Anderson

Magebomb Snapshotting Guide

28 posts in this topic

With Patch 6.0 dots no update dynamically, thus the topic is outdated.

 

 

An exception for mages is Nether Tempest, which damage is increased by each Arcane Charge by 50%.

 

0. Introduction

 

Magebomb Snapshotting is an important factor when it comes to optimize your DPS, regardless the spec/build you choose. Since neither the frost mage class guide here on icy-veins nor Akraen's Comprehensive Frostmage Guide covers this topic, I decided to create this guide.

 

In nearly all cases, I am not the source of information. All I do is gathering the information and try to present it in a decent way. Some Sections are still under construction or need approval. I will mark them accordingly. 

 

I like this guide to become as plain as possible while still covering all aspects.If you miss something, please reply and I try to fill in the blanks.

 

1. Basics

 

Before we go to the definition and necessity of snapshotting, I'd like to point out that by magebomb only ability_mage_livingbomb.jpgLiving Bomb and spell_mage_nethertempest.jpgNether Tempest  are meant, but not spell_mage_frostbomb.jpgFrost Bomb.

 

1.1 Definition

 

"Snapshotting is refreshing your mage bomb after getting an intellect/haste proc and refreshing your bomb again, before that proc expires."
 
1.2 Necessity

 

The damage of each bomb tick relies not on your stats at the time the bomb ticks, but on your stats at the time you casted the bomb (snapshot). By refreshing your bomb after getting a major int/haste proc, bomb DPS is higher even though you spend a gcd for refreshing.
 
2. Howto snapshot

 

This section explains when you have to refresh your bomb. The rules are different between Single-Target and Multi-Target fights. I assume the use of  ability_mage_livingbomb.jpgLiving Bomb for single-target and spell_mage_nethertempest.jpgNether Tempest for multi-target fights. See Koviko`s Magebomb by Encounter List for magebomb choice in SoO.

 

2.1. Single-Target (General)

 

"Snapshot (refresh) your bomb, if your current bomb has less than 6 seconds left."

 

Applies to:

ability_creature_poison_06.jpgToxic Power from inv_jewelry_orgrimmarraid_trinket_13.jpgKardris' Toxic Totem
inv_misc_gem_bloodstone_01.jpgExpanded Mind from inv_jewelry_orgrimmarraid_trinket_07.jpgPurified Bindings of Immerseus
spell_holy_mindvision.jpgExtravagant Visions from inv_jewelry_orgrimmarraid_trinket_15.jpgFrenzied Crystal of Rage 

trade_alchemy_potiond4.jpgPotion of the Jade Serpent from trade_alchemy_potiond4.jpgPotion of the Jade Serpent

trade_engineering.jpgSynapse Springs

inv_misc_thread_01.jpgLightweave Embroidery

spell_shaman_spiritlink.jpgJade Spirit from inv_misc_enchantedscroll.jpgEnchant Weapon - Jade Spirit (Under discussion)

 

2.2 Single-Target (Exceptions)

 

inv_legendary_sigilofpower.jpgWrath of the Darkspear from inv_jewelry_orgrimmarraid_trinket_02.jpgBlack Blood of Y'Shaarj
This one is tricky but basically the best DPS itself comes from refreshing a single target DoT at 4 sec, then refreshing it again at < 1 sec. This allows you to get stacking effect in the middle and a huge one before it expires.

 

spell_nature_invisibilty.jpgTempus Repit from inv_legendary_chimeraoffear.jpgSinister Primal Diamond

Snapshot immediately and before proc expires
 
spell_nature_bloodlust.jpgBloodlust / ability_mage_timewarp.jpgTime Warp
Snapshot immediately and before proc expires
 
2.3 Multi-Target (General)

 

"Snapshot every proc immediately."

 

Applies to:

All procs from Single-Target (General + Exceptions).

 

2.4 Multi-Target (Exceptions)

 

Some Minor procs are not worthful to be snapshotted immediately in Multi-Target Fights. This would be:

 

trade_engineering.jpgSynapse Springs

inv_misc_thread_01.jpgLightweave Embroidery

spell_shaman_spiritlink.jpgJade Spirit from inv_misc_enchantedscroll.jpgEnchant Weapon - Jade Spirit

 

4. Differences between spec/bomb

 

I am not sure about this section, but I could imagine that snapshotting with mastery build is slightly different to haste build.
 
5. Addons

 
For optimal snapshotting you need to monitor your procs and their internal cooldowns, so you know when to snapshot. There a several addons available which help monitoring your procs:

 

Power Auras Classic 
Weak Auras 2
ForteXorcist

 

If you want to know, how much stronger your bomb would be after getting a proc, you can use affdots with mage plugin. WARNING: This addon will not tell you when to snapshot! (Even if the colors indicate otherwise). It just gives you the information, how much stronger your bomb would be, in comparison to your active one. You still have to use your brain and monitor your procs.

 

 
 6. Questions & Answers

 

Q: Snapshotted Toxic Power, immediately after that, Expanded Mind procs. What shall I do?
A: I don't know, need help from community.
 
Q: 2 Fingers of Frost are up and I get a Proc. What do I cast first, Mage Bomb or Ice Lance?
A: I would say refresh Mage Bomb, than cast Ice Lance because you can't get another FoF in the meantime (except Frozen Orb is active)

Edited by Oltier
Outdated by Patch 6.0

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Hi there - I support this endeavor. Here's some of my input so far:

 

Toxic Power from Kardris' Toxic Totem:

Snapshot if bomb duration < 6 seconds and before proc expires ?

That's what I would do.

 

Expanded Mind from Purified Bindings of Immerseus:

Snapshot if bomb duration < 6 seconds and before proc expires ?

That's what I would do.

 

Extravagant Visions from Frenzied Crystal of Rage

Snapshot if bomb duration < 6 seconds and before proc expires ?

I'd refresh immediately because if you use FCoR you are in a cleave/AoE scenario where you benefit so much from your mage bomb that it is always worth the GCD to gain the damage, which will then proc the trinket itself-- when using FCoR I snapshot at any buff proc almost as soon as the proc comes up.

 

Wrath of the Darkspear from Black Blood of Y'Shaarj

Don't have any idea, since the int proc grows ?

This one is tricky but basically the best DPS itself comes from refreshing a single target DoT at 4 sec, then refreshing it again at < 1 sec. This allows you to get stacking effect in the middle and a huge one before it expires. If multiple targets, try to ramp-up your DoTs for as much of the duration as possible, i.e. on Fallen Protectors w/14242+ haste:

0:00 - Cast NT on Rook

0:03 - BBoY procs

0:04 - Put NT on He

0:05 - Put NT on Sun

0:06 - Put NT on Rook

0:07 - Cast something else

0:08 - Cast something else

0:09 - Cast something else

0:10 - Snapshot refresh on He

0:11 - Snapshot refresh on Sun

0:12 - Snapshot refresh on Rook

 

Tempus Repit from Sinister Primal Diamond

Snapshot immediately and before proc expires ?

That's what I would do, re-snapshot on all targets when it procs and before it ends.

 

Bloodlust / Time Warp

Snapshot immediately and before proc expires ?

That's what I would do, re-snapshot on all targets when it procs and before it ends.

 

Potion of the Jade Serpent from Potion of the Jade Serpent:

Snapshot if bomb duration < 6 seconds and before proc expires ?

That's what I would do, it should last 26 sec though with good Alter Time usage, which means you can comfortably get 2 full duration NT/LB's and snapshot a third. So refresh immediately, let tick to ~1 sec, refresh again, let tick to ~1 sec, refresh a third time. Mages lose a lot of DPS by not coupling their potion with Alter Time.

 

Synapse Springs

Don't know if it is worth snapshotting ?

Night elves shouldn't be engineers, I wouldn't know.

 

Lightweave Embroidery from Lightweave Embroidery

Don't know if it is worth snapshotting ?

It's worth it - 6 sec rule like Toxic Power.

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Night elves shouldn't be engineers, I wouldn't know.

Why not exactly? :P

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Extravagant Visions from Frenzied Crystal of Rage

Snapshot if bomb duration < 6 seconds and before proc expires ?

I'd refresh immediately because if you use FCoR you are in a cleave/AoE scenario where you benefit so much from your mage bomb that it is always worth the GCD to gain the damage, which will then proc the trinket itself-- when using FCoR I snapshot at any buff proc almost as soon as the proc comes up.

 

 

I'm wondering if I divide the howto section into single-target and multi-target. Would you agree, that in a multitarget fight you snaphot every proc immediately? 

 

Do you have input for section 4? Are there differences between specs / builds or can I remove that section?

Edited by Anderson

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I'm wondering if I divide the howto section into single-target and multi-target. Would you agree, that in a multitarget fight you snaphot every proc immediately? 

 

Do you have input for section 4? Are there differences between specs / builds or can I remove that section?

Yes. Your guide seems to postulate that FCR is used in a single-target environment. For a single-target environment you are correct, but for multitarget Akraen's suggestion is more appropriate. Keep in mind that for a proper AoE fight Nether Tempest damage can easily become 35-45% of your damage.

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Yes. Your guide seems to postulate that FCR is used in a single-target environment. For a single-target environment you are correct, but for multitarget Akraen's suggestion is more appropriate. Keep in mind that for a proper AoE fight Nether Tempest damage can easily become 35-45% of your damage.

 

Just to be clear. I want to know if you snaphshot EVERY proc (not FCR specific) immediately in a multi-target fight. Would be less work to write that instead of an entry for multi-target fight for each proc. 

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Just to be clear. I want to know if you snaphshot EVERY proc (not FCR specific) immediately in a multi-target fight. Would be less work to write that instead of an entry for multi-target fight for each proc. 

With Nether Tempest? Yes. All of them except Lightweave/Jade Spirit, depending on the remaining duration.

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The general rule states that to snapshot (if i'm reading correct) when the bomb is less than 6secs.  Is this a no matter what? or should generally allow the bomb to tick down and explode? or is the explode negligible nowadays?

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The explosion means nothing in the grand scheme. A PBoI proc up for just one LB tick that has been snapshotted would likely outdo the final boom had you left it go.

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The explosion means nothing in the grand scheme. A PBoI proc up for just one LB tick that has been snapshotted would likely outdo the final boom had you left it go.

ah gotcha,  they mustve knocked the explosions down alot since wotlk.  Well thanks OP also for putting this on here.  Helps explain alot

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All of them except Lightweave/Jade Spirit, depending on the remaining duration.

 

I am not sure, if I understood that completely. Does it mean you snapshot the minor procs not immediately but if bomb duration < 6 second or you don't snapshot them at all in Multi-Target Fights?

 

Updated the guide to reflect difference between single- & multi-target fights.

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Don't forget about AffDots in your addons section

 

That's a nice addon, however is it only for warlocks?

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There is a mage plugin for affdots. I am currently testing it and give you my feedback afterwards.

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No. Just ignore Lightweave and Jade Serpent, refresh bombs when they are about to expire as you usually would, the chance is high that they'll still be up. The only reason you refresh NT immediately when you have larger procs in an AoE or cleave situation is the fact that NT hitting its second target is just insanely strong. Lightweave and Jade Serpent, however nice they are, simply aren't big enough to warrant wasting globals on. Keep in mind that time spent could also be spent on frosbolts, which cleave through icicles.

Basically the big question with snapshotting is always "if I snapshot now, what would I otherwise be doing?". We could probably make you a nice coloured per second chart based on all possible procs, but that would turn out very complicated too.

 

I could work out the maths for you but I believe you intent your guide to be simple? which means that you'll just have to accept that things are as they are.

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AffDots for mages came out last October, and I can really recommend it. It turns green if a snapshot will be stronger than the current bomb, and red if a reapplication will be weaker. It also shows a percentage for how much stronger or weaker the reapplication of the bomb will be. 

 

To use it, you need both AffDots and AffDots Mage.

 

Get these addons. They're good.

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I believe that the AffDots addon does not keep duration in mind though, merely raw damage per tick.

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AffDots keeps track of both int-procs and secondary stat procs when calculating the power of the next bomb compared to your current one. If I cast a bomb, and then pop Time Warp, AffDots tells me that reapplying the bomb would create a bomb worth 130% of the damage of the current one.

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Yes, that is haste, but not the remaining duration. The issue with that addon is that people just refresh whenever it is green. I would strongly advise people to just track their trinkets and procs with something like TMW and snapshot their bombs through actual thinking.

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Yes, that is haste, but not the remaining duration. The issue with that addon is that people just refresh whenever it is green. I would strongly advise people to just track their trinkets and procs with something like TMW and snapshot their bombs through actual thinking.

 

Tested it today and came to the same conlusion. I personally use Weak Auras 2 but I guess that is just a question of personal taste. 

Edited by Anderson

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No. Just ignore Lightweave and Jade Serpent, refresh bombs when they are about to expire as you usually would, the chance is high that they'll still be up. The only reason you refresh NT immediately when you have larger procs in an AoE or cleave situation is the fact that NT hitting its second target is just insanely strong. Lightweave and Jade Serpent, however nice they are, simply aren't big enough to warrant wasting globals on. Keep in mind that time spent could also be spent on frosbolts, which cleave through icicles.

Basically the big question with snapshotting is always "if I snapshot now, what would I otherwise be doing?". We could probably make you a nice coloured per second chart based on all possible procs, but that would turn out very complicated too.

 

I could work out the maths for you but I believe you intent your guide to be simple? which means that you'll just have to accept that things are as they are.

 

Corrected the guide accordingly. For your question about maths: I was thinking about a section about math as a proof of concept kind of way. If you have the time (and motivation) I very much like to see some small calculations (for multi-target as well as single-target). Maybe you contribute some for multi-target and Akraen one for single-target ?

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Yes, that is haste, but not the remaining duration. 

 

The addon shows remaining duration.

 

 

The issue with that addon is that people just refresh whenever it is green.

 

I think you underestimate people. I'm people, and I don't do that. This is not an addon that tells you what to do. It is a tool for information that can help you make the right decision about whether or not to snapshot.

 

I would strongly advise people to just track their trinkets and procs with something like TMW and snapshot their bombs through actual thinking.

 

If you remove the "just" part of your sentence, I completely agree with you. I use WeakAuras 2 to track trinkets and procs, and AffDots to see how much stronger the current procs would make my bomb compared to the one on the target. 

 

Using the two things together, I can easily see if it is worth overwriting my trinket proc bomb with a meta gem + Jade Spirit bomb.  I like the extra information from it to decide whether or not to snapshot. 

 

So if you don't want to use it, don't use it. But there's no need to tell people not to use it because you assume that they won't use it optimally. It's a good addon if you don't assume that it will tell you what to do.

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Last time I checked it shows remaining duration, but it does not use the remaining duration to calculate whether or not it is a dps increase to refresh the bomb. The danger with that is that it makes people think that a 10sec refresh for 2k extra spellpower is worth it. It generally makes people snapshot way too early. Now, this is okay for a warlock, because they have pandemic, but I wouldn't encourage it for mages.

 

Don't misunderstand me, if you want to use it then by all means do, I just think it's counterproductive to make a detailed per-buff snapshotting guide and then "recommend" that addon.

 

Edit: and yes, assuming people will not use it like that is a way of going about it, but I think Akraen wants to have a word with you about guide efficiency.

Edited by Kver

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@ Ghanjo and Kver: First of all thank you for your contribution, I do appreciate it. I added the following passage in the addon section: 

 

If you want to know, how much stronger your bomb would be after getting a proc, you can use affdots with mage plugin. WARNING: This addon will not tell you when to snapshot! (Even if the colors indicate otherwise). It just gives you the information, how much stronger your bomb would be, in comparison to your active one. You still have to use your brain and monitor your procs.

 

Everyone should be happy now smile.png

 

PS: I'm glad that this addons does not tell you when to snapshot, otherwise a lot of work would just go to waste biggrin.png

Edited by Anderson
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