Crouchtech

Two Subtlety Questions

7 posts in this topic

(EDIT: the first question is concerning AOE, not single target)

1)  As a NON-combat rogue, once SND and Crimson Tempest are up, do I eviscerate or just keep spamming crimson tempest?  It seems like it would be bad to just keep spamming a dot but also eviscerate itself seems like a poor use of CP since its only single target.

 

2)  How do I manage shadow dance, vanish, prepration and shadow blades?  Seriously it's really confusing.  I read that I'm not supposed to use shadow blades when expose weakness up because it wastes some of the benefit but I also dont want to vanish/shadow dance unless premeditation is off cd right?  So I need to at lesat space out all the cds by like 30s.  It's really hard to manage and I can't seem to get an organized system for it.

Edited by Crouchtech

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Oh dear. I'm not sure who told you that Crimson Tempest is a part of the single target rotation, but it's very much not. I'm going to point you to the Subtlety Rogue guide here on Icy Veins, it has lots of great information on the basics and advanced tactics of the spec.

 

http://www.icy-veins.com/subtlety-rogue-wow-pve-dps-guide

 

I will address your second question, even though you can probably find the answer in the guide.

 

The subtlety cooldowns are a bit confusing on the face of them, but I'll lay them out as simply as I can. Due to the incredible uptime a subtlety rogue can get on Find Weakness, it is not a viable strategy to wait for the buff to drop to use Shadow Blades. It is a better strategy to use Shadow Blades whenever you use Shadow Dance. All Preparation does in DPS terms is reset the cooldown on your Vanish. Vanish gives you a chance to use Ambush and put up the Find Weakness buff again, so you should not use Vanish if Find Weakness is active.

 

I really recommend you take the time to go through the guide I posted for you, there's a ton of useful information in there.

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I see there's been some confusion so let me clarify:

 

Originally my topic title was a question about Sub AoE rotation and I realized I wanted to ask about layering CDs as well so I changed the title to "two sub questons".  I don't use CT in my single target rotation, that would be silly.  I'm asking specifically about AOE rotation in the first one, I guess I kind of thought it was obvious.

 

Also, I have read the guide and it did not answer my question definitively as it only mentions to keep up slice and dice and to use CT.  It doesn't answer whether to continually use CT even when the dot has sufficient time left on it.

Edited by Crouchtech

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Oh, my bad.

 

You will want to keep using Crimson Tempest over and over instead of Eviscerate when fighting 7+ enemies because even the initial damage from Crimson Tempest on all targets will exceed Eviscerate on one target. If you're fighting 4-6 enemies, then you can use it like a DoT as you mentioned; apply it once and Eviscerate until Crimson Tempest drops off.

 

I will look into clarifying that section of the guide, as the language is a bit murky.

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One cool tip that i know is in the guide. Make sure FW is already on the target and use your Vanish+Ambush at about 1 second so that the aforementioned ambush benefits from the damage increase of FW as well as refreshes it. Then do it again at 1 second once you've Prepped Vanish.

Edited by Watermasta

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Ugh I just realized I made another mistake in my original post:

 

"2)  How do I manage shadow dance, vanish, prepration and shadow blades?  Seriously it's really confusing.  I read that I'm not supposed to use shadow blades when expose weakness up because it wastes some of the benefit but I also dont want to vanish/shadow dance unless preparation is off cd right?  So I need to at lesat space out all the cds by like 30s.  It's really hard to manage and I can't seem to get an organized system for it."

 

The bolded should say premeditation not preparation.  I was basically asking if its ok to vanish/shadow dance even if premed isnt up yet and if there as an optimal chain of vanish/dance/prep to respect the cd on preparation.

Edited by Crouchtech

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Premeditation is too long of a cooldown to be structured seamlessly with your other stealth cooldowns, especially at the beginning of the fight:

 

00:05 - Shadow Dance + Shadow Blades + Premeditation

18 seconds of FW, you might have your Premeditation back by the time your next Subterfuge wears off.

00:23 - Vanish + Preparation + Premeditation

15 seconds of FW, you probably won't have your Premeditation back by the time your next Subterfuge wears off.

00:38 - Vanish

 

Keep in mind that this is ideal timing, realistically you likely won't get that much FW timing and you'll have to use your cooldowns faster, making it even less likely that Premeditation will be ready.

 

If there are holes in your opening FW buff then you might find your Premed available, but I would not recommend delaying any of your stealth damage cooldowns just for 2 combo points. If it's available, use it, if not then just be ready for the next one.

 

REMEMBER: Premeditation will NOT add Anticipation stacks. Be sure to only use it when you have 0-3 combo points.

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