Akraen

Alter Time is At Risk! - Read & Sign to Save It!

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Greetings Mage Community
 
This is a controversial post, right off the bat. It's in response to the recent movement to address button bloat. There is a great chance that no matter what I type here, some people will see the author, me, and discount it immediately or simply skim through it. Because of this, I've decided to put a little bit more effort into how I present this information.
 

sVgXJ7Q.png

 
I'm going to take a more visual approach and hope that this helps. I encourage people to read Lissanna (the Druid MVP, who really is the de facto Mage MVP as well for some reason). I would like to direct people to her mostly excellent blog here.
 
However, there is a very worrisome attack on Alter Time here:

Alter time is actually an ability I could live without ever using as a DPS increasing talent. While it was originally designed to add some fun utility, due to this spell’s interaction with buffs that increase our damage, this is used only as a DPS increase in raiding situations (with a huge drawback of randomly placing you in fire puddles of death).

 
So this is my take on it:

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so hopefully I can help suggest...
NLAaf1P.png

 

 
What I want from you:
If you agree with the points of this petition, please reply to this post with your toon's name (devs might want to check that you actually -have- a mage) and something along the lines of "Signed, or agree" - you do not need to elaborate on anything else, just sign.
 

I will be posting this on other sites as well to increase awareness.

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I completely aggree with you Akraen. Even in this form of Alter Time, I love it. You need to use your brain when you want to use it and makes mages less button smashing class. I don't want this game to be THIS noob friendly. I love my mage, but there are clearly other classes that are much harder to play. Alter Time needs brain and I feel sorry for the people who want it to be removed for its complexity...

 

I like your suggestions for change VERY much. Especially, the fix for Heroism, and the 1-2 seconds of invulnerability after it expires, or you used the button. If these few changes get in game, I don't think the rest should be necessary. Yes, it's an RNG factor, but come on... Like fire hadn't been an RNG spec the whole Cata and MoP... (I mean... This number of RNG is acceptable.)

 

I, Oltier - Moonglade EU, frost mage moderator of Icy-Veins sign this petition. :)

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Alter Time does have it's drawbacks for sure, but it doesn't wipe raids and it does get your DPS up when used properly - and I need all the help I can get!!!!  I agree, fix it don't bin it!

 

I, Bralanlen of Shu'Halo (US), utterly useless mage when I'm playing Arcane and slightly less useless mage when I'm playing Frost, sign this petition smile.png

Edited by Bralanlen

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I believe that Blizzard doesn't actually care about the downsides of Alter Time. They simply want to change or remove Alter Time because it is too bursty ability for the almighty PvP.

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Without Alter time my burst would be absolutely horrific in PvP. I would probably stop playing.

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remember when if you used alter time when lei shen was walking across the platforms the dot would get stuck on you and the only way to lose it was to die? ah good times. im sure the blizz backend guys loved patching that one. gl keeping it, i think its great for a laugh.

 

it would be cool if you could use it to bank a sequence of actions your mirror images would do next time you pop those guys out.

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I, Deathsofa of Stormrage sign and what not. I can't stand spells that get deleted when no one ever tried to fix them. Divine Intervention could have used a good petition like this.

 

I never have pushed this button on my mage due to the horror stories that accompany the spell. For each second my finger rests over the key bound to Alter Time, I hear the whispers of an old god trying to convince me that it will be a good idea. The whispers turn to a cackling insanity before I quickly remove my finger from the key. I live for another day.

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I Brewmonksta(Luclanks, US-Sargeras) agree with not removing alter time, I love(and really hate at the same time) alter time.

It in one button adds depth to the cooldown priority and rotation. Some classes are meant to be harder to play than others for players that want the extra challenge while raiding/pvping. 

The fact that you can alter time yourself to death adds that bit of extra skill needed using it. I also particularly like when it can be used defensively(alter timing before an mc or debuff etc).

 

If alter time was removed now and the major cd's just buffed then mages just become big glass whack a mole machines. sad.png

 

Happy Killing!

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I agree that Alter Time should be fixed, not removed. My mage is Ghanjo of Defias Brotherhood EU.

It would be ok for me if trinket procs and cooldowns weren't extended, so it could be used as a utility or survival cooldown instead. I really like it for the surprise location reset when some random melee tries to pvp me on Timeless, or back in HoF where it could be used to avoid the first tornado run on Blade Lord Tayak.

Alter Time is a unique and interesting spell, that could allow for some intersting uses if we didn't feel the need to use it as a dps cooldown.

On the other hand, I actually like it as it is right now. I hope it stays in the game in some form.

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I, Elrovan of US-Silver Hand, agree with you Akraen, Alter Time should either be fixed or left alone. It adds a new complexity to the class, even it has drawbacks like anything else.

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I, Schellan on Terenas agree with said Alter Time petition. Fix it or leave it alone. 

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Noso - Illidan (EU)

 

Rework def. required but do not remove this cool spell!  It's the only spell in the mage arsenal that makes me feel kind of unique compared to other classes ...

 

Signed!

Edited by noso

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HardKoar - Defias Brotherhood (EU) - BOON Control

 

Alter time not only is part of my biggest burst during a pull on a raid encounter but I use it defensively aswell on encounters where I take damge overtime and manually end the 6 seconds before I die to help my healers , togheter with my other personal cds it is definitely a MUST.

 

People that die, because of alter time, need to learn more the encounter and how to use their class. It is 110% User error not spell error.

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Wow Insider's jumped in on the AT discussion too now.
 

If you'd asked me when I first hit 90, I would've agreed with ditching AT. Now I really appreciate it. I do need 3 macros at least to control it, so that could be improved. I suspect blizz's answer would be a glyph or talent so I would be locked into my choice in advance of a fight, yuck. The three macros I use are:

1) Casting AT with other buffs (modified so I don't cancel it with my usual button mashing)

2) End it early, so I get the partially elapsed AT

3) Cancel aura, so I get zero AT

 

>>>>I still hate the tier 90 talents. Let's get rid of those.<<<<

We could probably simplify the aoe rotation a bit, but I'm content with it as is.

 

I totally agree with other posters who've stated: button bloat is an issue that really affects other classes, not so much mages.

 

*Edit: I've been reading comments about this on other pages too.

I wouldn't mind Int buff being a passive aura, but I'm super lazy and I'm not too worried about the group losing the buff if I die. (I don't want to push extra buttons, and I'm conceited enough to plan on not dying.)

Also a single flyout button or "stance" type armor would be fine too. Again, I'm lazy and if it kept my "stance" setting that'd be easier for me to not have to recast the armor on the runback. Not that it's hard. It would clear out my screen a bit.

Also having read this, I plan to combine 2 and 3 into one macro and use a <shift> modifier to save a spot.

Edited by Mariketa

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What's odd is I've gotten through 3 tiers with great performance and not had 1 AT macro.

 

I've never canceled it. I just plan ahead as best I can.

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The only reason I want to keep alter time is because it 1) Restores Proc Buffs, and 2) Restores HP.

If Blizzard gives us a replacement that do the above, I don't mind the removal of alter time.

 

My thoughts:

Bloodlust + Alter TImer: Why did they even allow the debuff to stay on?

 

Ground Mechanics:

Having 2 sec invulnerability sounds awesome, it will allow us to at least blink/blazing speed away from the ground mechanics.

Another solution would be to incorporate blink into alter time, that if you use blink after alter time, you would blink to your location you were before ending alter time, and then get a speed boost.

 

Glyph to reduce cooldown by 90? Too overpowered if you PvP inv_glove_cloth_pvpmage_g_01.jpgGrievous Gladiator's Silk Handguards. 0 sec cooldown :/

 

The talents you mentioned:

Past: For how long can you store this 6 secs?

Present: What if trinkets are already on cooldown? What happens to CC breaker trinkets in PvP? (Then mages get yet another CC breaker)

Future: The CD version sounds a lot like Time Warp, which you are unable to cast in Arena + BG btw. 

 

Another solution would just to add 6 secs on the buffs and debuffs you already have. For instant spell procs: just add a new Buffs like "Alter Time: Fingers of Frost" and "Alter Time: Brain Freeze"

 

TL:DR. Solutions should also keep PvP in mind. 

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Haladon - Terrokar - The Committed Yahoos

I'm usually just a lurker, as I don't feel "smart" enough to contribute. However, I have grown to love Alter Time over the last year+ that I've been playing my fire mage. I understand the complaints against it. However, I would say from my standpoint that after a run or two of content, I find that I have a great idea of when and when not to pop it. Obviously rng has an affect on how effective it is and I personally am okay with that. It spices up the mage rotation and makes it interesting. If it wasn't for AT, I'm quite certain the fire mage rotation would be Super bland, especially once your crit procs almost every single time.

I feel that mages have no issues with bloat in general, Especially after having dabbled with other classes (I'm looking at you, hunters). I would offer that if we "must" clean up, then make our spells more spec specific. For example, I'm 100% certain I've never used cone of cold on my fire mage, yet it is still an option.

I'm probably rambling and/or preaching to the choir here. So, I support this petition, sign it, agree, etc...

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I hope you post more, Haladon-- don't feel like your thoughts aren't wanted!

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Thanks Akraen. I still feel like a n00b, so it's a bit intimidating, but this whole alter time thing was enough to bring me out of the woodwork. I'll try and spread the word!

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That's awesome Akraen :)  You continue to rise in my esteem. Do you just manually hit the other spells with AT?
I find I really need #1, I'm a big button masher (used to have bad lag/computer) so without it I'd never get any AT since the 2nd push cancels it.

#2 and #3... well, one of them is on my bar but I honestly am not sure which it is >.> <.< since I use it so rarely.

#2 restores the functionality I removed from AT with #1. #3 I got off some "best mage macro" post somewhere.

I just set up those macros to try to have a plan to recover from my own F'ups.  Not that I'd ever do that. naw.

 

Haladon I totally agree with you. (I've been fire most of Siege.) Fire needs something interesting like that to keep it exciting, otherwise it's just keep up the bomb and nuke until pyro lights up. Too simple and exactly the same as other specs main priority.

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You're a night elf mage, which means I'll do anything to help you. And you get priority over any other race of mage.

 

Yeah Akraen is racist, deal with it everyone else!

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That's awesome Akraen smile.png  You continue to rise in my esteem. Do you just manually hit the other spells with AT?

I find I really need #1, I'm a big button masher (used to have bad lag/computer) so without it I'd never get any AT since the 2nd push cancels it.

#2 and #3... well, one of them is on my bar but I honestly am not sure which it is >.> <.< since I use it so rarely.

#2 restores the functionality I removed from AT with #1. #3 I got off some "best mage macro" post somewhere.

I just set up those macros to try to have a plan to recover from my own F'ups.  Not that I'd ever do that. naw.

 

Haladon I totally agree with you. (I've been fire most of Siege.) Fire needs something interesting like that to keep it exciting, otherwise it's just keep up the bomb and nuke until pyro lights up. Too simple and exactly the same as other specs main priority.

 

I click Alter Time (OH NO GASP), and I honestly credit that to why I haven't really messed it up this entire expansion.

 

I've never used a macro to cancel it, I simply click off the buff if I have to. I've pre-planned my AT with DPS as the priority, using other talents like Greater Invis, spells like Blink, or glyphs like Ice Block to negate any bad effects that would come from keeping Alter Time on.

 

My approach to Alter Time is different than most. I don't experience -any- of the problems other people do. When I am in a raid group of any size, I announce a few sec before when I will be casting Time Warp, and I communicate with other mages so that they don't get stuck without it.

 

It astonishes me how complicated people make this out to be-- a little planning & good communication resolves each problem with the spell.

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I've somehow managed to survive without any AT macros as well. It's keybound on my num pad next to my intellect potion keybind. I don't think I've ever "needed"to cancel it. Just let it go, get off a few more pyroblasts then come back for a nice combustion. Like I said earlier, the first boss run or two I tend to be pretty conservative with it to avoid dying to something I didn't even know would be there. Besides, if I die from it, it's my own fault. I learn, laugh and do it differently next time!

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kelraza @ area 52

Although I am new to mage I like AT as it is, but can see some fun/utility in certain glyphs that would change its functionality.

I have killed myself with AT by getting displaced back into things like Nazgrims' heroic shockwave, I have damaged the raid by getting displaced back out of Malkorok's fancy puddles, it has also saved me from both those situations. I have done the same kinds of things with blink. In any situation I don't find it AT's fault for any of this, I know how the spell works and I just need to know when to use it and when not too. It's like hitting a raid cd too early or too late. It's not rng, it's poor planning.

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