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lynx

SoO trinkets for resto woes

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I've been incredibly lucky in the last three weeks and got both, the amp and siegecrafter trinket (I had thok's for quite a while now).

Now this got me thinking. Amp trinket is probably a no brainer, but the decision between siegecrafter and thok is not as obvious as I initially thought.

 

I've done some simple math and the proc from siegecrafter trinket equates to roughly 2.2k spirit, while maintaining a steady 2.1k int.

Thok's trinket has the cleave component, and its proc equates to roughly 2.1k int.

 

Cleave component maximum potential is in a completely stacked fight in which it bolsters your raw average healing by about 16%. I'm aware that this is huge in fights like Galakras, Malk (for shielding up) and Thok. But other than that its value drops by a lot and rarely goes beyond 5% of overall effective healing.

While int proc with an icd is not that useful.

 

Siegecrafter's trinket on the other hand provides you with the same static bonus to int. And the spirit proc is rppm (it could be on icd just as well). Spirit procs, in contrast to int can happen at any time and it'll be roughly equivalent of having more static spirit. So basically I thought of reforging 2k more out of spirit and getting as low as I possibly could (7k ish). Ideally, if I could dump everything into crit then it maths out to about 8% increase in throughput.

But here is where it sucks. I can't get lower than 8k spirit, and hence I can't up my crit by more than 2%! Seriously, Blizzard, why there're so few int mail without spirit (and useless for resto hit)?

A trinket that on paper seems to be at least as good as Thok's (on most fights), fails only because there are not enough items with better secondaries.

I'll just go and cry in the corner...

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I'll be honest, in most fights on Heroic I'm finding that I don't need the regen anyway. The Totemic Recall play is so absurdly powerful (it's worth about 3k Spirit!) that just sitting at 13k with the Amp trinket works really well.

 

One other thing to remember is that the spirit -> mana conversion isn't quite as simple as you've calculated. The amp trinket gains and your static spirit contribute to Mana Tide Totem, but the proc off Siegecrafter doesn't. Personally, I like a nice beefy Mana Tide (especially because my co-healer relies on the mana to keep going!) So I take the Amp and the Multistrike trinket.

 

However, considering the sheer power of that extra 2k Intellect (let's just call it a static 2k Spell Power, which is about 2800 extra healing on a non-crit GHW) I'd probably take that because it's controllable. I think that in a Heroic raiding situation, I'd rather take the extra guaranteed healing because I'm much less likely to overheal.

 

That then begs the question - how much Spirit do I feel that I could go to with the Samophlange? At 2k average Spirit, and considering that I don't get the MTT benefit, I'd go down about 1k Spirit to 12k total. Assuming I can convert that all into Crit, that's about a 1.6% Crit chance gain (not an awful lot). Weigh that against an average healing of 2% from Multistrike, and I'd probably take the Samophlange if I could get it at Normal Warforged or better.

 

Also on the Cleave trinket front; my co-healer has it (I gave it up because he was using a 502!) and it does about the same healing as my Multistrike on most Heroic fights - Protectors, Juggernaut. (admittedly on Galakras it did 9%).

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The sp of the siegectafter trinket is actually 2.5k in raid. Also the crit you would gain is 1% more due to static int.

But yeah, mtt will suffer, and your co-healer might hate you :D I guess that's why you keep your spirit at 12k, as I got it down to 9k and I don't go oom, plus I'm healing with a disc so he can be conservative about his mana.

And while we're at it, I really can't thank you enough for the recall auras! A real life changer :)

I actually thought of switching to immerseus amp, so I can control the proc. Did anyone try this?

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The DPS amp isn't really recommended due to the loss you get from having to DPS. On some fights controlling the proc might help, but only if you have a period of no damage followed by a period of LOTS of damage.

 

And while we're at it, I really can't thank you enough for the recall auras! A real life changer smile.png

 

Completely welcome! It's fantastic isn't it? :D

 

Actually if we spent most of the time 3-healing rather than 2-healing I'd go still lower on Spirit (to 10k-ish), but since I spend all my time healing heavily I can't really afford not to have that regen =]

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Those trinket still eludes me! I've reached a 570 item level and only have multi strike and the siege trinket on normal. Added to that, the only amp trinket I have is the raid finder version upgraded to 536. I have been using the regen trinket on a few fights and it seems to do well it's a static buff to int and therefore crit.

As far as keeping a higher static spirit: if your co-healer(s) aren't constantly running oom, then you won't need a huge spirit # on the stat sheet.

I personally favor static bonuses but procs are fun to watch out for. In watching logs from our healers with the Thok trinket I don't see that it is as amazing as it looks on paper. Much of the healing just adds to overheal (which makes sense given that you chose that heal based on incoming damage, not a % chance to do more) for my tastes the amp trinket and the regen trinket will be my main trinkets, swapping in thok's and nazgrim on certain fights. I like nazgrim's when I am on tank heals.

If you have the imm trinket it may work if you can reliably proc it on demand but if it took a few seconds you may miss your window. I say try it on some farm bosses and see how ya go.

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I'd be interested to know information about how many healers you usually run with on Heroic progress :)

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The number of healers for us on progression varies. We have six in the roster but I'd say more commonly run with 5. For progression fights we need the heals and on farm heroics sometimes we bring a healer if we don't need dps and that healer needs gear. For the first 5 we usually will see if any healer doesn't need gear on that boss and they can sit for a dps.

For progression kills, we used

5 on immerseus (joke fight now)

5 on protectors

4-5 on norushen. I think 4 was the kill but not sure

6 on sha (due to spread & dispel)

5 on galakras

6 + 1 OS dps went heals (don't ask, it was embarrassing) on iron jugg

5 on nazgrim

Currently working with 5-6 on malk but we still have mechanical issues.

Like I sad, we vary it a lot based on farm and who needs the gear. We have had some people leave and others join which is slowing us down.

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Have yet to see the amp trinket drop. Blizz needs to have less tier on wing bosses. 

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Have yet to see the amp trinket drop. Blizz needs to have less tier on wing bosses.

I have had the absolute worst luck with trinkets. I am rocking the regen trinket and the nazgrim multistrike (normal). I have an LFR prismatic but really want the PPP and thok's. I see uses for the regen trinket (25 sha HC) but would rather have the throughput.

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For progression kills, we used

5 on immerseus (joke fight now)

5 on protectors

4-5 on norushen. I think 4 was the kill but not sure

6 on sha (due to spread & dispel)

5 on galakras

6 + 1 OS dps went heals (don't ask, it was embarrassing) on iron jugg

5 on nazgrim

Currently working with 5-6 on malk but we still have mechanical issues.

 

Interesting. We ran in 10-man with;

 

Immersius - 2

Protectors - 3 (since the kill we do it with 2)

Norushen - 2

Sha of Pride - 2

Galakras - 2

Iron Juggernaut - 3 (aiming to get it with 2 at some point)

Nazgrim - 2

 

We're progressing on Dark Shaman right now and can't decide between 2 or 3.

 

Actually I say three - one of our DPS goes offspec heals. He's a great healer, just undergeared and not really practised enough, so he's usually doing half what us two MS healers do. So I guess you could say we 2.5-heal the more difficult fights? :P

 

What that means is that consistency and regen are important, where spike healing for me is useful but not as good. Maybe I'll rethink what I want for BiS.

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I would say that with a solid grasp on mechanics and a relatively good gear level the minimum heals change a bit. Also having a more well rounded healing team would alter the projections. We currently run with 2x shaman, 2x Druid, 1 holy priest, and a mistweaver monk. The monk goes dps first and then one of the heals will sit out. The healing gear ranges from 570ish all the way down to like 558 or something. (Shakeups and team splits have had us scrambling a bit)

Ideally I would say you could 4 heal most fights on heroic 25 man except for:

Iron jugg - 5 heals or 4 heals and good raid CDs from the dps

Malkorok - this feels like a 4 heal fight but would have a small margin of error

I won't know on the last wing for a bit since we are only 8/14 but I would guess Thok at least would need 5 healers.

When we roll to mythic 20 man it could get weird.

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I didn't figure it was worth a different thread, and this one is about trinkets:

 

What do you guys think of using the regen trinket from blackfuse as a throughput trinket? Targeted points:

 

  • I gain about 2% or so steady crit from the static int buff
  • I only have the LFR PPP trinket. (536) How much is the bonus crit actually worth?
  • At what level would the PPP trinket's crit buff overtake the regen trinket and how much does the 5 or 6% really bring to the table?
  • For those that have had better luck in trinkets, which feel best for you and are there fights where you swap them?

 

Just some talk points for the inner nerd in all of us.

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I'd take the higher ilvl one. I think this tier the trinkets are all very useful, so the Samophlange is just as good overall as the Prison. The higher ilvl makes all the difference :)

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i like having a lot of crit and i use the amp and horridon's trink. the flat int is super reliable and with the mana gains of both the trinket and more crit from reforging spirit away, i feel comfortable in ten heroic fights with 8k spirit. i'd try lower spirit if i could, but the hands from galakras just wont drop.

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i like having a lot of crit and i use the amp and horridon's trink. the flat int is super reliable and with the mana gains of both the trinket and more crit from reforging spirit away, i feel comfortable in ten heroic fights with 8k spirit. i'd try lower spirit if i could, but the hands from galakras just wont drop.

I actually had some luck on the hands and the heroic wf scepter

@stoove, I think you're right with the ilvl comparison of the trinks. I will probably stick with the higher ones

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I actually had some luck on the hands and the heroic wf scepter

 

Nice!

 

I'm using the heroic Eyeball Staff off Sha (can't remember its name). It's pretty good, but I'd prefer the 1h+OH combo :(

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Nice!

 

I'm using the heroic Eyeball Staff off Sha (can't remember its name). It's pretty good, but I'd prefer the 1h+OH combo sad.png

Gaze of Arrogance?

 

I always prefer to use 1h/Oh. It's lame but I mainly like the look and being able to swap in different OH for different purposes. Most BIS calculations lead me to the staff from blackfuse, but unless I coin it I won't be able to get it for a while as I'm sure more of the casters will need it and we're not even to that boss yet.

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Ideally I would say you could 4 heal most fights on heroic 25 man except for:

Iron jugg - 5 heals or 4 heals and good raid CDs from the dps

Malkorok - this feels like a 4 heal fight but would have a small margin of error

 

Have you killed Dark Shaman yet? We just got it, 2-healed it. Holy crap that was a tough fight, the sheer single-target throughput needed on that top group is insane. Drove me completely insane o.0

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Have you killed Dark Shaman yet? We just got it, 2-healed it. Holy crap that was a tough fight, the sheer single-target throughput needed on that top group is insane. Drove me completely insane o.0

We have a couple of kills on this now and we usually run with 2 heals up top and 2 heals on the bottom but this is pushing the limits and I believe on the first kill we had a 3rd healer on one of the teams. The heals up top are going insane dodging the stone, the ooze and keeping heals on the insane damage of the mist. It gets really crazy and one small accident becomes a wipe very quickly. 

 

I'm always up top with a monk, so I'm not sure how bad the bottom is but I know cool downs become critical when the ash comes out for both teams and using external cool downs if a player gets the debuff and doesn't have one of their own. 

 

I still think 4 healers could do it, 5 for comfort.

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We have a couple of kills on this now and we usually run with 2 heals up top and 2 heals on the bottom but this is pushing the limits and I believe on the first kill we had a 3rd healer on one of the teams. The heals up top are going insane dodging the stone, the ooze and keeping heals on the insane damage of the mist. It gets really crazy and one small accident becomes a wipe very quickly. 

 

Yeah that's my experience, too. It was just me and two tanks up there, and wipes happened so damn easily. On our second to last attempt I died, got rezzed, then got the slime on me and was instagibbed. Such frustration! :P

 

Still, it's the first time I've really had to change my standard spec. Went into Echo of the Elements and Unleashed Fury, that was an interesting build :)

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I too had to change things up, I was trying to push out so much healing on the people up top, which for us in 25 man is the melee, a monk heal and 2 ranged. We were so focused on keeping the stones dropping in an organized manner that it is way too easy to tunnel, and one sec of tunneling and BAM, Stuff gets weird quick. 

 

We found that lining up against the wall spread out about 10 yds helped a lot. Then we'd step forward for stone, and then back against the wall. Until we had to move down, then we sort of leapfrogged our way down the edge of the path.

 

For the slimes, we did it where the person that had the slime stayed STILL, then everyone else adjusts accordingly. This helped immensely. If it was hitting weird then I would use a small healing CD especially if it hit close to falling ash, which I would use a larger CD. 

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Yeah since I was on my own, we didn't have too many positioning problems (though I became an expert at stacking those tombs up together!) One cool thing I noticed is that the orientation of the tombs depends on your orientation when it's cast, so you can stack them up much more efficiently by gaming that.

 

For the slimes, we did it where the person that had the slime stayed STILL, then everyone else adjusts accordingly. This helped immensely. If it was hitting weird then I would use a small healing CD especially if it hit close to falling ash, which I would use a larger CD. 

 

Yeah my solution to Falling Ash was to take Unleashed Fury and combine it with glyphed Chain Heal. It was a big enough heal that it gave me enough time to top everyone before the damage from Falling Ash hit :)

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