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Jiilthanor

Black Blood over KTT? Destro?

21 posts in this topic

So, im STILL waiting for Immerseus to spew out my god damn trinket, but he never does. So ive been pre emptively simulating trinket options for Destruction. Im going Mastery, Crit, Haste btw.

So i have a normal KTT and a Warforged Black Blood. This simulates 308k dps. So i played a little around with AMR and simulated both Heroic Immerseus trinket with both options, KTT and Black Blood. KTT was 310k. And 315k with Black blood. I find this a little weird as people say that Immerseus trinket and KTT is BiS. So thats why im in here trying to get you guyses opinion.

This is my Armory: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/tarren-mill/Jiilthanor/advanced

P.S im rocking GoSac, and i NEVER change it out. Dont judge!

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The reason, why the people prefer KTT iver BBoY is, that you can use the KTT procc better, than  the Bboy-procc. BBoY is better(on paper), if you can use/time your CBs perfectly, but KTT has a lot more room for errors and movement.

Edited by Silverman

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I see your point. But now that ive used it for so long, i actually prefer Black Blood. It's something i grew into i guess. The more you use it the better you get at it. Sure i see where people are coming from indeed, i figured as much actually.

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The gap between the two become larger the deeper in to heroics you get. Imm, protecters, Nur, Sha, Galk, all play rather friendly to use BBoY. IJ, Sham, Malk, are fairly unfriendly. Spoils, Thok, Blackfuse, Paragons are almost impossible to get good damage out of BBoY unless you get very good RNG.

 

Imo, I'd rather do a consistent less DPS then become RNG's bitch. It's better for progression and better for repeating.

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Also, I do believe catching three CBs in a KTT proc works out better than catching three in a BBoY proc. And, like everyone has said, you have the extra freedom. If anything goes wrong on the end of the window with KTT, well you've probably already gotten two in, so it's not a drastic loss. If you lose a cast at the end of BBoY, you just lost the entire reason for wearing that trinket.

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Oh also BBoY drops off of Garrosh. So the best you can hope for (during progression) is a reg WF BBoY. Where as with KTT it's not THAT hard to get a heroic or HWF KTT. Even after getting it you're likely going to have at least a month or four of progression before getting to heroic Garrosh.

 

In perfect BiS, I could see HWF BBoY being better then HWF KTT because by the time you GET HWF BBoY then all of the other content is likely on lol farm and your raid is steamrolling most of the fights anyways, drastically taking down the amount of proc missing. But no matter what it is still going to be RNG on top of RNG, but when the stars a line it will be AMAZING. Wouldn't shock me to see 4-4.5mil opener CBs, that could be fun.

 

But, by the time you can GET H or HWF BBoY DPS doesn't really matter. It's all on farm anyways.

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Wouldn't the multi strike proc help out weigh any extra int from BBOY?

 

You have to factor in the extra static haste & mastery you get from BBoY as well.  If played perfectly its easy to see why BBoY would pull ahead.  The 5 stack of BBoY is equivalent to the int proc of KTT assuming both are same ilvl.  So if you can get 2 CBs off in the 6-10 stack range, they would be stronger than a KTT CB.  Its a big assumption though as many Heroic fights have numerous "MOVE RIGHT NOW" mechanics which can screw it up.  I think both are extremely close in terms of DPS. 

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For me with normal KTT multi strike makes up roughly 3-4% of my total dps. I don't see how the tiny bit of mastery and haste will make up that difference especially as the more mastery/crit you gain the higher damage multi strike will be.

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For me with normal KTT multi strike makes up roughly 3-4% of my total dps. I don't see how the tiny bit of mastery and haste will make up that difference especially as the more mastery/crit you gain the higher damage multi strike will be.

 I agree. Look, I'm a KTT man, but I can see how devastating a 10 stack BBoY CB can be. Its essentially a CB with 2 simultaneous KTT procs.  I have not done testing but by knowing this I can see that if played near perfectly and you could get 2 CBs at 7 and 10 stacks from the BBoY every time it proced how it could potentially outperform KTT. 

 

P.S A fully upgraded BBoY Normal version gives 1260 static haste and 840 static mastery.  Again, I love the KTT multi-strike proc, but that's not exactly a "tiny" amount of secondary stats.  I think if you play BBoY extremely well there is probably not a HUGE dps difference in using either similar ilvl trinket.

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I agree. Look, I'm a KTT man, but I can see how devastating a 10 stack BBoY CB can be. Its essentially a CB with 2 simultaneous KTT procs.  I have not done testing but by knowing this I can see that if played near perfectly and you could get 2 CBs at 7 and 10 stacks from the BBoY every time it proced how it could potentially outperform KTT. 

 

P.S A fully upgraded BBoY Normal version gives 1260 static haste and 840 static mastery.  Again, I love the KTT multi-strike proc, but that's not exactly a "tiny" amount of secondary stats.  I think if you play BBoY extremely well there is probably not a HUGE dps difference in using either similar ilvl trinket.

Heroic KTT multistrike damage is usually around 5-6%. It doesn't ever drop below that unless I am DPS'ing Thok and have to Gateway bitch. But honestly, I'll probably never pick up a BBoY and will pass it to a healer for offspec. KTT has been amazing for progression. Sure I'll never win the burst contest at the start of a fight, but I'll never die trying to eek out that last .2s of a cast while one of the many Siege mechanics that require you to move or die is happening.

As for how to handle BBoY, you basically want to go Chaos Bolt>Filler>Chaos Bolt>Instant (cast conflag as it is about to fall off).

Edited by Typecast

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I don't see any possible REAL SCENARIO where BBOY it's better than KTT.

 

KTT HWF as Typecast say, its aroynd 5,5% dps increase and the proc it's very sweet, BBOY it's huge indeed, but as Lock Destro, maxing it in a heroic fight where crazy stuff happens, it's nearly impossible.

 

1 badly used BBOY proc or a missed CB casted 0.1sec after proc expires it's enought to make KTT pulls ahead.

If BBOY was like Wushy in 5.2 with 20sec duration, certainly would be better, but now, it's kinda complicated for any hard-casters.

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Seeing this is a trinket thread , I'm going to hijack the post a little, lol

I have KTT normal ( fully upgraded) but should I equip LFR PBI or equip LFR BBoY?

I know BBoY gives out more int but but when equipping PBI it gave me slightly more mastery?.

Edited by Nalar

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Have PBI no matter what version.

 

KTT and BBoY should be your debatable second choice.  I like KTT personally, but BBoY is fantastic as Affliction.

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Same ilvl id say use bboy. But a hc ktt is better than a normal bboy.

You can just go mastery then haste and do fine. Don't sacrifice too much to hit 14.880k haste. Mastery is your best friend.

Work on proper fury management and getting a feel for proper soulfire usage and you'll see better results each time. A 1k haste swing isn't going to do much in the grand scheme of things.

Edit: didnt see you were goblin so the breakpoint is around 14.2k? Still not worth it imo especially as you will want to be destro on most progression fights.

Edited by Liquidsteel

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I still use KTT as Demo, yes, but the fact that I've never received a BBoY to play around with may or may not be a factor there. tongue.png

 

Still, I think I might keep the KTT as Demo because it's a complex enough spec to begin with without worrying about making sure I'm maximizing BBoY.

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Alot of good pointer's here Guys. got Dark Shamans and Nazgrim HC Down this week, so will probably get KTT HC Soon enough. Might Switch out my trusted BBoY WF for that. Hopefully that damn Immerseus Biatch will give me PBI soon aswell. Probably the only caster in the world that hasn't gotten one yet xD 29 Kills and Counting, he's not friendly.

But yeah, i'd say to anyone that wants to try BBoY to try it for them selves, it's either a love or hate relationship i guess. I personally love mine, but the fact that PBI hasn't dropped yet may have something to do with the fact that im loving mine. Had 502 LFR Trinkets before i finally got 2 SoO trinkets.

Only fights i've personally seen wasted BBoY procs yet are Sha of Pride HC, Iron Juggernaut HC (very few though) and Malkorok HC (only had a few tries yet, but i can see allready some wasted procs due to alot of moving at times)

Keep in mind we're only 8/14 HC, and that the later Normal fights also see some waste, but that's not allways BBoY Specific. All in all i personally find it to be a good trinket, and like i said earlier if you get the chance to play with it, definetly do so.

Feel free to add other fights you feel would have some proc wastes, specially for the later fights i haven't gotten to yet. Maybe it convinces me wink.png

Edited by Jiilthanor

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29 immers kills eh? Pretty good considering you can only have 14 unless you're counting lfr and flex. But I feel the pain I have 11 kills between normal and heroic. Seen it drop twice and lost them both.

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Only fights i've personally seen wasted BBoY procs yet are Sha of Pride HC, Iron Juggernaut HC (very few though) and Malkorok HC (only had a few tries yet, but i can see allready some wasted procs due to alot of moving at times)

Keep in mind we're only 8/14 HC, and that the later Normal fights also see some waste, but that's not allways BBoY Specific. All in all i personally find it to be a good trinket, and like i said earlier if you get the chance to play with it, definetly do so.

Feel free to add other fights you feel would have some proc wastes, specially for the later fights i haven't gotten to yet. Maybe it convinces me wink.png

For me it's 2 things that make KTT stand out for destro. Firstly the fights later on have more places where you can't CB when you'd want to and I feel it hurts BBOY more. Can also be just my feeling, seeing a 10 stack BBOY without a chance to use it just feels worse than KTT proc wink.png But as Locky especially said, the later fights will make you move more meaning more chances to lose high BBOY stacks. And obviously for low stacks the same level KTT is a bigger proc.

The 2nd reason is getting rid of the damn pet tongue.png It's also not a huge deal, but I've never quite enjoyed watching where the bugger has now managed to go hide.

I'm in no way saying that BBOY would be bad. I use it over KTT for the times when I go affliction (=single target and short enough). Just saying that for destro I think KTT is better. The margin is small enough that if there had been another person needing KTT I wouldn't have picked it up after having BBOY (and PBI obv).

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Alot of good pointer's here Guys. got Dark Shamans and Nazgrim HC Down this week, so will probably get KTT HC Soon enough. Might Switch out my trusted BBoY WF for that. Hopefully that damn Immerseus Biatch will give me PBI soon aswell. Probably the only caster in the world that hasn't gotten one yet xD 29 Kills and Counting, he's not friendly.

But yeah, i'd say to anyone that wants to try BBoY to try it for them selves, it's either a love or hate relationship i guess. I personally love mine, but the fact that PBI hasn't dropped yet may have something to do with the fact that im loving mine. Had 502 LFR Trinkets before i finally got 2 SoO trinkets.

Only fights i've personally seen wasted BBoY procs yet are Sha of Pride HC, Iron Juggernaut HC (very few though) and Malkorok HC (only had a few tries yet, but i can see allready some wasted procs due to alot of moving at times)

Keep in mind we're only 8/14 HC, and that the later Normal fights also see some waste, but that's not allways BBoY Specific. All in all i personally find it to be a good trinket, and like i said earlier if you get the chance to play with it, definetly do so.

Feel free to add other fights you feel would have some proc wastes, specially for the later fights i haven't gotten to yet. Maybe it convinces me wink.png

 

Immerseus: Swirl, having to run to assigned area to get adds, having to run back to regroup

 

Protectors: not standing in brew

 

Norushen: dat beam

 

Sha: Prison, Banish, Running to projection, Running to stack

 

IJ: EVERYTHING THAT EXISTS

 

Shaman: Storms, Falling Ash, Adds running toward you if someone gets agro

 

Nazgrim: Dat Heroic Shockwave

 

Malkorok: Knock-up, Having to soak, Moving from Arcing Smash, Moving from breath

 

Spoils: Pheremones, Windbomb, Lotus line thing, Matter Scramble, the mini-mogu that stun

 

Thok: all the @$#%ing time

 

Siegecrafter: What is there to NOT have to move out/run from?

 

Paragons: Even the normal mode mechanics mean having to move to not stand in amber, not be caught alone with blue catalyst, not being near people with red catalyst,  not standing in yellow catalyst, not being caught by Whirling, moving for Insane Calculation, getting Mesmerized, etc.

 

Garrosh: Interim phase transitions, having to run at the start of those, Annihilate, spreading for Empowered Whirling, spreading for Empowered Desecrate, etc.

 

So many opportunities to be interrupted that just make it not worth it.

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