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Damien

[Archived] S7 Hearthstone Low Budget Priest Control Deck

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Why the Novice Engineer instead of the Northshire Cleric?

 

Both cards provide card draw, but the Novice Engineer is guaranteed to draw a card, whereas the Northshire Cleric needs a special set-up (and more mana) to do so.

 

Using the Northshire Cleric efficiently against good players is very difficult. If you play the Cleric, and hope to heal some minions the following turn in order to draw cards, you will often find your Cleric dead or Silenced before this happens.The only way to guarantee drawing (at least) a card from it is to heal a minion on the same turn as playing the Cleric. This is a) more expensive than playing the Novice Engineer and b) hardly always possible, since you might not have any minions, or any damaged minions on the board.

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In my honest opinion i think the novice engineer is a bad card for a priest deck, esp compared to northshire cleric. A 2 mana card that only has 1/1 is a waste to me. Against a druid, mage, rogue it wont last til the next turn. Also, pally can summon a 1/1 to counter it and kill it by next turn as well. To me then you are just losing a card to draw another card. The worst part about it is the 2 mana cost. You cant even play it on the first turn. I feel lthe only way this card would be worth playing is if it was changed to 1 mana cost.

 

The northshire cleric can be a super powerful card in my opinion. With a 1 mana cost, it can be played first turn and with 3 health means it has the ability to stay around pretty long if healed (or given health boosts like pw:s). Usually an opponent will have to use a reasonably high dmg minion just to kill it, or use a lower dmg one with their hero power, causing them to waste a turn just to kill the cleric. I feel like if you arent healing your minions as a priest (unless using shadowform) you arent playing this class correctly. I dont like putting cards in my priest deck that have no chance of being able to be healed. I understand that there is no guarentee of a card draw with the cleric, however the potential of gaining many extra draws with heals, being able to play it on first turn, and having 3 health makes this a far superior card (at least to me).

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In my honest opinion i think the novice engineer is a bad card for a priest deck, esp compared to northshire cleric. A 2 mana card that only has 1/1 is a waste to me. Against a druid, mage, rogue it wont last til the next turn. Also, pally can summon a 1/1 to counter it and kill it by next turn as well. To me then you are just losing a card to draw another card. The worst part about it is the 2 mana cost. You cant even play it on the first turn. I feel lthe only way this card would be worth playing is if it was changed to 1 mana cost.

 

The northshire cleric can be a super powerful card in my opinion. With a 1 mana cost, it can be played first turn and with 3 health means it has the ability to stay around pretty long if healed (or given health boosts like pw:s). Usually an opponent will have to use a reasonably high dmg minion just to kill it, or use a lower dmg one with their hero power, causing them to waste a turn just to kill the cleric. I feel like if you arent healing your minions as a priest (unless using shadowform) you arent playing this class correctly. I dont like putting cards in my priest deck that have no chance of being able to be healed. I understand that there is no guarentee of a card draw with the cleric, however the potential of gaining many extra draws with heals, being able to play it on first turn, and having 3 health makes this a far superior card (at least to me).

 

Makes a lot of sense

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In my honest opinion i think the novice engineer is a bad card for a priest deck, esp compared to northshire cleric. A 2 mana card that only has 1/1 is a waste to me. Against a druid, mage, rogue it wont last til the next turn. Also, pally can summon a 1/1 to counter it and kill it by next turn as well. To me then you are just losing a card to draw another card. The worst part about it is the 2 mana cost. You cant even play it on the first turn. I feel lthe only way this card would be worth playing is if it was changed to 1 mana cost.

 

The northshire cleric can be a super powerful card in my opinion. With a 1 mana cost, it can be played first turn and with 3 health means it has the ability to stay around pretty long if healed (or given health boosts like pw:s). Usually an opponent will have to use a reasonably high dmg minion just to kill it, or use a lower dmg one with their hero power, causing them to waste a turn just to kill the cleric. I feel like if you arent healing your minions as a priest (unless using shadowform) you arent playing this class correctly. I dont like putting cards in my priest deck that have no chance of being able to be healed. I understand that there is no guarentee of a card draw with the cleric, however the potential of gaining many extra draws with heals, being able to play it on first turn, and having 3 health makes this a far superior card (at least to me).

 

There is definitely a discussion to be had here. That said, the Novice Engineer isn't considered good at all because of its stats. Before, as a 1/2, the body it put on the board was ok. Now, it's really not that impressive, but what IS good about it is the card draw.

 

It doesn't matter if a Druid, Mage, or Rogue uses their Hero Power to take it out. They used 2 mana to kill something you used 2 mana for - but you also get a card.

 

What makes it really nice is the fact that you get the card right away for 2 mana. With a Northshire Cleric, you need to spend 3 mana to get a card right away. And let's face it, often times when you need a better card than what you have, you're already some way into the game and you have enough mana to work with that you can usually play anything you draw for 8 mana.

 

So as I said in my previous post, which you kind of seemed to gloss over, against a good player the Northshire Cleric (just like the Starving Buzzard) will only ever have a chance to draw a card on the turn it is played on. It's going to eat a silence or just die by the next turn. The Novice Engineer doesn't have this problem. You can't silence it. You can't prevent it.

 

Look at it differently. It's late in the game and both you and your opponent are topdecking on an empty board. You draw Northshire Cleric. Totally useless. Nothing you can do. You play it and there's nothing to heal. Novice Engineer, on the other hand, will draw you a new option right away. Guaranteed.

 

Without meaning to sound arrogant, this might be a "good player" problem. If you're playing at levels where people's decks don't have a way to deal with a 1/3 (or who don't actually realize how important it is to deal with it), then Northshire Cleric might shine there. It might draw you 6 cards and win you the game.

 

To be sure, however, I don't think that the difference between the value of these two cards is all that big. Cleric can definitely do well, I just think that Novice Engineer is just more reliable.

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I understand how the nov eng could be beneficial. i guess in my mind i was thinking about it from a beginning hand point of view. In late game i could def see how the eng would prob be better than the cleric. For me though and the way i play the priest deck, putting down the cleric first turn is amazing. Also, i use cards like the youthful brewmaster to take it off the board and put it back on so the silence is removed. Here are two examples why i think the cleric is better (at least at beginning of game):

 

Mage vs Priest (Mage goes first both times)

With Nov Eng)

A

1st turn- Mage plays murloc 2/1 with charge, hits priest, your turn, you pass

2nd turn - mage (hits you for 2 dmg) plays faerie dragon, you play nov eng

3rd turn- mage uses power on nov eng, hits priest for 4 dmg, now its 30 to 22 on your turn with no minions out

B

1st turn- see above for mage, you play extra mana crystal and play nov eng

2nd turn - mage uses power on nov eng, hits priest with murloc, play smite on murloc or play minion

3rd turn - mage plays another minion,etc (just seems the mage is always one turn ahead)

**** If this happens in above examples, please explain as priest how to defend again this

 

With Cleric)

A

 1st turn - Mage plays murloc 2/1 with charge, hits priest, your turn, play cleric

2nd turn - mage doesnt like cleric so uses murlock on cleric then hits it with power, your turn and board is open for you (even though you didnt get an extra card, it made them waste turn and minion on taking you out)

B

1st turn- Same for both

2nd turn- mage puts out faerie dragon and hit priest with murloc, your turn, priest hits murloc and heals, gaining the extra card and removing a minion from the field, 30 to 26 hps and 2/3 minion for mage and 1/3 minion for you left

 

I know thats alot of rambling and examples so i apologize. I just feel you can see usually gain at least 1 card and help with board control while using cleric over eng. And honestly this may be where i need to improve in the game, but i dont understand destroying cards to gain a card. Lets pretend you know the nov eng will die by your next turn. Wouldnt it have just been better to put a card in your deck that is useful than wasting a card to draw another card? I guess thats where Im confused. I enjoy playing the game but am not an OP player by any means (least not yet ;) ) I havent gone for #1 ranked or anything so i may just be wrong. Above are just some of the examples iv come across while playing and in those battles i feel the cleric has served me better if not at least the same. However with the example you gave about topdecking at end match i understand how nov eng could be more useful.

 

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I understand how the nov eng could be beneficial. i guess in my mind i was thinking about it from a beginning hand point of view. In late game i could def see how the eng would prob be better than the cleric. For me though and the way i play the priest deck, putting down the cleric first turn is amazing. Also, i use cards like the youthful brewmaster to take it off the board and put it back on so the silence is removed. Here are two examples why i think the cleric is better (at least at beginning of game):

 

Mage vs Priest (Mage goes first both times)

With Nov Eng)

A

1st turn- Mage plays murloc 2/1 with charge, hits priest, your turn, you pass

2nd turn - mage (hits you for 2 dmg) plays faerie dragon, you play nov eng

3rd turn- mage uses power on nov eng, hits priest for 4 dmg, now its 30 to 22 on your turn with no minions out

B

1st turn- see above for mage, you play extra mana crystal and play nov eng

2nd turn - mage uses power on nov eng, hits priest with murloc, play smite on murloc or play minion

3rd turn - mage plays another minion,etc (just seems the mage is always one turn ahead)

**** If this happens in above examples, please explain as priest how to defend again this

 

With Cleric)

A

 1st turn - Mage plays murloc 2/1 with charge, hits priest, your turn, play cleric

2nd turn - mage doesnt like cleric so uses murlock on cleric then hits it with power, your turn and board is open for you (even though you didnt get an extra card, it made them waste turn and minion on taking you out)

B

1st turn- Same for both

2nd turn- mage puts out faerie dragon and hit priest with murloc, your turn, priest hits murloc and heals, gaining the extra card and removing a minion from the field, 30 to 26 hps and 2/3 minion for mage and 1/3 minion for you left

 

I know thats alot of rambling and examples so i apologize. I just feel you can see usually gain at least 1 card and help with board control while using cleric over eng. And honestly this may be where i need to improve in the game, but i dont understand destroying cards to gain a card. Lets pretend you know the nov eng will die by your next turn. Wouldnt it have just been better to put a card in your deck that is useful than wasting a card to draw another card? I guess thats where Im confused. I enjoy playing the game but am not an OP player by any means (least not yet wink.png ) I havent gone for #1 ranked or anything so i may just be wrong. Above are just some of the examples iv come across while playing and in those battles i feel the cleric has served me better if not at least the same. However with the example you gave about topdecking at end match i understand how nov eng could be more useful.

 

No need to apologize. The most fun I've had in this game is sitting around with friends theorizing about cards, and then seeing how the theories apply in practice.

 

Regarding your examples, I will say that I wouldn't say Novice Engineer is a good turn 2 play, and it's certainly a bad minion to use The Coin on. As I said in another thread (also in reply to you :p), the Novice Engineer is really only half of a minion, and the starting turns of a game are extremely important. They're so important that you should avoid, if at all possible, to play anything that is sub-optimal. So these are the turns where playing minions like Ancient Watcher, Sunfury Protector, Harvest Golem, etc. is good.

 

So for instance, your turn 2 play should not be a Novice Engineer. It should be an Ancient Watcher or a Sunfury Protector (which you could even Coin on turn 1, mind you). Immediately, that changes the board completely for the Mage. Playing his Murloc now dies to the Sunfury, and he needs his Hero Power to finish Sunfury off, meaning he can't play another minion while you can.

 

Cards that you can cycle (that is to say, they draw you another card) are usually good, especially when they offer something nice for their cost. The Novice Engineer lets you cycle a card, and offers a small minion to boot. Something like Azure Drake does the same, except it offers a cost-appropriate minion. Hammer of Wrath lets you cycle a card and deal 3 damage to a target of choice, and so on. These types of cards are basically just great.

 

So, in the types of games you mentioned, you would probably play Novice Engineer somewhere around turns 6-8, or beyond. Turn 5 Harvest Golem + Novice Engineer, for example, is good.

 

I spoke to Poyo about this (he's the one who actually maintains/comes up with these decks, and he's a very good player), and he agreed that you could include the Cleric in if you wanted to. It's just that he feels (and I agree) that it's just not as good an option as the Novice Engineer. He cited the case I mentioned above, where later on in the game, you can play Novice and get another card to play on the same turn, which can be a game-changer.

 

I think we're all learning and trying to get better at the game, so there's certainly no harm in talking about it. In fact, I enjoy it. Thank you also for taking the time and interest to carry this on :)

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lack of so much early control really kills you.. i have come across plenty aggro warrior/hunter decks and they ususally puts me down to 2 -3 hit kill range b4 i finally comes online with my taunting shit... late game cant beat noone cuz lack of late game skills and late game cards... i dont even know why this build exist.. i have palyed roughly 40 games with this deck since im new to this game and looking for a build guide etc but from my playing experience and not even RANKED just regular game this is what im experiencing getting killed early game or cant make it through late game...

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sadest deck ive ever seen not even worthy!

Why is this deck the saddest you have ever seen?

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Why is this deck the saddest you have ever seen?

read the above post and maybe you will get my point ! :-)

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Unlike the basic version of this deck, i found this deck to not be as consistently good. I agree with the others, I praised your basic version but this one needs to be re-evaluated along with the mid-cost version which i built up recently. No early game whatsoever really hurts both of them

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Unlike the basic version of this deck, i found this deck to not be as consistently good. I agree with the others, I praised your basic version but this one needs to be re-evaluated along with the mid-cost version which i built up recently. No early game whatsoever really hurts both of them

I've been playing with this deck today. Went from level 25 to 15 with 16 wins and 2 defeats. I never felt I was lacking early game.

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I've been playing with this deck today. Went from level 25 to 15 with 16 wins and 2 defeats. I never felt I was lacking early game.

I have also tried this deck and I could succeed with it around 10th rank with a bit worse win/loss ratio. Which is, on that rank level completely fine for a low budget deck in the current Meta.

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I am using this deck, just got Ragnaros the Firelord and was wondering what card should i replace?

I'd say swap 1 Mind Control, as it is quite situational and Raggy is just... Much better.

 

But wait for an answer of someone who is a bit more experienced with priest decks. :)

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I am using this deck, just got Ragnaros the Firelord and was wondering what card should i replace?

I'd say swap 1 Mind Control, as it is quite situational and Raggy is just... Much better.

I couldn't put it better myself :)

1 Mind Control should be more than enough in any priest deck. The reason why the deck list runs 2 is the budget limitations and adding an outstanding finisher such as Raggy will make significant improvements to your deck.

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I am finding this deck very difficult to play. Maybe I am just unlucky but I can't get the right cards in my hand to get the combos working and often find myself skipping turns because all I got is a bunch buffing/healing spells. 

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I personally find this deck very difficult to play. Maybe I am just unlucky but I can't get the right cards in my hand for combos to work... I often find myself helplessly skipping turns with a hand full of buffs/heals...

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I personally find this deck very difficult to play. Maybe I am just unlucky but I can't get the right cards in my hand for combos to work... I often find myself helplessly skipping turns with a hand full of buffs/heals...

Same here, I find myself needing WAY more minions in every single game. Most of the cards are situational, which is very frustrating for a control playing style. 

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I just got this deck a few days ago, and if used properly, this deck is absolutely great at turning the tables against your opponent if you use it right.

 

With cards like Sunfury Protector/Defender of Argus coupled with Ancient Watcher/a healed Injured Blademaster, you can have a very tight defense that can be difficult to break. I once had a game where I was down to 6 health and I pulled this defense out and as a result, I won the game since my opponent was unable to get through in time as I started delivering a counterassault. Basically, this is a deck of attrition/defense.

 

Also as a note, if you don't have any Twilight Drakes, Chillwind Yeti serves as a solid replacement for the time being.

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Wouldn't a loot raider card be just as hood as a nov eng? At least you're hotting jero or minion for two and getting a card draw as well.

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Hi guys, I have: Leeroy, Onyxia, Ysera, and Sea Giant.

 

Was wondering if I should swap any of the current cards for those and which ones?

 

Thanks in advance.

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