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Grahmrook

Putting myself out there - healing evaluation

15 posts in this topic

Hey there all,

 

So I was looking at logs and measuring myself to Stoove.  And I was found lacking.  Help me out a bit to see how I can improve, at least on H Sha.

 

Here is the comparebot:

http://raidbots.com/comparebot/5311062174254ea50f000405#summary

 

Stoove's log:

http://worldoflogs.com/reports/9w7j75cb285smwqp/details/0/?s=2178&e=2614

 

Mine:

http://worldoflogs.com/reports/txja9tilkyjhmrts/details/5/?s=4260&e=4634

 

Stoove's Armory:

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/ghostlands/Stoove/advanced

 

Mine:

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/llane/Nitzi/advanced

 

Depending on when this is looked at, differences between my gear then and now, I had WF VotM shield (N), Marco's Gloves (H), and no set bonuses.

 

Stoove out healed my by ~21 Mil and 40k HPS.  The extra minute of the fight between the two of us should not have made that much of a difference and it looks like we are of equatable ilvl.  I am terrible at reading logs, pretty much don't get what its telling me beyond the front pages.  No, I do not use recall for mana, but along those lines I do not have much for mana issues. 

 

Thinking initially, one of my problems might be saving CD's for Oh S#!+ moments.  I believe I was glyphed CH, HST, SWG.  I would also like to know Stoove's guilds basic layout for the fight since I think that might also account for some differences.  Our strat keeps the raid pretty spread, so at best I *Might* be able to get 3 in HR, usually no more then 2 though. 

 

                   R

                 

 (0)    R               T    (0)                 Legend

                                                     T - Tank              

[H]                              T                 R - Ranged Dps

                Sha        H                     M - Melee Dps

    R                                   R          H - Healer (Druid)

                                                     [H] - Me

 (0)        M         M      (0)              (0) - Prisons reference

                              

                               R

 

                 Add

 

Sorry for the weak text layout, but wanted to show the spread.  These are usually our start positions, with a lot of movement to control rifts, adds, gift, and banish's.

 

Anyway, there is my question and request for help, so anything is appreciated.  I am looking to improve and apply lessons from this towards our current project, H Spoils.

 

Thanks

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I will look over your logs, etc and see what I can offer. I raid 25s but I'm familiar wth the 10 man mechanics. More to come:

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Comparing HPS to HPS really isn't a good idea, as there are so many factors that come into play, such as poor play requiring additional healing.  For example, Stroove's group seems to be really bad at dispells and they were taking 3.5x the damage from Mark of Arrogance.  That alone would make his every cast more valuable.

 

I also don't see you spending Ascendance at all.  It's a good CD to use to top people off after the latest Swelling Pride, as long as you time it right.  (IE: Prep for it w/ Riptides, hit Ascend, and then pre-cast a Chain Heal to land at the end of the cast for a huge bonus.)

 

Your play doesn't seem bad, but I'm poor at WoL healing analysis.

Edited by Hybrys

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1) you logged out in ele spec, so not sure what to offer as far as gear goes. I'm sure you're fine there with your level. Your gear is great, I see you've put a ton of work into it. Overall I think you are in good shape but since we're always looking for ways to improve:

My thoughts:

1) The glyph of HST is awesome in many fights, sha not being one of them. The majority of damage on sha is shadow, this not aided by that glyph.

2) I like using totemic persistence on sha, more of a play style thing so I can have the two water totems up with mana tide or the HST and HTT combo. That's more play style though.

3) your strat layout seems fine so no huge issues there.

4) Your HPS/log will improve when you log with the set bonus, it adds up to quite a bit for me on barrier.

5) you and your co-healer will have to dispel on cooldown for the whole fight. In 10 man I wouldn't be soaking rifts as a healer but we do in 25 man. This will force a sort of soft enrage mechanic where the dps has to get the boss to unleash before you and your partner overcome. Make sure that the dps are soaking a rift on cooldown and not doing so before swelling pride. A really good time is after the adds are spawned and given to tanks.

6) Are you using the Chaining Glyph? Can't tell due to your log out, it's not in your last set.

 

7) your hps is workable, but you could time it better with damage. When I have 10 sec or so left before swelling goes out and it's my turn to cd. I do the following: 1. HR on Melee or group with lowest health. 2. Healing tide 3 sec before swelling and 3. Last second dispel on the mark as swelling goes out. The key is having preemptive healing going out so the raid is topped off before it blows. This can be replaced with a SLT and ascendance if HTT is on CD.

 

8) You did a good job of keeping HR down, I'm guessing it was on the tanks though at least as far as what the logs show. It was like 86% over healing. Even if it hits fewer targets I would look at the damage taken logs and see which ranged could use a HR more effectively. I don't think any of your other healing was significantly over heal. If you have a group of ranged that are taking more damage it may be more worthwhile to keep HR on them. Even 2 targets would be worth the effort IMO, especially where you don't seem mana starved at all.


Last point. HPS comparisons are rarely if ever accurate. Too many variables as mentioned before. Help the raid out with mechanics such as pride management, time cool downs, and dispel like a mad man and this fight becomes easy. If the raid is ignoring rifts and letting people die playing PAC man, this fight blows. Good luck in there and I'll look this post over for clarity tomorrow as I'm asleepy now.

Edited by CptDan
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Excellent analysis from CptDan there :)

 

Comparing HPS to HPS really isn't a good idea, as there are so many factors that come into play, such as poor play requiring additional healing.  For example, Stroove's group seems to be really bad at dispells and they were taking 3.5x the damage from Mark of Arrogance.  That alone would make his every cast more valuable.

 

Actually, we're insane good at dispels but choose not to just dispel immediately. The Gift healer does all the dispels, which slows it down a lot. Still, that does mean that we do a lot more healing which explains rather a lot of the difference between myself and Grahamrook. Just wanted to point out it's a tactic, not a failure point ;)

 

I think that the major source of difficulty for you is the tactics (which I think I've told you before). We use extremely different tactics, where we stack loosely near the add spawn location. It's a damage taken / easiness tradeoff we choose to make, especially because then our AoE heals like HR, Chain Heal, and so on are much more effective.

 

In 10 man I wouldn't be soaking rifts as a healer

 

I disagree, I soak several each fight as a healer :)

 

I think all this goes to accentuate what Hybrys and CptDan said about just comparing the throughput - it's misleading, especially when your tactics are different!

 

Here is how I would approach your tactics on this fight:

 

I would glyph Totemic Recall, Chaining, and Riptide. Recall lets you gain a lot of mana back through the Magma Totem trick (place during the LMG proc, recall immediately after). Chaining means you get a nice big AoE heal, where you won't be able to use it otherwise on this fight. Finally, Riptide will keep the heals rolling on everyone - it's also important because it gives you as many Tidal Waves as you need, so you can spam GHW much faster. I also wouldn't be scared to use Healing Surge on this fight if using the Recall play (your mana should sustain it; if it is really needed to keep someone alive it's worth it!).

 

Personally, wouldn't bother with Healing Rain on that layout. It's not going to do enough healing to offset its own cost. Think of each cast of HR as 1.5 GHW's and see which you think is more worth the mana in this fight.

 

Good luck!

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@Stoove, Yes, with your strat of delaying the dispel for a bit you gain the ability to easily soak on CD if possible. For 25 man, you have to soak and dispel and then we call out when we're at ~85 pride or so, and the other healers have to step up. Typically a few healers lag behind because the dispels are done before they can get to them. I've been hitting about 85 or 90 pride before the reset. 

 

I didn't mention glyphing for recall because the OP stated that they aren't having mana issues. I myself didn't really run into very many mana issues on this fight either.

 

Strat differences can be huge, and they always come in the form of a trade off. To illustrate this we'll use stoove's raid strat. They are trading the increased damage for easier pride management. In return for having a bit more damage to heal through, the healers can focus more on mechanics (soaking rifts, etc.) and less on whether they are seeking out a projection or running away with aura. My raid team, the heals are instructed to run with high pride and manage the consequences so less damage is taken by the mark. I sincerely hope that WoD will bring more of those kinds of decisions to the table. 

 

We also loosely stack on the tanks during reflection. Once the adds are out and the tanks have aggro on them, they just take them down over time and the rest of the raid goes back to work on the rifts, the images, etc. 

 

So, more than one way of skinning a cat :)

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Also worth noting that the tactic we run with really helps us throughput because we get everyone inside the Healing Rain and [insert Paladin Spells Here]. When people dodge the splash damage all right, it's a really good tactic.

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Also worth noting that the tactic we run with really helps us throughput because we get everyone inside the Healing Rain and [insert Paladin Spells Here]. When people dodge the splash damage all right, it's a really good tactic.

 

This is the hallmark of a good raid leader (and healing coordinator if used). Being able to alter the strats to your current raid makeup. We struggle the most on managing the damage from the mark, in 25 man this damage becomes almost too much too handle if they aren't all cleared before swelling goes out. Thus, this is the crux of our raid strat. If mark is easier to heal through in your group, then by all means alter it. We have a hard time stacking simply due to having 25 people spread all over the room, so we are using single target heals with AOE only going out when we come near the boss to drop adds.

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Excellent analysis from CptDan there smile.png

 

 

Actually, we're insane good at dispels but choose not to just dispel immediately. The Gift healer does all the dispels, which slows it down a lot. Still, that does mean that we do a lot more healing which explains rather a lot of the difference between myself and Grahamrook. Just wanted to point out it's a tactic, not a failure point wink.png

Sorry, I should've worded it differently!

 

As Cpt mentioned, 25m is all about spamming those dispells, regardless of Pride gain.  Leaving them to the single Gift healer must atleast make the fight more entertaining.  I would still do that in 10m, it just makes Projections a mechanic the healers have to watch out for specifically, which you bypass with your strat.

Edited by Hybrys

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Sorry, I should've worded it differently!

 

As Cpt mentioned, 25m is all about spamming those dispells, regardless of Pride gain.  Leaving them to the single Gift healer must atleast make the fight more entertaining.  I would still do that in 10m, it just makes Projections a mechanic the healers have to watch out for specifically, which you bypass with your strat.

My raid leader would kick me in the shin if I suggested that we only let the gift healer do the dispel. It would be pretty funny though but I imagine after a few minutes everyone would be ticking 1-2 stacks of the mark. We usually only get 1 healer with gift each time so it would add up pretty fast.

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Yeah in 10s you only get two dispels per round, with one Healer with gift. That makes it very doable :)

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We dispell on CD, regardless of gift.  Our strat has a lot of motion.  We call out gift, so the three with it stack for the buff, then spread again.  Yes, projection is a mechanic we need to watch out for, but by the time Norushen dies, both healers are only at about 70ish corruption so it isn't a huge deal.  Again, to restate something I said in my OP, I think I need to use some of my CD's more liberally rather then saving for emergencies.  We do not usually have any issues, and if we do they are catastrophic failures which will result in a do over anyway. 

 

One side question: Potting.  I was reading another thread dealing with them.  Is there anything for resto to prepot?  I do not see how an Int boost would help at the start unless Fire Elemental benefits from it and your dropping him at the start of the fight.  Yus, I know his empower is great for healing too, but I honestly do not need him for some fights as we are still three healing some encounters. 

 

Thx!

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Is there anything for resto to prepot?

 

Only if you're needing to DPS at the start to meet a very tight enrage :) Otherwise it's redundant.

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Only if you're needing to DPS at the start to meet a very tight enrage smile.png Otherwise it's redundant.

This.  Fire Ele does benefit from Int Pots, and you can see a significant increase in your damage...  But it's rarely worthwhile or necessary.

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The only time i could see pre-potting helping a resto shaman in a healing role would be something crazy on the pull on malkorok. I don't really see this as worthwhile because your normal healing mechanisms should max out all of the shields anyway.

 

It would be interesting to see how much it added to the healing there though... maybe i'll do a test.

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