More mastery may have helped here for me undergearing the content however unless you have an abundance of gold then changing reforges for mastery/crit for the required bosses would be a bit overkill.

 

This build will work and you will kill bosses and have a good time but for the purposes of best for min maxing then i would have to disagree.

 

IMO At lower gear levels mastery can work in a similar fashion to healer spirit in the sense of enough until you feel comfortable then crit. The problem with many BrM is the skill cap required and the affect that a mastery reforge would have vs for example fixing a bad shuffle uptime. The shuffle fix would be worth alot more than a reforge to mastery. 

 

What i do personally is have different trinkets in my bags and swap them depending on the fight. I have stam/mastery/agi trinkets(some not current but ToT) and use this as my buffer for a hard boss rather than a full rebuild.

 

I wonder if Blizz will ever add a 2nd reforge spec much like main and off spec style feature. hmmm lol

 

I completely agree with you, these weights are not targeting experience BrM monks, since they would already have their own methods of gemming, enchanting and reforging, and will probably adjust their gear to each boss. This is a more "all-around" build, you would do a good job but you will always have room for improvement. 

 

A 2nd refore spec sounds good.. but they are taking reforge out on next exp so its not worth having high hopes for that

 

If you click edit on your post and go to full editor, you can alter the topic name. smile.png

 

Thanks!! forum noob here tongue.png

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About dodge/parry/etc:  I still would rather the extra crit/mastery in my personal opinon.  But to each his own.  

 

I think the mastery/crit would do more than the extra dodge that we already get loads amount from with elusive brew.

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About dodge/parry/etc:  I still would rather the extra crit/mastery in my personal opinon.  But to each his own.  

 

I think the mastery/crit would do more than the extra dodge that we already get loads amount from with elusive brew.

 

I agree with you, I think at the end is all a matter of opinion and everyone should play the more comfortably they can. There is a very small difference on the gear when you make the changes I suggested

Edited by kika

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I think at the end is all a matter of opinion and everyone should play the more comfortably they can.

 

 

^ This is why I love tanking :D

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^ This is why I love tanking biggrin.png

 

"This is why i love monk* tanking biggrin.png

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"This is why i love monk* tanking biggrin.png

 

Monk tanking is great. There are several different ways to gear, but straight avoidance stats isn't really one of them. First, you get more avoidance by favoring Hit/Exp cap, Crit and Agility, and playing properly, than you do by stacking Dodge and Parry. Second, avoidance is generally a poor stat for tanks because it makes you more vulnerable to spike. Spike means sudden death. Druids depend on avoidance because they don't have any true active mitigation and are built around that model, but all the other tank classes are better off focusing on boosting their active mitigation.

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Monk tanking is great. There are several different ways to gear, but straight avoidance stats isn't really one of them. First, you get more avoidance by favoring Hit/Exp cap, Crit and Agility, and playing properly, than you do by stacking Dodge and Parry. Second, avoidance is generally a poor stat for tanks because it makes you more vulnerable to spike. Spike means sudden death. Druids depend on avoidance because they don't have any true active mitigation and are built around that model, but all the other tank classes are better off focusing on boosting their active mitigation.

 

Hi Tarazet,

 

A couple things regarding this:

 

I want to clarify to everyone that these weights are not straight avoidance focused. The main objective of using them is to balance crit and mastery, have a nice stamina/agility ratio and take advantage of socket bonuses (this is probably what is generating confusion, but is easily changed by erasing dodge/parry/armor weights). 

 

Second, IMHO I dont know if you can say that there is a general good or bad way of gearing for all tanks, since each class have their own unique way of playing. Take avoidance for example, as useless as it is for monks, its pretty much mandatory for warriors and druids (as you mentioned).

 

Anyhow I find monks very fun to play with (way better than druids, if I may add to this druid moderator trying to recruit monks :D )

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Druids don't stack avoidance.  They stack crit which grants them avoidance.

 

I think the only tanks that use avoidance stats are Warrior and DK.  though its all really moot since they are going away in WoD

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Druids don't stack avoidance.  They stack crit which grants them avoidance.

 

I think the only tanks that use avoidance stats are Warrior and DK.  though its all really moot since they are going away in WoD

 

Any tank can use avoidance stats, but even Warrior and DK prefer Mastery gear.

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The question of whether they can and should are two separate things.  Obviously they can stack intellect if they want. Does it mean they should?  Depends on the class, but as far as I know, if you're gemming avoidance as a druid or monk you're doing it wrong.

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if you're gemming avoidance as a druid or monk you're doing it wrong.

This is correct, monks and druids are very similar now in the sense that we use secondary stats(crit/mastery/haste) to manage the avoidance through the use of abilities rather than a straight % increase to avoidance through stats.

 

As for my final input on the "balance weights" i feel personally that it is not a great idea as the amount of mastery you would need to gain to make a noticeable difference in the damage you take needs to be quite a lot.

 

At lower gear levels people can be hard pressed to meet the hit/exp caps and then focus 1 stat let alone trying to balance 2 stats to the degree that it would help overall survival.

 

My advice would be if you are new and undergeared learn your rotation(on the dummies if need be) first focusing shuffle uptime and if needed get more haste to help you generate more chi to purify and shuffle. This will provide better survivability than tinkering with mastery/crit ratings. Then as a brand new tank if your healers are also undergeared stack mastery fully and forget crit. When you start to get some gear and the healers mention you are easy to heal then go full crit(all normal content and 10 man Heroic) or stay mastery if you are 25Man Heroic progressing.

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The question of whether they can and should are two separate things.  Obviously they can stack intellect if they want. Does it mean they should?  Depends on the class, but as far as I know, if you're gemming avoidance as a druid or monk you're doing it wrong.

 

Druid = yellow Crit gems.

Monk = anything but avoidance stats or Stamina.

Paladin = Haste or Mastery.

DK = Haste or Mastery.

Warrior = Mastery or Crit.

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The other ones look about right to me, but the DK and Warr parts I'd partially disagree with.

 

DK: Haste only affects rune regen and SoB stacks via autoattacks. I find haste mostly useless, since I'm resource capping often even with zero haste, and the SoB stacks are more "safely" acquired via avoidance which also contributes to tank damage through Riposte. Mastery is still king in terms of controllable damage reduction, but avoidance stacking also works. Its a small survivability loss and DPS increase. (Been thinking of trying it out myself but havent gotten there yet.)

 

Warr: This is only based on my co-tank in raids and what little I've read up on here on IV. Avoidance stacking also works very nicely. Its what my co-tank does and its barely noticeable in survivability and on top of that he does crazy damage. Almost on par with actual DPS players, on certain fights he's higher than some DPS players. And once again I agree on the mastery part.

Edited by Ceraius

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Hi,

 

I've also seen a lot of Protection Warriors and  Blood DK's going for mass Parry, because of Riposte obviously. This build actually makes sense, since over 50% Parry sounds awsome as mitigation and the DPS output it causes is insane. tongue.png

 

Edit: Owait, Ceraius has also posted the same above me. phr33 post count for me then.

Edited by Szensa

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      How to contact us:
      If you're interested in applying, you can visit our forums at www.spikeflail.com and put an application in on the appropriate forum. Please be sure to read all the stickies before applying; if you can't be bothered to read the stickies and follow application directions you probably will not be considered for a Trial. You also can chat with myself (Pallinn - Palin#1620 Btag) or any other Spike Flail officer (Marko#1989 and/or Nikolai#1962)
      Please be sure to read over all the information we've presented on our forum before making a decision to apply. If you think you meet our requirements and agree with our philosophy towards raiding, feel free to pursue it. However please don't belittle yourself by simply glancing over our information and tossing an application with no effort behind it. The application process is partly an attempt to weed our those who can't read stickies or form a proper sentence, so please remember that an application is your first impression, so try to make it as well crafted as possible.
      Thanks for reading and hope to hear from you soon!