Sarnen

Spec per boss in SoO

8 posts in this topic

Since you sound like you know what you're about, which would you suggest?  It seems like MOP has lots of opportunities for rupture cleaving, what do you use as your go-to?

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Sarnen, I moved your reply to a new thread since the topic changed.

 

The context of the question is choosing a spec for raiding.

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Keep reading down for Falcifer's analysis, mine is somewhat flawed due to an oversight.

 

There are some chances for rupture cleaving in SoO, but the a lot of those chances come from adds with low health or adds that are mostly irrelevant. If you want to choose one spec for the whole raid to work on, I would work on Subtlety. If you want to take a more hands-on approach and tailor your spec to each individual boss, here's what I would do:

 

Immerseus: Take Subtlety. Adds that come up have very low health, and by the end of the fight you don't even get to attack the boss for that long. Subtlety will give you the single target burst damage that you want.

 

Fallen Protectors: You could get away with Assassination on this one. You've got 3 consistently high health targets, plus high health adds that spawn. Be careful that you aren't helping to push two bosses over their health thresholds at the same time; if this keeps happening your raid leader may force you to single target DPS.

 

Norushen: Subtlety. Adds are important to switch to, but their low health makes extras ruptures not worth it.

 

Sha of Pride: Subtlety. Same situation as Norushen.

 

Galakras: Assassination. Adds have decent health pools and AoE is actually helpful.

 

Iron Juggernaut: Subtlety. No adds.

 

Kok'ron Dark Shaman: Depends on your strategy. If the bosses are going to be separated for the majority of the fight, then Subtlety will be a good choice. If the bosses stay next to each other most of the time, then Assassination is more viable.

 

General Nazgrim: Sort of a toss up for me, it depends on how your raid handles the rear adds. If the rear adds are focused down by the ranged DPS and you get to stay on the boss for the most part, then Subtlety will do better. If you have to go fight the adds and the general strategy is to off-dot them and let them die slowly, then rupture-cleaving will work out nicely.

 

Malkorok: Subtlety. No adds.

 

Spoils of Pandaria: Assassination. Plenty of adds to weave your rupture onto, plus you get consistently high initial damage on the small adds that quickly melt away.

 

Thok the Bloodthirsty: Subtlety. One add, but you can't hit Thok while it is up.

 

Siegecrafter Blackfuse: Depends on your role. If you are on the assembly line, Assassination will leave larger dots on adds that you let by for others to pick up. If you're on the boss, you won't be switching off too often, so Subtlety will work better.

 

Garrosh Hellscream: I'm tempted to say Assassination for this one, but this is another that could go either way. You do get some mass AoE chances, but other classes are just plain faster and better at it. You do get some medium health adds, but they should be target switched to, not just off-dotted with Rupture. If your raid is starving for AoE, I'd take Assassination. If you've got AoE support, your DPS would be better used in single target on Garrosh or bursting down the healing adds.

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If anyone has different opinions on what spec they prefer for SoO bosses, please post and discuss.

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I'm surprised you completely ignored combat , many high end rogues are playing it for heroic , I'd think it is viable.

 

I havent played assasination since Wotlk - so when you say AOE, i'm not sure which spell that refers to :P

 

For Galakras, i would vote for Combat for sure - with lots of adds. For Shamans I'd again vote for combat.

 

I'm sure sub is great spec but i find it hard to play to its' full potential. In my opinion, if you like me, not have that warm feeling towards Sub, it won't benefit you as much as playing the spec you know the best / like.

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For single-target, subtlety should be the go-to spec.

For cleave, combat should prevail.

 

The similar gear set-ups and stat priorities make them very good specs for dual speccing. Assassination has a very different priority and is restricted to daggers, but it's also viable. For the record, stacking mastery will make assassination better (compared to stacking haste, NOT compared to combat) for AoE and target switching, whereas stacking haste will improve single-target DPS.

 

Regardless of spec, the right strategy will improve DPS far more than anything else. Knowing when Marked For Death is more viable than Anticipation, and using glyphed Redirect efficiently will help a lot. Shuriken Toss is also very handy in certain circumstances.

 

In my experience, assassination can't compete with either of the other specs in terms of pure DPS (played well on the right fights), but the slower pace means (for me) I can pay lots of attention to the raid, and I don't have to worry so much about sticking behind the boss or dying when I use Killing Spree...

 

I have 9/14 HC (10-player) with assassination, so it's certainly viable for all fights. We don't really have a solid group, but we always have at least a couple of classes who do OP AoE damage, so the task of AoE never falls to me. And SoO favours ranged on most fights, so there's plenty of ranged (only me and a paladin as melee).

 

I'll just describe the fights in a very basic sense and also mention one or two things I do as assassination, or how our raid group handles each fight.

 

Normal Immerseus: Phase 1 is just single-target on Immerseus. Phase 2 is dealing with the adds. They're not usually stacked enough for cleave, so single-target again. Towards the end of the fight, there will be fewer and fewer adds to kill, and the boss will be up for less time, so burst damage is good here.

 

HC Immerseus: While the boss is up, he will occasionally have a debuff which spawns an add each time he takes a direct attack, and gives you a stack of your own ticking debuff. You can manage with about 4-5 stacks, so for a 10-man group you end up with about 40-50 adds. Our tank takes them all up and they get AoE'd down quickly. I usually throw a few Fan of Knives up to get them poisoned while focused on Immerseus, because AoE doesn't grant you stacks, so you can still generate combo points on the boss while AoE'ing the adds. The debuff and adds don't last long anyway, so overall it's much the same as normal.

 

Suggestion: subtlety

 

Normal Fallen Protectors: As Krush says, cleave can help as long as you're not getting the other two down too quickly. Killing Spree could dump you in some poison cloud or defiled ground. Some raid awareness will serve you well, and the cleave of combat will help a lot. The adds that spawn during Rook's second phase are usually spread out, so no chance for cleave, except during Sun's desperate measures phase. The Anguish during He's phase will be single-target, too.

 

HC Fallen Protectors: Similar to Normal during phase 1. The Rook adds share a health pool, but are still spread out. Not much changes here.

 

Suggestion: Combat for phase 1 cleave. Turn off Blade Flurry during Desperate Measures, except for Sun's where you can cleave the adds and the bosses. 

 

Normal Norushen: Our priority is always adds. Usually too spread to benefit from cleave. Single-target burst will help on adds and on the boss.

 

HC Norushen: More things for tanks and healers to worry about, but pretty much the same for DPS.

 

Suggestion: Subtlety

 

Normal Sha of Pride: Our tank picks up the Self-Reflection adds and everyone else has great AoE. Ranged deal with the Manifestation (big add). For rogues, it should be a single-target fight.

 

HC Sha: A couple of extra mechanics - running for rifts every 60 seconds and people being banished. Still single-target and the burst will help with freeing people from banishment.

 

Subtlety.

 

Normal/HC Galakras: Not much difference between them for DPS. Slightly different tactics for the final phase in terms of stacking up, but tons of cleave during the first phase. Shamans get priority for us, but single-target seems like a waste when there's so much cleave potential. Potential problems with Killing Spree again, but just be aware of when you're using it; the mini-bosses tend to lay down some AoE which you don't want to be stuck in

 

Suggestion: combat. Marked For Death will help a lot for keeping up SnD. Remember to turn off Blade Flurry for the last phase.

 

Normal Iron Juggernaut: Single-target. Not a single add. Massive uptime on the boss. With Shadowstep and Cloak of Shadows you should be able to maintain close to 100% even during the Shock Pulses. You shouldn't ever have problems with positioning, so subtlety is the best choice here.

 

HC Juggernaut: Our group, and I think most groups, stack far away from the boss during phase 2. Nothing to do but wait. Single-target on phase 1, though, so subtlety again.

 

Suggestion: sub

 

Normal Kok'ron Dark Shaman: The two bosses should be stacked for the majority of the fight, so cleave will help. Killing Spree is very iffy on this fight. It's a terrible fight for melee, really, and being stuck in melee with KS can be deadly. Having KS glyphed might not be a great idea, because you never know what's going to spawn in your original location, so you might not want to be back there. The adds should be kited by the target and AoE'd by a ranged class (our warlock takes care of them), so you shouldn't have to worry about them. There might be some downtime if melee is very messy, so I sometimes take Shuriken Toss for some DPS while out of melee range, but haven't noticed a huge difference - it just feels better to be doing something out of melee than to be standing around.

 

Even with just one additional target, combat should be good here. The main thing, in my opinion, is knowing the fight; reacting quickly to storms, adds, foul stream, etc... getting out of melee if you have to. Survival is key in raiding, and this fight should test your ability to survive!

 

HC Shamans: A couple of extra mechanics here, depending on how you do the fight. If you split them up, the mechanics are easier to deal with, but single-target will do better. If you follow normal tactics (as we do) there's just more surviving to do.

 

Suggestion: Combat for normal and HC using normal tactics. Sub for HC tactics (splitting them up)

 

Normal General Nazgrim: Adds have priority for us. Even during Berserker. No real chance for cleave, so single-target burst is good here.

 

HC Nazgrim: An extra add plus slightly different tanking strategy (for us), but very much the same as normal in that adds have priority.

 

Suggestion: subtlety

 

Normal Malkorok: Single target all the way. No issues with positioning. Slight downtime if you're soaking the melee pool and it's out of melee range (some spawn close enough that you can still DPS while you're stood in the pool). You'll be stacked up in front of him during phase 2, so you can't Backstab.

 

HC Malkorok: Single target again. There is an add that spawns, but it should be picked up and cleaved down by the tank(s). You shouldn't be stood in front of him during phase 2 on HC, so sub should do even better on HC than on normal.

 

Suggestion: subtlety.

 

Normal Spoils of Pandaria: No real boss, just seemingly endless adds. Should be plenty stacked up for cleave. Even when the "bosses" are up, there is likely to be an add or two to cleave down. Killing Spree can be a problem if you use it at the wrong time, but generally should be okay. In my experience, there's too much movement for sub to be efficient. Marked For Death and Glyph of Redirect should allow for better SnD uptime. Getting used to how quickly things die will take a little time, and depends on the DPS of other members in the group.

 

HC Spoils: Very similar to Normal. Not as many adds up at one time, because killing an add on one side spawns a large Spark on the other side which has to be killed ASAP (not usually a job for melee DPS). Cleave won't be as effective, but should still help.

 

Suggestion: combat

 

(I haven't done the rest on Heroic yet)

 

Normal Thok the Bloodthirsty: Once you (and the rest of the group) are very well geared, you can keep him in phase 1 and nuke him down, so single target is best. However, you'll probably be doing it normally most of the time. Still, there's only one add and you won't be attacking both the add and Thok at the same time, so single target is still best here. You can take Shuriken Toss for phase 2, but not if Anticipation is a major boost for subtlety - for assassination, the poison damage makes it slightly viable.

 

Suggestion: subtlety

 

Normal Siegecrafter Blackfuse: I'm always on the belt. Single target burst is likely to help get the belt add down quicker. I have had (early on when I was less well geared) my ticking poison damage finish off the crawler mines at the last second. I've never been asked to focus on adds, so I just go between the belt and the boss. 

 

Suggestion: If you're on belt duty, take sub. Sub should also be okay if you're dealing with the shredder, too, since I don't think there's any cleave going on.

 

Normal Paragons of the Klaxxi: Three are up at the same time, and combat's cleave will give you very high DPS. But once you kill one of the Klaxxi, the other two get healed to full, so you're doing nothing but padding DPS meters by cleaving on this boss. And with Blade Flurry active, your single target DPS will be lower. Do not cleave on this fight!

 

Suggestion: subtlety. There is the occasional add, but nothing cleave-worthy. Single-target burst on the amber and bloods will help, too.

 

Normal Garrosh Hellscream: Very varied fight. Lots of adds during phase 1, good chance for cleaving. Need some burst for the MC'd people. During the transitions cleave will help finish off the adds, but single-target will burn down Garrosh more quickly. The adds that spawn during Empowered Whirling Corruption should be single-targeted down. Then it's back to single-target on Garrosh.

 

Suggestion: for SoO, it would be ideal to dual spec with combat and subtlety. You'll have to reforge and gem to make the best of both, but it shouldn't be detrimental to either. Both have haste as the highest stat on Icy Veins. Sub and combat place different priorities on crit and mastery, so it would probably be best to try to balance them out, unless you have two sets of gear...

 

If you have a slow weapon and fast dagger, you should be able to just switch them between hands when changing spec. Assurance of Consequence should be one of your trinkets. Sigil of Rampage should be even better for cleave fights, and Haromm's Talisman should be better for single-target. Thankfully, neither trinket has stats, so it shouldn't mess up reforging.

 

So, for Garrosh, I would recommend trying it in both specs and seeing which is more beneficial overall. If you have a lot of really good AoE/cleave classes already, it might be better to focus on single target. If you have a lot of good single target classes, go with combat. Ideally, in combat, you should be switching Blade Flurry on and off depending on the situation.

 

As mentioned above, a lot of HC raiders are moving to combat. I had a look at a couple of high population servers and the majority of rogues are combat (or were when they were last updated on WoW Progress). Getting the Assurance trinket, higher item level (not sure at what point it's ideal to change), and a decent weapon, it seems that the advice is to switch.

 

At item level 570, I found that my single target DPS in combat was higher than assassination (raid dummy test). Obviously, cleaving was much better, too. That's with AoC and Ticking Ebon Detonator. Using HC WF + HC daggers for assassination, and HC fist + HC WF dagger for combat. It's entirely viable to raid exclusively with combat, especially if you struggle with subtlety. But then I've managed 9/14 HC with assassination, so it's a viable spec, too. I'm sure sub is the same - it just has a higher skill cap.
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Wow, I wasn't even thinking about Combat spec. *duh* I got all wrapped up in Assassination vs. Subtlety from the other thread.

 

I agree with Falcifer's analysis with that in mind, especially now that you can hit 5 targets with Blade Flurry.

 

I'll reiterate my main point though: if you aren't good at all the specs, stick to the one you're best at. If you have no practice at playing Combat, just choosing the spec and throwing on Blade Flurry won't work. I'm of the opinion that a raiding rogue should be fluent in all three specs for these kinds of situations, but I recognize that's an ideal, not a reality for many rogues.

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Hi folks. 

 

Made a pretty long post for Combat Heroic Modes here:

 

http://www.icy-veins.com/forums/topic/3047-siege-of-orgrimmar-rogue-style/page-2

 

Which is what I'd suggest if you're progressing heroic. (If you can get weapons and decent haste levels)

 

Went assassination for our 10 man progress (10/14) since we had no gear drops. 

Then we turned into 25 man and drops were flowing like water. Coined a fist from Protectors and went Combat.

 

Combat provides very good singletarget DPS when you have AoC. Since this leads to a lot of uptime on Deep Insight. And with a simple click you have cleave (melee warlocks).

 

Combat also provides amazing single target burst with KS. 

Went sub for Garrosh HC first week. Then back to combat and that On-demand burst Combat has is just amazing for Engineer and first transition.

 

My armory profile:

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/tarren-mill/Zombiedance/advanced

 

Battletag(EU): Krans#2786.

 

PS: (Goblin is for lols) progressed as Orc. It does make a difference.

 

Cheers

 

 

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