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Zamphire

[MW] To 4pc or not to 4pc

17 posts in this topic

So right now I have 4pc due to flex. As you can see in my armory I have one 553 tier piece (chest) and the head, shoulders and legs are flex. Recently I've gotten a 553 legs and head piece. Is it worth it to break my 4pc for the upgrade in iLvls? Right now the Mist Wave from 4pc is only doing about 4-5% of my overall healing. Could I expect that much of an increase from equipping the 553s over the 540s? That 5% mist wave is completely free healing from the spell I use most... so it sounds like a great thing and definitely something I want, but is it worth the iLvls?

 


Here's my guild's WoL from Wednesday's raid so you guys can check my healing http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/01r7s5ngwzdr733k/

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It would depend entirely on which pieces you are replacing.

 

The shoulder and legs of the mistweaver tier are spirit/mastery which is crap.

 

if you were to replace those pieces with crit pieces then i would(and do) break the 4 piece.

 

You are healing with ok numbers but i did notice you have been using enveloping mists quite alot instead of uplift. Whilst i have been known to use enveloping mist do dump chi at times the main spell i use would be uplift. It should also allow you to do more overall healing.

However if it i working for you then perhaps try to weave in uplifts and see if it affect or enhance  your healing and go from there. Just dont forget to use TFT.

 

You are also geared very haste heavy. Are you having any mana issues? Other than mana tea crit also will enhance your output. I would probably drop back a haste breakpoint and go for more crit at your current gear level.

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It would depend entirely on which pieces you are replacing.

 

You are healing with ok numbers but i did notice you have been using enveloping mists quite alot instead of uplift. Whilst i have been known to use enveloping mist do dump chi at times the main spell i use would be uplift. It should also allow you to do more overall healing.

However if it i working for you then perhaps try to weave in uplifts and see if it affect or enhance  your healing and go from there. Just dont forget to use TFT.

 

You are also geared very haste heavy. Are you having any mana issues? Other than mana tea crit also will enhance your output. I would probably drop back a haste breakpoint and go for more crit at your current gear level.

 

If I follow Mr. Robot's advice (My weights are Intellect 1.0, Spell Power 0.85, Crit 0.8, Haste (to cap) 0.6, Spirit (to cap) 0.1) it tells me to drop my shoulders, and equip the 540 Shoulders of the Rolling Inferno, and drop my pants and equip my Pennyroyal Leggings, so those are the pieces I would probably be replacing.

 

I'll try to cut back on EM usage a bit, I've only been using it when people hit below 60% health and save Surging for when they hit around 35%. I spam uplift just about every chance I get when more then two people have taken damage, but I could probably use it a bit more.

 

I am geared highly in haste. I had Mr. Robot set to the +5 breakpoint on renewing mists. I haven't had any mana issues, in fact I feel like I'm balanced perfectly with mana. Most fights I end at around 30% mana with a few of the more healer heavy ones (Galakras) ending me at about 10% or less. If you think it'll make a bigger impact though I"ll be happy to drop down to +4 breakpoint and add some more crit in there, see how that turns out.

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Yeah those two gear pieces will be better because of the crit and haste they provide over mastery vs spirit.

 

Personally i would drop down a haste breakpoint. Whilst you arent having mana issues more crit healing will give your heals that extra punch as well as more mana.

 

I would probably also drop the glyph of detox and replace it with the surging mist glyph so you can spam during meta procs.

 

EM is mainly for a tank heal and an uplift or two would be more beneficial than a EM in almost all cases.

 

Like i said your healing numbers are fine for the content you are on but to optimise/maximise i would try for higher uplift. It should be your highest healing spell in almost all occasions.

 

You are also running Chi torpedo as a talent. From all the logs i have seen there is no circumstance where chi torpedo will outperform RJW or Xuen.

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Yeah those two gear pieces will be better because of the crit and haste they provide over mastery vs spirit.

 

Personally i would drop down a haste breakpoint. Whilst you arent having mana issues more crit healing will give your heals that extra punch as well as more mana.

 

I would probably also drop the glyph of detox and replace it with the surging mist glyph so you can spam during meta procs.

 

EM is mainly for a tank heal and an uplift or two would be more beneficial than a EM in almost all cases.

 

Like i said your healing numbers are fine for the content you are on but to optimise/maximise i would try for higher uplift. It should be your highest healing spell in almost all occasions.

 

You are also running Chi torpedo as a talent. From all the logs i have seen there is no circumstance where chi torpedo will outperform RJW or Xuen.

 

Thanks a lot, I'll definitly give your suggestions a try.

 

As far as Chi Torpedo, i change out that talent in every fight.The only reason it's on right now is because we ended at Spoils last night. I use it on spoils because there's a lot of moving, and since I'm doing a lot of rolling through people why not have the free heal going on at the same time? I use RJW in instances where we can stack a lot, Norushen, Sha of Pride, Galakras. I use Xuen on cases where there's a big burst phase and a lot of healing is needed, Iron Jug, Malk, Nazgrim.

 

Also, thank you for taking the time to reply to this. I posted this same topic on the official forums last night and it still hasn't gotten a single response.

Edited by Zamphire

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I use a 4-peice on my MW monk, its pretty efficient for my play style. I wouldn't say its the best but for not having to do anything it heals decently. I could definitely see why you would want more crit per uplift but there is different ways to play and still be good. I am going to be testing this theory that crit gear>four piece (because of the mastery on the pieces) if it is that much of a difference. But there are fights where my mastery orbs are my third top heal, and then you include the set bonuses on top of that. I can try to break it down but if anyone has questions or rebuttals please call me out.

 

Mastery in the tier pieces give a higher percentage chance to drop orbs, the orbs that are dropped also give a shield (2-piece) when picked up by an ally which gives you a small advantage (the healing for this bonus varies on the fight). The 4-piece also gives Mist Wave which will heal a low ally for a certain percentage (for me its about 2-3 million a fight).

 

Here is an example on my first Heroic Malkorok kill (probably a bad example, I know there is other variables that come into play):

http://worldoflogs.com/reports/6urph49szo23zwnf/sum/healingDone/?s=4040&e=4356

 

Yu'lons barrier (2 piece) healed for about 5%.

Gift of the Serpent (mastery orbs) healed for almost 11%.

Mist wave (4 piece) healed for about 2% (2.5 million) I think its broken and doesn't include shields.

 

So the question is, do you think that the crit rating over powers the potential healing that you do with these spells. Your gear that you currently have decides that factor. Also, mentioning that these spells require nothing of you to do, they just heal (in a sense). Uplift over heals almost every time you cast it (unless raid is like almost dead). My personal preference is let it do less healing and let the game do some of the healing. Can't wait to get my cloak too tongue.png.

Edited by Albomonk

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So the question is, do you think that the crit rating over powers the potential healing that you do with these spells. Your gear that you currently have decides that factor. Also, mentioning that these spells require nothing of you to do, they just heal (in a sense). Uplift over heals almost every time you cast it (unless raid is like almost dead). My personal preference is let it do less healing and let the game do some of the healing. Can't wait to get my cloak too tongue.png.

It will depend heavily on the gear that you have. Given the way that the amplification trinkets work it makes the value of crit even higher than before. I know not many monks are as lucky as me but with a Heroic double amp setup i get 18% increased crit heals and dps. This will therefore make crit more valuable than it already was.

 

 

But there are fights where my mastery orbs are my third top heal, and then you include the set bonuses on top of that. I can try to break it down but if anyone has questions or rebuttals please call me out.

This topic has been flogged to death so many times now its brutal.

 

In short: The mastery itself is fine and like you state actually can provide a fair amount of heals. But the mastery "stat" is what sucks. The amount of mastery required to make a notable difference to the orb rate is so ridiculous you never would go for mastery. 

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It will depend heavily on the gear that you have. Given the way that the amplification trinkets work it makes the value of crit even higher than before. I know not many monks are as lucky as me but with a Heroic double amp setup i get 18% increased crit heals and dps. This will therefore make crit more valuable than it already was.

 

This topic has been flogged to death so many times now its brutal.

 

In short: The mastery itself is fine and like you state actually can provide a fair amount of heals. But the mastery "stat" is what sucks. The amount of mastery required to make a notable difference to the orb rate is so ridiculous you never would go for mastery. 

 

Of course that would be dumb. I am not saying stack mastery, that wouldn't make sense. But mastery itself does provide a really good amount of healing if the raid group would be competent to use them. Also, the mastery + the 4 peice set bonus, I personally think, work better for me than say anyone else. I haven't had the chance to use my bis trinkets just yet though :p

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Also, the mastery + the 4 peice set bonus, I personally think, work better for me than say anyone else.

Mastery as a stat doesnt work for anyone.

 

Here is some Math taken from the Dev's.

 

Since Mistweavers heal from such a significant variety of spells, some of which tick very fast, it’s not purely a raw chance per heal event. The chance displayed on your Mastery tooltip is the base chance, but there’s a multiplier on ticks from various overly frequent sources:

 

Gift of the Serpent proc scalars:

• Renewing Mist: 0.15

• Chi Wave: 0.25

• Zen Sphere (Periodic): 0.25

• Zen Sphere (Detonate): 0.15

• Chi Burst: 0.15

• Soothing Mist: 0.3

• Soothing Mist (Statue): 0.15

• Enveloping Mist: 0.2

• Uplift: 0.25

• Revival: 0.15

• Eminence (Self and Xuen): 0.2

• Eminence (Statue): 0.1

• Chi Torpedo: 0.15

• Spinning Crane Kick: 0.1

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The 4pc is really good though.  Even with double amp, its free healing to people who need it.  Personally, I'd go for it.

 

Also, Albomonk, you're not even at the 9k breakpoint. You're missing some haste.  Might want to check that.

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The 4pc is really good though.  Even with double amp, its free healing to people who need it.  Personally, I'd go for it.

 

Also, Albomonk, you're not even at the 9k breakpoint. You're missing some haste.  Might want to check that.

 

I know, I got a new belt and didn't get to reforge correctly yet.

Edited by Albomonk

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Hello Monks!

I've been reading through here for months and finally am brave enough to post. Be kind smile.png

 

This particular question is one I'm having difficulty finding a solid "YES" or "NO" answer to. For me, I'm trying to determine if the 4% Mist Wave chance will in fact be less, equal to, or more than the crit (in terms of heals) I currently have in my build. If the answer is a resounding yes, then I'll drop the 2 pieces of Warforged and put on my Normal Mode 4pc and not whine. (I hope) I can't decide if I want to wait until I have a couple of heroic tier pieces over the normal to use it THEN or not.

 

Further, I find I'm constantly going back and forth between the 6141 and 9158 Haste BP's to try and see just if having the extra 3k haste is a heals increase or not. And I'm not 100% convinced it is and I think that it is because something in the math is being lost on me. I'm not a theorycrafter but I'm also not a dummy. I just am having difficulty seeing/understanding where that 3k haste is beneficial. Is it more an impact on the 4pc 4% chance (increasing it maybe as Renewing Mist moves a bit faster?)? Is it a pump for when I use Spinning Crane Kick (or RJW in this case)? Is it shining somewhere else and I'm too blind to see it? The reason I go back down to 6141 is that I try to push for even more crit and even a bit of mastery (as my group is very good about our little balls of health)..but if by doing that I'm hurting my group I won't do it anymore.

 

These are my only 2 questions that continue to plague me, and my pocketbook is starting to feel the hit from the reforging and constant changing! I do apologize if you have answered these questions in other posts and I haven't seen them.

 

Thanks in advance for your patience!!!

Edited by khellan

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For 4pc,its been my understanding from some MWs that yes, it is good to go for, it's not really that much of a difference though. It's constant solid healing that you don't have to control even if it's a bit dumb.

As for haste, it depends on playstyle. If you're SCK or RJW a lot it would be more beneficial. It's also better to do those spells in a 25 man than 10.

All in all, the very slight changes that really won't make that much of a difference. You can min-max all day but it's your playstyle that makes the difference

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Thank you for the quick reply the other day. At this point, I'm just using my Normal Mode 4pc as we progress in the hopes that the freebie bonuses work as they should :) I did decide to go with the 9158 Haste Breakpoint (and sacrifice a smidge of crit) in order to have more chances flowing around for that Mist Wave proc.

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Hey, how about the 2 piece?

I have the pants at 553, then the chest and shoulders at 528. My current chest is timeless 543 with like 1700 crit on it so the set chest may be a downgrade in stats but would give me the 2 piece bonus. Mr Robot recommends I use my timeless chest piece.

(Current shoulders are the crit ones from protectors and I wouldn't replace those with set ones.)

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Hi,

 

The 2 piece does help a little with reducing over healing but if the timeless has crit then you will possibly find more benefit from the extra raw stats on the higher ilvl timeless piece.

Dont forget to account for any extra sockets on the tier.

The rating of individual pieces can be off on mr robot i find when it works on absolute rating.

Just run a mr robot optimise on your current gear, switch to the tier and have a look at the difference in the crit and spell power ratings and use this to decide imo.

 

Happy killing smile.png

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Hi,

 

The 2 piece does help a little with reducing over healing but if the timeless has crit then you will possibly find more benefit from the extra raw stats on the higher ilvl timeless piece.

Dont forget to account for any extra sockets on the tier.

The rating of individual pieces can be off on mr robot i find when it works on absolute rating.

Just run a mr robot optimise on your current gear, switch to the tier and have a look at the difference in the crit and spell power ratings and use this to decide imo.

 

Happy killing :)

Ah, ok. My timeless piece is upgraded and gemmed, but even upgraded and gemmed the set piece would still lose out by quite a bit in raw stats. Probably a bit more int than the TI piece but like 650-750 crit lower.

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