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MickeyCee

DPS on Garrosh... CD woes, macros, help?

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I am having a hell of a time managing my CDs in general, and on Garrosh it's just pathetic. Seems like every time my PBI or KTT procs, I am unable to cast CBs, like being pulled into a transition, or running somewhere and missing valuable time, or worst case simply having no embers left. I also feel like I am not able to maximize the adds adequately for cleaves on Garrosh, which never lines up with my procs anyway.

 

I am using Elvui for aurabars, so I see the different procs when they are happening, and I am using weakauras as well, as they are set up to give me graphics when the trinkets are proccing, and to track their cool downs. My professions are tailoring and enchanting (though I am considering dropping enchanting, even though it makes/saves gold).

 

I've tried the mouseover macro for Garrosh but it seems to rarely work. I have better luck just using FNB incinerates (refreshing ROF and Immolate) to generate embers, then casting havoc on garrosh, and tabbing through adds for SB or CB. Post transition I am casting havoc on garrosh while casting CBs on the desecrated weapons (since RL insists I deal with them).  None of which ever lines up with the tinkets. 

 

My armory: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/stormrage/Nitromethane/advanced

 

I admit to being a newbie - I rolled this toon this summer, after having played a warrior since the start of wrath. But in comparison to the warrior, I have lousy line-up control of CDs. By the end of the fight despite having 400K+ dps in the first phase, I am down to about 217K, being number 3 or 4 in a slightly lesser geared 10 man make up. The GM has already given me grief over my dps, insisting it should be top of the meters.

 

What can I do to better manage this fight?

 

Addons

Macros

Reforging

Changing gear

Using lower level on use trinkets.

Willing to try anything.

 

 

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We need logs to really give you answers. The fight is a bit of a cluster fuck. Just do the mechanics, screw your procs. IF you have a proc when you can use it, cool. If not, don't worry about it.

 

 

The GM has already given me grief over my dps, insisting it should be top of the meters.

 

 

It depends, if you're stacking the adds up in phase one and burning them down then yes, you should be AT or near the top on damage. If you're not or if there are a lot of AoE in your group or if you're using the Iron Star to kill adds, then it's just like any other fight but with a lot of movement.

 

Need logs to be able to really help.

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I'll find out if there's logs for our attempts so far. My dps during the phase with the adds/iron stars is top of the meters, and then some. But that's only one small part of the fight.... or maybe time just dialates after that phase because it gets so intense.

 

We're doing attempts tonight - I'll get setup to grab logs myself if there's none being collected already.

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Seems like every time my PBI or KTT procs, I am unable to cast CBs, like being pulled into a transition, or running somewhere and missing valuable time, or worst case simply having no embers left.

Willing to try anything.

Being pulled into a transition isn't really up to you alone. It's about your raid Dps. Running somewhere is good if you're following mechanics. Running somewhere just to run somewhere is bad. If you know you gotta be somewhere, preventively head there so you won't have to worry about it later. However don't put yourself in a position where you are causing stress on the raid. Not having enough embers is definitely a gameplay issue that you can work on. That's a type of situation that you definitely don't want to be in.

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Locky is pretty much on point.  Don't worry about procs so much when you are learning it.  Get comfortable with the flow of the fight and as you get more experience with just knowing the fight, then you can focus on tighter execution and proc handling. In general on Garrosh, your job is (assuming you aren't on engineers and doing the stack strat):

  • Phase 1: Fire and brimstone, immolate/conflag/incinerate, keep rain of fire down on 2 or more targets.  When targets start nearing shadowburn range, havoc the boss and start spamming shadowburn on those targets. When Garrosh goes up in the air to do his RP at the end of the phase, avoid using shadowburn on him since the overkill you do in phase 1 doesn't carry over to phase 2.  The exception to this is probably havoc shadowburning from garrosh to a shaman.
  • Phase 2: When weapon is about to finish casting or mind controls are about to go out, throw a pre-emptive rain of fire.  If you get mind controlled, cast Unbound Will to quickly remove 20% hp and get broken quicker (do this immediately, if you are late, you might die to spells in flight).  When you need to kill empowered corruption adds, throw a rain of fire on the location of the one that spawns on you, conflag it when it spawns to get initial threat, then kill it.  At the end of phase 3, any health removed from Garrosh sub-10% is removed from his phase 3 health pool, so you can dump your embers into shadowburns sub-10%.
  • Phase 3: Same as phase 2 but you should try to immolate the empowered weapons if they are in range (more embers means more shadowburns on the boss).  Cast your Doomguard during this phase.  Try to avoid using area spells (rain of fire, fire and brimstone) if you are ignoring any corruption adds and mind controls are up.
  • Transitions: Make sure you get the damage reduction buff, no reason not to.  When you are moving around for the 2nd half of the transitions, try to be within 5 yards of the boss, and only move enough to get out of the conical damage Garrosh does.
If you ever have to interrupt mind controls, try to time your interrupts as late in the cast as your are comfortable with.  Chaos bolt with procs.  Don't be afraid to hold havoc to conflag/incinerate/shadowburn from the weapons to the boss.  Your goal for the weapons for strats where everyone isn't just stacked on the boss is to ensure the weapon is destroyed before the next weapon comes out, so you might find yourself with just leaving an immolate on it early on then switch to it when you have 6-10 seconds on the next weapon.

 

As for macro suggestions, really only use three macros for most fights as destro.

#showtooltip Immolate
/cast [@mouseover,harm,nodead][harm,nodead] Immolate
#showtooltip Shadowburn
/stopcasting [mod:alt]
/cast [@mouseover,harm,nodead][harm,nodead] Shadowburn
#showtooltip Havoc
/cast [mod:alt,@target,harm,nodead][mod:ctrl,@focus,harm,nodead][@boss1,harm,nodead] Havoc
When dealing with mouseover macros, sometimes it feels buggy and it doesn't cast because often your UI isn't rendering correctly over the default nameplates.  You can use the tooltip to determine if you have a valid mouseover target or you could create a weakaura for your mouseover target.

 

As for addons, TimeToDie, Weakauras, and Bigwigs/DBM are all I really use, nothing fancy with either for this fight.

 

I have lousy line-up control of CDs.

 

You are using PBI and KTT/FCR, so it is really simple (BBoY is what really becomes more of an annoyance).  Ask yourself these questions:

  • Is PBI up and going to be up so I can safely dump 2 chaos bolts before it expires? If yes, cast Dark Soul.
  • Is KTT/FCR up and going to be up so I can safely dump 2 chaos bolts before it expires? If yes and you know PBI isn't about to come off its ICD (115 seconds), then cast Dark Soul, otherwise, wait for PBI.
  • Do I have a crit buff active (Dark Soul or a T16 proc) and less than 7 seconds left on immolate? If yes, cast immolate.
Edited by Typecast
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Pretty much just read what was posted above as it covers just about everything that was wrong in both attempts. Havoc uptime is low. Lacking havoc shadowburns to boss (when garrosh is above 20%) and from boss (when below 20%). No shadowburns on weapons or shamans (assuming other adds are dying to iron star, otherwise them too). DSI being casted randomly instead of lined up with trinkets. Two deaths in the second attempt hurts.

[02:04:06.536] Garrosh Hellscream's Touch of Y'Shaarj fades from Nitromethane
[02:04:06.536] Chahunda killed Nitromethane
[02:04:06.536] Chahunda Bladestorm Nitromethane *119856* (O: 3865)
[02:04:06.930] Nitromethane dies
We don't have a warrior, so I'm not sure if that last swing of bladestorm is avoidable. If you are dying a lot to bladestorm though, tell your warrior to stop it, or use a defensive cooldown as you get near 20%.

[02:08:00.200] Minion of Y'Shaarj hits Nitromethane 47331 (A: 26301)
[02:08:10.500] Minion of Y'Shaarj hits Nitromethane 282892 (A: 55437)
[02:08:14.552] Minion of Y'Shaarj hits Nitromethane 351232 (A: 66863)
[02:08:17.592] Minion of Y'Shaarj hits Nitromethane 147393 (O: 234299)
[02:08:18.134] Nitromethane dies
This second death can easily be avoided. You'll notice in the death log that the damage ramped up, meaning one add was killed near the one beating on you. Just make sure the adds are separated when they die so they don't buff others that are around to the point where they kill someone (in this case, it killed you on the first stack). Edited by Typecast

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Thanks for all the advice, last night in a random pug I finally downed Garrosh!

 

Logs: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-wt64852mbcaezvzr/dashboard/?s=6327&e=6881

 

The shadowburn part I just don't get; I am having real trouble with the logistics of using it. I got a macro that supposedly you can hover over the add while focused on your target, and with havoc, cleave shadowburn. I suck at it.

 

I feel like I am really limping along... my biggest issues being lining stuff up and using shadowburn.  

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Thanks for all the advice, last night in a random pug I finally downed Garrosh!

 

Logs: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-wt64852mbcaezvzr/dashboard/?s=6327&e=6881

 

The shadowburn part I just don't get; I am having real trouble with the logistics of using it. I got a macro that supposedly you can hover over the add while focused on your target, and with havoc, cleave shadowburn. I suck at it.

 

I feel like I am really limping along... my biggest issues being lining stuff up and using shadowburn.  

 

My best advice to you is to hit the dummies and practice using your mouseover macro with the execute-range dummy.  Just practice it until you're comfortable.  Does your macro not work?

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My best advice to you is to hit the dummies and practice using your mouseover macro with the execute-range dummy.  Just practice it until you're comfortable.  Does your macro not work?

 

I didn't realize there was an "execute" range dummy. Going to try that right now.

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Well, apparently my macro does not light up like I expected it to, when the mouse is hovered over a target low enough to shadowburn.

 

#showtooltip Shadowburn
/cast [@mouseover, exists] shadowburn
 
It looks different than the one above, and this is the one my GM told me to use. Go figure...

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So I replaced it with the one above.. and it doesn't light up either. What's up with that? I hover my mouse over the execute dummy with full embers, and I get no lit-up icon. The normal shadowburn one is lit up when it's ready to use. But it does work if I use it. Of course... when in the raid, I am hovering over targets looking for one I can shadowburn and can't find them. I've been looking for that icon to light up.

 

Sorry if that's all retarded - I am new to casting - I rolled this toon this summer after returning to the game following an 18 month hiatus. Previous to that I was a fairly accomplished warrior.

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I hear you there in the warrior department!

 

I'm pretty sure only your main selected target will cause Shadowburn to start flashing for you.  For mouse-overs you just have to know the range, or take advantage of a nameplate addon that makes it obvious when they're executable.

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If you want it to show the shadowburn icon when you mouseover things, then what you want to do is remove the word shadowburn from the showtooltip line (and don't assign it an icon).  If you are looking for it to light up the borders for mouseover targets like it does for your actual target, then you will need to create a weakaura for it (not possible through the macro system).

 

Personally for an indicator, I have a weakaura that shows a shadowburn icon if my mouseover target is alive, an enemy, and under 20% health (which you can't do with macros).  If something needs to be monitored (cooldowns, unit checks for spells, etc), then I'll create a weakaura for it.  I really don't use my bars for anything more than keybinds for casted spells.

Edited by Typecast
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Personally for an indicator, I have a weakaura that shows a shadowburn icon if my mouseover target is alive, an enemy, and under 20% health (which you can't do with macros).  If something needs to be monitors (cooldowns, unit checks for spells, etc), then I'll create a weakaura for it.  I really don't use my bars for anything more than keybinds for casted spells.

 

Could you export that setup for weakauras please? That sounds like exactly what I need.

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Could you export that setup for weakauras please? That sounds like exactly what I need.

 

http://pastebin.com/zg6t3xvE

 

Some things to know about it.  Shows a shadowburn icon if I have a valid mouseover target (checks harm/nodead).  I use this as my indicator for all my mouseover spells to ensure I have a valid mouseover target.  It will light up when the target is below 20%, the target is in casting distance, I have an ember, as well as existing, being non-friendly, and not dead.

Edited by Typecast

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Thanks for the settings!

 

I am not able to make it light up at the dummies. When I tab to the execute dummy, my regular shawdowburn tooltip is lit up. HOwever, the weakaura's shadowburn glow never appears when I am mousing over that dummy. And it's sure not glowing... is there some further config I have to do with that icon to make it glow? 

Edited by MickeyCee

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Thanks for the settings!

 

I am not able to make it light up at the dummies. When I tab to the execute dummy, my regular shawdowburn tooltip is lit up. HOwever, the weakaura's shadowburn glow never comes on. And it's sure not glowing... is there some further config I have to do with that icon to make it glow? 

 

Good catch, messed up on the conditional when I was removing other checks against some globals that I use.  reuploaded:

 

http://pastebin.com/zg6t3xvE

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Works as described - very cool & this makes it easy - It's what I was expecting from the mouseover. I have found out that the mouseover works, you just don't see it. This is better, so THANK YOU!

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Don't let your GM/RL tell you something about "how amazingly OP warlocks are and how they should pull like a gazillion DPS on every fight". I hear that from my RL all the time. f.e. last time on Spoils 10 hc "dude you are doing only 350k dps...you are playing your warlock wrong...its such an OP class...i've seen method-warlocks pulling like 800-900k on spoils".  While it's true, that there is room for improvement, warlocks are not that OP, if they play without extremecheesing.

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Don't let your GM/RL tell you something about "how amazingly OP warlocks are and how they should pull like a gazillion DPS on every fight". I hear that from my RL all the time. f.e. last time on Spoils 10 hc "dude you are doing only 350k dps...you are playing your warlock wrong...its such an OP class...i've seen method-warlocks pulling like 800-900k on spoils".  While it's true, that there is room for improvement, warlocks are not that OP, if they play without extremecheesing.

 

 

http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/

 

Also

 

http://worldoflogs.com/rankings/players/US-EU/Siege_of_Orgrimmar/Spoils_of_Pandaria/10H/dps/

 

Warlock is VERY powerful right now. Granted, the final word depends on a lot of factors but generally speaking the warlock in your raid should be in the upper-top part of your raid DPS. Assuming the warlock isn't on a crap job and is around the same ilvl/skill level. If they are not in the upper levels of DPS, then there is a very good chance that they are doing something wrong.

 

If you are told your DPS isn't up to par, then investigate. Look at DPSbot, look at logs, look at the upper level ranks, use the tools that are available to you to check to see if you really are on the low end or if your RL/GM is just dumb/wrong. 

 

I also always log. Who has the log running can effect the logs a LOT so I always log on my own so that I have true proof of what I did/what happened to me.

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I don't deny, that we are very strong, perhaps the strongest class at the moment. But thats not my point. My point is, that a lot of people have this ubergodimage of the warlock, who does at least 2-3 times the dmg of the nextbest-dd (f.e. 800k vs. 300k).

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I don't deny, that we are very strong, perhaps the strongest class at the moment. But thats not my point. My point is, that a lot of people have this ubergodimage of the warlock, who does at least 2-3 times the dmg of the nextbest-dd (f.e. 800k vs. 300k).

 

Sometimes you can attribute it to the strat being used by the guild or really good proc lineups. Sometimes your strats are terrible, or you don't pad hard enough, the data is being collected (out of range), or you just are not amazing.  I will never get a good rank on IJ or nazgrim because of our positioning, I will never rank on malkorok because I'm the trusted person that gets to soak the huge gaps at range, and I'm more concerned with ensuring our kill so my DPS uptime tanks because i have to babysit my gateway on thok.  I'm also far from amazing.

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I don't deny, that we are very strong, perhaps the strongest class at the moment. But thats not my point. My point is, that a lot of people have this ubergodimage of the warlock, who does at least 2-3 times the dmg of the nextbest-dd (f.e. 800k vs. 300k).

 

800k on Spoils is like pulling out all the stops.  Assuming your RL expects that you should be doing 800k, I would say they're being extremely unfair.

 

I don't consider myself to be a bad or even an average warlock.  We started Spoils last week and on my most solid attempt I was pushing close to 500k after 4 minutes.  Now if we had uber heals and tanks all around and we opened up a majority of the boxes to start AoE'ing off the bat, sure, I can see pulling 800k.  I don't think that's the common strat though.  If my RL told me that night that I wasn't doing as well as some of the world first warlocks, I would have politely told them to stick it somewhere else.

 

Your point though said that warlocks aren't OP, but then you say it's only because of cheese mechanics... but then you say we're perhaps the strongest class at the moment.

 

At the end of the day, you know you can do better, you *are* doing fine, and your RL is being ridiculous.

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Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't Raidbots off of WoL? If this is true I wouldn't really use it as judgement since WoL is very strange at times; Especially with later Heroics. Many times I've seen heroics being counted as normal or flex being counted as heroic, it's all weird. Not sure if this affects Raidbots enough but thought I would mention it.

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