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Raegna

askmrrobot VS icy-veins AM guide

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Hi fellows, once again this troublesome mage wannabe requests for your help!!

I decided to stick to Arcane Mage cause frost just doesn't work for me, I am getting far better numbers with arcane at ilvl 555 and to not give more bla bla bla, here is the issue that torments me:

 

Icy Veins guide (which I follow as if it was the holy sacred book) says "mage armor is your only armor of choice" (except for Galakras fight). Then, I get some cool stuff and I ask the Mr. Robot how could I optimize my gear, but then, once I reforge and gem strictly as it says, I compare my stats and realize it does it's "magic" using frost armor...

 

...I'm not sure what to do, 3k mastery is not something one would loose just like that and I am not so sure if the haste bonus would pay off. Sadly, as I am not the most accurate player out there I can´t compare my dps results even in the same boss while using one armor or another.

 

What do you guys think??

 

PS: Link to armory 

 

http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/gear/eu/tyrande/raegnarok

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If you go into the options beside "edit weights" you can choose to turn your armor to Mage Armor, if thats what Icy Veins thinks you should be doing. I'm not a mage though, so I don't have any insightful theorycrafting to explain which is better than which.

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Thanks for replying, I was already told in a previous post I could do that :), then then again, my question is "why does da´bot uses frost armor as preset armor for AM? I need a hand on this issue cause in my raid there is a lot of competition and I am the only mage so I really have to do the most damage possible!! (with the exception of Garrosh NM, sadly I am sent to do enginier, but that is a whole other issue I am dealing with!!)

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I'm not sure why Frost Armor is the standard, but I can assure you that Mage Armor is optimal in most if not all situations for Arcane. More mastery = more dps.

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It's rare to use frost armor as arcane, only for certain snapshotting situations.

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It's rare to use frost armor as arcane, only for certain snapshotting situations.

There are certain situations where Arcane can use Frost Armor in a single target situation for a theoretical DPS increase. For multi-target you'll always use mage armor though. I will try to dig up the sources that elaborate on that, I believe it is one of Cycobi's wicked creations.

 

With regards to the other question; AMR does that. I sometimes end up as a Frost mage using Molten Armor as well. You can simply change that by going to Options and selecting the correct one. 

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Yeah it's rare though - I know it's out there and I did a couple tests with frost armor but I have no conclusive data of my own to support or refute the theory.

 

I wish we had passionate arcane and fire mages, but they just don't exist. They reroll to whichever is higher DPS and don't care about the spec at a deep level like many frost mages do.

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Yeah it's rare though - I know it's out there and I did a couple tests with frost armor but I have no conclusive data of my own to support or refute the theory.

 

I wish we had passionate arcane and fire mages, but they just don't exist. They reroll to whichever is higher DPS and don't care about the spec at a deep level like many frost mages do.

Well, the basic idea is that at a certain amount of passive haste Frost Armor's multiplicative scaling will beat Mastery's static 3000. However, this literally only applies to pure patchwerk fights where you will always be casting your primary rotation without any form of interference.

 

It is also incredibly difficult to prove statistically, because even in a perfect situation the difference is quite small, which means that you will almost never be able to claim that a DPS increase is due to Frost Armor alone. 

 

The safest thing to do is to simply go with mage armor all the time; you'll want to use this on 13 out of 14 bosses anyway, so that 14th shouldn't matter. It also makes sure you simply don't have to care about the small delicacies of that level of min/maxing.

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Well, the basic idea is that at a certain amount of passive haste Frost Armor's multiplicative scaling will beat Mastery's static 3000. However, this literally only applies to pure patchwerk fights where you will always be casting your primary rotation without any form of interference.

 

It is also incredibly difficult to prove statistically, because even in a perfect situation the difference is quite small, which means that you will almost never be able to claim that a DPS increase is due to Frost Armor alone. 

 

The safest thing to do is to simply go with mage armor all the time; you'll want to use this on 13 out of 14 bosses anyway, so that 14th shouldn't matter. It also makes sure you simply don't have to care about the small delicacies of that level of min/maxing.

Well, I have done a few tests in ToT and dummy sticks (which I don´t take as "real" dps) with Frost armor I had several more procs of Arcane Miisiles, but as I don´t have the 4 piece tier maybe the use use such armor can´t be really measured by my actual gear (4 pc = even more AM spams--> more deep magic buffs--> more Arcane explosions...you know the drill) But so far I am having like 20k extra dps with Mage armor. I wish I knew how to read my logs to check that my rotations are done properly in every test/boss fight.

 

Today I did Horridon with frost armor and had 240ks or so, then I did HC Horridon with mage armor and was over 270k (both times I went full retard only focusing boss just compare dps in a more fair base) I hope some day I get my 4pc and give another shot, and if by any means an Arcane Mage reads this post please give us your toughts on this matter.

 

Thank you all for replying, by the way :)

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Well, I have done a few tests in ToT and dummy sticks (which I don´t take as "real" dps) with Frost armor I had several more procs of Arcane Miisiles, but as I don´t have the 4 piece tier maybe the use use such armor can´t be really measured by my actual gear (4 pc = even more AM spams--> more deep magic buffs--> more Arcane explosions...you know the drill) But so far I am having like 20k extra dps with Mage armor. I wish I knew how to read my logs to check that my rotations are done properly in every test/boss fight.

 

Today I did Horridon with frost armor and had 240ks or so, then I did HC Horridon with mage armor and was over 270k (both times I went full retard only focusing boss just compare dps in a more fair base) I hope some day I get my 4pc and give another shot, and if by any means an Arcane Mage reads this post please give us your toughts on this matter.

 

Thank you all for replying, by the way smile.png

Dummy tests are very inaccurate. The issue is that way more variables influence your DPS than you can test by simply doing 2 bosses. Like I said, I probably wouldn't advise using it either. It's very theoretical and that's not always a good thing.

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The idea in frost armor with arcane is as follows. You maximize dpet of all your spells (even LB which is gcd capped from the get go) on single target when you go with frost armor.

On multi target, barrage just takes over whatever minmaxing you were trying to do.

However, playing arcane with high haste is really difficult because of the many decisions you have to do and now you have less time to do them.

 

There's another incentive to use frost armor, but this is rare. If you have many items without mastery on them (which you shouldn't have), you can use frost armor and reforge the extra haste into mastery. When talking pure ratings, frost armor has more stats than mage armor, so it's beneficial.

Edited by lynx

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There's another incentive to use frost armor, but this is rare. If you have many items without mastery on them (which you shouldn't have), you can use frost armor and reforge the extra haste into mastery. When talking pure ratings, frost armor has more stats than mage armor, so it's beneficial.

If you have many items without mastery you should reforge into mastery and use mage armor. The less mastery you have, the stronger mage armor is relatively speaking.

Edited by Kver

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I remember one point when I could get more mastery by using frost armor, while aiming for 9762 haste.

But it requires really strange gear combination. Sadly, I can't remember the exact details sad.png I just remember that my gear was really weird then, like the guys who stuck at 17% hit and can't get it lower.

 

Now I just can't get lower than 13163 haste without not reforging from crit to haste, or blatantly reforging into crit from hit (instead of into haste). Since both alternatives are awful I just play this high haste arcane sometimes (when I want to mix it up). Having ~96% mastery is fun though, big hits make up for carrying that anchor with me tongue.png .

Edited by lynx

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