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Christoph

Christoph - Frost mage videos

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            There is too many variables that this site leaves open and undisclosed. I'm so tired of meeting Mages who have a completely wrong view on how to play it. "This sites members", "We", "Us" need to get specific. Has anyone actually said "Frenzied Crystal of Rage" Is crap yet? the only fight you gain a damage boost over Toxic Totem is Galakras. and its by 2% only. Has anyone realized how Frost is the Consistent and top spec to play? Too many of you mages think that because those Chinese wow players with 590 ilvl's are what we should base our ideas of whats top spec. Everyone asks me, "When do you suggest people should go fire?".. I reply with, "I don't recommend you to go Fire". It really isn't your best bet for top dps. Although there are exceptions, my frost mage can hold 460k+ on paragons... my frost mage holds 460+ on h council, i can 400k+ H nuroshen, I can 360+ H Jugg, 400+ Dark Shamans all as frost.. now fire is fun and great to play. but you can't realistically expect to hold amazing numbers every single pull. Fire is Enormously reliant on RNG. and with you needing to maintain a high ignite, its hard to use nether tempest and keep it up on 3 targets as Fire and refresh them with your trinkets since u have to keep your ignite up and fireball+Pyro spamms going. You can reduce the negative RNG with high crit and a proper and fast alter time snap with pyro spam x4 (With trinkets and Meta Proced of coarse) will produce a 300+ ignite (Assuming all 4 pyros crit) but, none the less.. all 4 won't always crit. Presense of mind has only like a 15% chance to crit so u cant even use it on ignite stack or it just messes it up. Ice flows is now the way to go to reduce downtime and maintain high sustained dps. Fire is lacking at the moment and although you can hold great numbers sure and logs are there to prove they can hang but, it's still just a fad. nothing more. Fire seems cooler so we want it. Anyhow if you guys need actually factually visual advice on how to Burst or sustain dps as a mage, your going to need certain addons. Check out my 2 videos i send my new joined guild mages too on youtube for an overview on how to burst and sustain like a pro. Despite your spec, they will show you what your looking for, how to use alter time perfectly, etc.. how to sustain your nice burst etc...  Good Luck and remember to get specific.

Free Mage Burst guide - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_YppeLq9Ls

Free Mage Sustained Guide - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43IpQZRv_bg

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Hello Christoph,

 

I appreciate the time input into the videos and your comment, however I have to disaggree with you in some topics.

 

First of all Icy-Veins is a website and community where we seek to teach new players how to play their class and specs almost perfectly. That being said, we will never tell anybody what spec they HAVE TO play. If they enjoy playing fire, we will let them and teach them how to play it. Same applies to frost and arcane.

 

Secondly, yes we have always been saying that FRoC is a bad trinket in most cases, this and your number of posts tell me that you haven't been reading icy-veins recently, right? :)

 

I aggree with you, that frost does perform very will nowadays, but this is true for the other two specs. Just because you cannot do the same DPS in those specs, doesn't mean those are bad. I will point out why later.

 

PoM pyroblast, assuming you have around 560 item level will have 50%+30%+crit from int trinkets crit chance which means it has quite good chance to crit, making it the best choice for fire. Also, fire has Scorch for movement.

 

 

 

In the first video on the target dummy on pull you wasted like 4-5-6 Fingers of Frost charges, because you were spamming Frostbolts instead of spending those charges. Secondly, there were no snapshotting of Living Bomb with yout trinkets up. You could effectively have double duration of an empowered Living bomb at the cost of one GCD instead of one weak LB (without any procs) and one strong.

Also, you casted Water elemental after evocation, which, in a raid inverionment would mean that you have to evocate 1-2 seconds earlier instead of a frostbolt cast for example.

While you were talking about the perfect FFB-IL setup to benefit from 2 set bonus, you most of the times immediately spend the 1 FoF charge you got, while you could easily wait for 1 brain freeze to benefit from 2 set bonus.

Hero and meta does stack.

 

Other than these, I aggree with your arguements about having much haste etc. but that haste build is not the only viable. :)

The always cast something is so true! :)

 

Overall what I want to say to you, that your understand of frost mage is exceptional. I almost exactly think the same things that you said in the videos, however I would like to suggest you to fine tune these videos a bit- The talk part is awesome, but the practice sometimes hurt my eyes.

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This video was intended for any spec'd mage to see how your supposed to burst. PoM sux and i would probably beat you in dps since you use it hands down. Scorch sux in damage and is a waste of time unless there are no other options. I really dont know what els to say but "Logs". Other than that, I burst 700k+ on single target as frost and my 2nd video on sustained dps is Heroic Thok and will show you that first hand. These are videos intended to help the community, not insult you Mr. Mage Guru. I also appreciate you singling stuff out though. Thanks. and again.. "Logs"

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Ahh, i see which ice lance procs u said i wasted now. Well, the initial orb is only to hurry procs, and the frostbolt spam is to get the 3rd trinket to proc. i then immediately pop alter time with x2 14k+ Spell power trinkets and the Meta activated, then spam. I'm sorry ? ,  but thats how you get the 700k+ burst fully buffed flasked n 300 food. But i can see how you would think thats bad. But the wasted procs are lessened when your trinkets all proc faster. None the less you need at least 2 procs , both trinkets and your meta all up then alter time and spam.

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"Logs"

 

Your only logs are of LFR, which isn't a fair way to compare yourself to mages who don't often try in LFR. There's no way to compare between you and the top mages because of this. Your ilvl is also higher than Oltier's, but when compared to someone of equal ilvl, like Akraen, his dps for H Fallen Protectors is over 450k, to your LFR 330k. Perhaps you should log yourself in a better raid environment to have logs that can be compared to other mages of your ilvl.

 

Just my opinion on the matter. I don't know mages enough to be able to put any arguments on the table.

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I'll give you a couple hours to consider changing your stance, Christoph, before I hit you with the mighty math hammer :)

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This video was intended for any spec'd mage to see how your supposed to burst. PoM sux and i would probably beat you in dps since you use it hands down. Scorch sux in damage and is a waste of time unless there are no other options. I really dont know what els to say but "Logs". Other than that, I burst 700k+ on single target as frost and my 2nd video on sustained dps is Heroic Thok and will show you that first hand. These are videos intended to help the community, not insult you Mr. Mage Guru. I also appreciate you singling stuff out though. Thanks. and again.. "Logs"

I know that it was intended that way, however what you are saying in the videos and what you actually do are different and this way, completely misleading. I am by no means offended and I don't doubt that you are a good player. If you can do more DPS than me, I am fine with it.

However, just to clarify, I am myself a frost mage as well, thus I am not using PoM. PoM is only beneficial to Fire mage, but just in case they choose to switch to Ice Flows, IL Fireball is indeed better than scorch. But PoM is still the best for fire and I won't argue about this, unless you can criticise in a cronstructive manner.

About logs, I can only repeat Fouton.

 

Ahh, i see which ice lance procs u said i wasted now. Well, the initial orb is only to hurry procs, and the frostbolt spam is to get the 3rd trinket to proc. i then immediately pop alter time with x2 14k+ Spell power trinkets and the Meta activated, then spam. I'm sorry ? ,  but thats how you get the 700k+ burst fully buffed flasked n 300 food. But i can see how you would think thats bad. But the wasted procs are lessened when your trinkets all proc faster. None the less you need at least 2 procs , both trinkets and your meta all up then alter time and spam.

Orb is fine at start. But spamming Frostbolt instead of spending FoF charges is not fine. Ice lance has the same chance of proccing trinkets as Frostbolt, while being 100% crit chance.

In the Thok video you did it well, (tho I still think you wasted some FoF there) and you got lucky with procs. But watching the Frostbolt spam on dummies is NOT the way how you do 700k. On that kind of Hard aoe pull, I usually climb up to 1,1-1,2 million burst with adds, sometimes even more (ie. garrosh). And I am undergeared compared to you ^^

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I know that it was intended that way, however what you are saying in the videos and what you actually do are different and this way, completely misleading. I am by no means offended and I don't doubt that you are a good player. If you can do more DPS than me, I am fine with it.

However, just to clarify, I am myself a frost mage as well, thus I am not using PoM. PoM is only beneficial to Fire mage, but just in case they choose to switch to Ice Flows, IL Fireball is indeed better than scorch. But PoM is still the best for fire and I won't argue about this, unless you can criticise in a cronstructive manner.

About logs, I can only repeat Fouton.

 

Orb is fine at start. But spamming Frostbolt instead of spending FoF charges is not fine. Ice lance has the same chance of proccing trinkets as Frostbolt, while being 100% crit chance.

In the Thok video you did it well, (tho I still think you wasted some FoF there) and you got lucky with procs. But watching the Frostbolt spam on dummies is NOT the way how you do 700k. On that kind of Hard aoe pull, I usually climb up to 1,1-1,2 million burst with adds, sometimes even more (ie. garrosh). And I am undergeared compared to you ^^

Well sir's, I am standing in Shrine with only my own buffs. yes 1 million + as frost is quite common for me to peak at on aoe bursts. But while you may use frost bomb to accomplish this or even NT, I living bomb Garrosh, and sustain 360k when boss dies. http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/ggllgrlp3yc3fq6y/sum/damageDone/?s=837&e=1298#Christoph  . Again I didnt post this to offend you great and powerful Wizards of Mathematical Genius. Oh noes i don't need a math hammer down my throat right now either Akraen ^ ^. Just watch my videos guys. I learned from you guys and now i pass my experiences on to others.

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I'll give you a couple hours to consider changing your stance, Christoph, before I hit you with the mighty math hammer smile.png

lol and also, I should have kept those videos private until I added the caption/notes. But check them out now before you behead me Archmage Akraen. May your wisdom be showered upon us all Great Wizard. 

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Your only logs are of LFR, which isn't a fair way to compare yourself to mages who don't often try in LFR. There's no way to compare between you and the top mages because of this. Your ilvl is also higher than Oltier's, but when compared to someone of equal ilvl, like Akraen, his dps for H Fallen Protectors is over 450k, to your LFR 330k. Perhaps you should log yourself in a better raid environment to have logs that can be compared to other mages of your ilvl.

 

Just my opinion on the matter. I don't know mages enough to be able to put any arguments on the table.

Ask and you shall recieve good sir. http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/75yue1btnb07qwkq/sum/damageDone/?s=1326&e=1728#Christoph        460k+ Heroic Council

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Ask and you shall recieve good sir. http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/75yue1btnb07qwkq/sum/damageDone/?s=1326&e=1728#Christoph        460k+ Heroic Council

 

Ah, so you do have them. I was looking for 25H, my bad! The difference between your log and Akraen's log seems to be that you peak about 100k higher during your burst, however overall, you do 10k less DPS. Perhaps your burst, while being impressive, is hurting your overall dps?

 

Edit: Again, I don't know mages, so Akraen or Oltier could explain it a bit better.

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Ah, so you do have them. I was looking for 25H, my bad! The difference between your log and Akraen's log seems to be that you peak about 100k higher during your burst, however overall, you do 10k less DPS. Perhaps your burst, while being impressive, is hurting your overall dps?

 

Edit: Again, I don't know mages, so Akraen or Oltier could explain it a bit better.

possible Item level difference i suppose and RNG for my burst to his i would imagine. Akraen is Mighty. I look up to this guy. 

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I just look out for Oltier. Oltier's a damn good guy and one hell of a mage, don't be making him feel bad. That's bad form, is all.

 

Christoph, you should check out something I've been testing out lately and napkin math suggests I'm right... check my armory.

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I just look out for Oltier. Oltier's a damn good guy and one hell of a mage, don't be making him feel bad. That's bad form, is all.

 

Christoph, you should check out something I've been testing out lately and napkin math suggests I'm right... check my armory.

Holy rusted Haste Rating Akraen!.. thats like.. wierd bro. Whats the logic in being so far under Shatter if you wouldn't mind? but that looks like you could solo heroic protectors with that much haste and nothing on ur bar but Nether Tempest... lol (dodge, duck, dip, dive n ... dodge) 

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Yeah on aoe frost certainly bursts well. I'm nowhere near you guys' gear and I peaked at over 1,5M on pandas (without coe, sad raid comp). You're certainly a top player Christoph but you come off as pretty defensive and arrogant. While this might be justified somewhat by your performance, keep in mind that you're certainly not the only competent frost mage around, as Oltier, Akraen & others have proven time and again that they knew what they were talking about.

 

That being said, as a mage in a casual guild currently halfway through heroics, I do look up to you guys' and your crazy numbers, cheers. 

 

As a side note, are there fights where you'd rather use/not use the Water Elemental Glyph ? The elemental seems to go full retard quite a bit on some fights, depending on if you have the glyph or not.

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Yeah on aoe frost certainly bursts well. I'm nowhere near you guys' gear and I peaked at over 1,5M on pandas (without coe, sad raid comp). You're certainly a top player Christoph but you come off as pretty defensive and arrogant. While this might be justified somewhat by your performance, keep in mind that you're certainly not the only competent frost mage around, as Oltier, Akraen & others have proven time and again that they knew what they were talking about.

 

That being said, as a mage in a casual guild currently halfway through heroics, I do look up to you guys' and your crazy numbers, cheers. 

 

As a side note, are there fights where you'd rather use/not use the Water Elemental Glyph ? The elemental seems to go full retard quite a bit on some fights, depending on if you have the glyph or not.

It's alright man. I dont take any offence bud. I'm sure Guru Oltier and Archmage Akraen didn't either and I ment none either. But hey, Chuck Norris doesn't Flush the Toilet.. He scares the Shit out of it... I'm trying to show you first hand how to push uh duh buttons for those who are Derp and go full retard like you claim your water elemental to do on some fights. The only glyphs i change while frost is I'll swap my Splitting Ice for Rapid Displacement sometimes when i need to travel and there is absolutley nothing to cleave for the entire fight. And i would have said Arcane Explosion but, since adds on even heroic Sha die in seconds.. litterally.. we all hit so bleeping hard we just shit on them with orbs, multishots,explosionshots,crain kicks, etc. Kerrrsplat. so really just those 2 honestly. But having your elemental there to use its freeze on command and also have zero downtime on your elementals casting by it being able to move with you and cast at the same time. I havent noticed it bug out unless yourr on belts for siegcrafter sometimes. The elementals DPS is a good portion of Your own overall dps. You dont want your elemental moving too much and not casting or too far away to use freeze.

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Well sir's, I am standing in Shrine with only my own buffs. yes 1 million + as frost is quite common for me to peak at on aoe bursts. But while you may use frost bomb to accomplish this or even NT, I living bomb Garrosh, and sustain 360k when boss dies. http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/ggllgrlp3yc3fq6y/sum/damageDone/?s=837&e=1298#Christoph  . Again I didnt post this to offend you great and powerful Wizards of Mathematical Genius. Oh noes i don't need a math hammer down my throat right now either Akraen ^ ^. Just watch my videos guys. I learned from you guys and now i pass my experiences on to others.

I think, you guys you guys discussed everything what I wanted while I was sleeping. :)

 

Sidenote: I am also using LB there.

 

I am happy to see one of our "apprentince" climbed so high on the ladder of mages, truly. :)

However, please consider understanding my feedback about spamming only Frostbolt on pull in a situation where you could easily cleave adds with Ice Lances makes no sense. There is nothing wrong with the Thok video, but I would, with all honesty and offence, suggest to fine tune the first video.

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I think, you guys you guys discussed everything what I wanted while I was sleeping. smile.png

 

Sidenote: I am also using LB there.

 

I am happy to see one of our "apprentince" climbed so high on the ladder of mages, truly. smile.png

However, please consider understanding my feedback about spamming only Frostbolt on pull in a situation where you could easily cleave adds with Ice Lances makes no sense. There is nothing wrong with the Thok video, but I would, with all honesty and offence, suggest to fine tune the first video.

well i only frostbolt it there when i dont have a brainfreeze since i need at least 2 procs to capture in the Alter Time. If i do have 1 and 2, then ill use an ice lance then frostbolt and ice lance only again if i have recieved another. i guess this process is crunched and so quick i've built the habbit of just Frostbolt spamming to save all my procs to make sure my burst seconds from now is optimal. I'll focus on that Guru no doubt.

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This is a bizarre thread. Do you realize that you type like someone who is trying to incite or troll others?

 

I was going to lock it at the first, then I thought you must just not know how to articulate your point very well. So I left the thread open. But now after reading the rest of your posts, I can't figure out what you're trying to do other than spread misinformation and gloat about some numbers which are good, don't get me wrong, but you didn't discover anything new to help others or offer any insight to the community.

 

Icy Veins forums are not for one-upping others and I just don't see the point of this thread remaining open. No banning or warnings or anything, because I don't think you realize how you come across. So just think about it before the next post, please.

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