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Zagam

MoP Warlock Grimoire Selection/Pets

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Currently, Simulationcraft numbers are showing the following for Warlock Pets (based on spec)

Affliction

Grimoire of Sacrifice (+10k DPS)

Grimoire of Supremacy - Observer (+4.8k DPS)

Grimoire of Service - Felhunter (+4.1k DPS)

Grimoire of Supremacy - Shivarra (+3.3k DPS)

Grimoire of Service - Succubus (+3.0k DPS)

Grimoire of Supremacy - Voidlord (+2.9k DPS)

Grimoire of Service - Voidwalker (+2.3k DPS)

Grimoire of Supremacy - Fel Imp (+1.0k DPS)

Grimoire of Service - Imp (+0.4k DPS)

Demonology

Grimoire of Service - Felguard (+6.0k DPS)

Grimoire of Supremacy - Wrathguard (+4.7k DPS)

Grimoire of Service - Felhunter (+2.0k DPS)

Grimoire of Supremacy - Observer (+1.7k DPS)

Grimoire of Service - Succubus (+0.7k DPS)

Grimoire of Supremacy - Shivarra (+0.2k DPS)

Sacrifice, Voidwalker/Void Lord, and Fel Imp/Imp are all DPS losses

Destruction

Grimoire of Supremacy - Observer (+3.9k DPS)

Grimoire of Service - Felhunter (+3.7k DPS)

Grimoire of Supremacy - Shivarra (+2.3k DPS)

Grimoire of Sacrifice (+2.3k DPS)

Grimoire of Supremacy - Void Lord (+2.2k DPS)

Grimoire of Service - Voidwalker (+1.7k DPS)

Grimoire of Supremacy - Fel Imp (+1.1k DPS)

Grimoire of Service - Imp (+0.8k DPS)

To summarize, here should be your selections:

Affliction : Grimoire of Sacrifice - use Felhunter pet

Demonology : Grimoire of Service - use Felguard

Destruction : Grimoire of Supremacy - use Observer

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Thanks for that! I found myself using Simcraft more and more with the beta. I don't know how we could have figured out stat weights and the proper rotation without it ;)

By the way, the rotations for Demonology and Destruction are not optimal, I managed to gain a few hundred DPS by tweaking them around to simplify them :P

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I'm currently dabbling in Simcraft myself (an amateur at best) and find it can be an INCREDIBLE tool to validate stat weights. Right now, Simcraft is using Haste>Crit>Mastery for Demonology to balance the fact there was a bug in the beta build that Blizz put out. Now that it's corrected, Simcraft is showing Demonology at the low end of the damage while it's actually higher than they show because they've not corrected the stat weights. Seems silly on their part that I can find those errors while working full time (I do fiddle with WoW at work =D) while they spend a majority of their time on it but don't find those mistakes.

What REALLY irks me is this simulated dialogue...

Blizz: Warlocks, we have something incredible for you in Mists of Pandaria!

Warlocks: You're nerfing Mages?

Blizz: You get new pets!

Warlocks: NEW MINIONS TO COMMAND?! Reserving MoP RIGHT NOW!

Blizz: Yeah! We're giving you a Paladin-type immunity, an instant fear, and simpler rotations! Oh, and we're giving you the ability to be good without super hard work! How about that?

Warlocks: <3 Thank you so much...Cata has been hard, but the pains will be worth it if we get to rock in MoP!

*Warlocks run simulation numbers*

Warlocks: Hey, about those pets....why do they suck?

Blizz: Oh...hey, about that...um, well...we were hoping you wouldn't notice behind how awesome they look!

Warlocks: I just can't figure out why my Wrathguard's Wrathstorm is doing 47% less damage than my Felguard's Felstorm...

Blizz: Um...well...doesn't he look AWESOME?

Warlocks: Yeah, and like...if I play Affliction, it feels wrong that sacrificing my pet is the best option for me to compete with Mages. Aren't us Warlocks all about dark magic and commanding the demons from Hell?

Blizz: Dude, check out how awesome your Wrathguard swings his polearm! Or that Bryntroll you picked up! Doesn't he look just MAGNIFICENT?

Warlocks: Hey, wait...come back!

Blizz: *Runs away* "BONESTORM!!!!!

Warlocks: /sad face

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Haha!

Still, you have to admit that Warlocks specs have really gotten a lot of attention from the dev. They actually feel like the type of class I'd want to play as my main. I can assure you that it wasn't the case before :P

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Yeah I've heard plenty of classes talk about the buffs and nerfs and so on and how Warlocks are interesting. Since we've been the least represented class since I've been playing, I think they're trying to draw more attention to them. I fear, however (no pun intended) that we will only be the subjects of people complaining how OP we are now. In fact, if you type that into Youtube, you can see the nerd rage has already begun. We'll see how the next 4 weeks of live testing comes around.

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Warlocks look really fun in MoP. Sacrifice is such a boring talent. Who wants to play a lock with no pet?

Really hoping pet damage is as normalised as it can be, so we can choose the pet based on it's extra utility as opposed to one doing slightly more damage than the other.

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Warlocks look really fun in MoP. Sacrifice is such a boring talent. Who wants to play a lock with no pet?

Really hoping pet damage is as normalised as it can be, so we can choose the pet based on it's extra utility as opposed to one doing slightly more damage than the other.

Completely agree with you on sacrifice. I'm a Warlock. It's my minion, and I want it now!

Pet damage variances are still somewhat large, so you'll be forced to play with a Felhunter/Observer for Affliction and Destruction while Demonology will finally be able to use a Felguard/Wrathguard full time.

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Sorry to dig up such an old thread, but it showed up when I was google searching this topic. I'm questioning whether there's an actual dps decrease if you sacrifice a different pet, because my raid's locks have been sacrificing our Voidwalkers for more health gain, and shadow bulwark shield cd.

The only time I sac my felpup is if I need his spell lock.

There is not a dps difference is there?

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As far as I know there's not a DPS difference, the abilities you get from each pet sacrifice don't directly effect DPS.

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Sorry to dig up such an old thread, but it showed up when I was google searching this topic. I'm questioning whether there's an actual dps decrease if you sacrifice a different pet, because my raid's locks have been sacrificing our Voidwalkers for more health gain, and shadow bulwark shield cd.

The only time I sac my felpup is if I need his spell lock.

There is not a dps difference is there?

There is absolutely no gain or loss in DPS sacrificing different pets. If you want a cleanse, take the Imp. If you want an interrupt, sacrifice your puppy. Health CD? Send your Voidwalker back to the void. Succubus gives you nothing worth talking about. Too bad you don't get Whiplash. The developers really missed out on an option there instead of Seduce.

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The developers really missed out on an option there instead of Seduce.

aww, c'mon. who wouldn't want a channeled CC that makes you vulnerable to attack?

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aww, c'mon. who wouldn't want a channeled CC that makes you vulnerable to attack?

Anyone who wanted to suck in PvP.

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Completely agree with you on sacrifice. I'm a Warlock. It's my minion, and I want it now!

Well, I think of it slightly differently. What do I care about my minion? Of course I'll sacrfice it in order to boost my own power! Hunters bond with their companions. We use ours as disposable tools.

But regardless, this tier in the talent tree is the big area where Blizzard failed to meet to their goals for the revamped talents. It seems to be the only tier where each spec has a clear preference (although for Demonology the difference between Supremacy and Service is small).

Blizzard's goal was to have tier choices be based on prefrence and/or specific fight mechanics - and in this case that didn't come true. Overall though, only having that be the case for one tier isn't too bad. But I imagine that if Blizzad does feel a need to modify the warlock class further, that tier may be in line for adjustment.

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The entire talent system is being re-worked for 5.2. Ghostcrawler said exactly what you said, that choices are too limited. There is a cookie-cutter based spec and that's that. Find me a PvP Warrior who didn't take 2nd Wind. Affliction can't use anything except Sacrifice due to the DPS difference. It's lame...so we'll see what 5.2 brings.

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Well, I read some interviews with GC where they said they'd look into some talents - I didn't get the impression that the 'entire' system is being re-worked My impression is that they'll be looking at specific 'tiers' that are mandatory for some classes - like the 'Grimoires' for warlocks (although that wasn specifically mentioned). I think with the exception of that one tier warlocks are a good example of what they're going for. I've been reading your raid guides, and I noticed you're often switching between talents and glyphs based on sepcific fights, which is the type of thing you're looking for (some of it was written before the change to Kil'jaedan's Cunning).

And there's always the chance that despite their intentions, they decide they can't touch that tier for 'locks without doing more harm than good. And let's face it - the simplest change would be just to nerf Sacrifice's damage and then buff the pet's damage in return - which would stil leave Demonology where it is.

For raiding however, I feel like that even if they make changes to make Sacrifice equal with the other two - in most cases Sacrifice is going to be the way to go. That way you get the same DPS, and you don't have to deal with the pet AI and making sure it's attacking the right target or not standing in bad stuff. Other than the imp's buff (which is readily available elsewhere) none of them really bring much in the way of utility that a raid might need. Sure, having an interrupt or cleanse is nice in some PvE situations - but as of right now the warlock gets those when they sacrifice the pet (and again in a raid there are usually other people that have better tools to handle those situations).

So unless that tier is overhauled, it's hard to imagine a situation where Sacrifice wouldn't be the preferred option in most caes as long as the damage is equal. The only way it seems like you'd ever want to use the pet is if the damage is signfificantly higher than what you'd get if with Sacrifice, and that just is the same problem reversed.

Edited by Stunlocked

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Agreed. Who knows the direction they will take. I know that they don't utilize the PTR for what it should be used for anymore. They test things on live servers. See: Mages, particularly Fire.

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How has this changed with 5.2? I 'm hearing supremecy is best, then sac? which is best? This is for affliction spec

Edited by Jasa111

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Aff: Sac is just BARELY ahead of Service and Sup...they are all very close, which is how it should be.

Demo: Service and Supremacy are just BARELY ahead of Sacrifice. Yes, Sacrifice is viable for Demo.

Destro: Supremacy = Service >>>> Sacrifice. Sacrifice is bad for Destruction.

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Aff: Sac is just BARELY ahead of Service and Sup...they are all very close, which is how it should be.

Demo: Service and Supremacy are just BARELY ahead of Sacrifice. Yes, Sacrifice is viable for Demo.

Destro: Supremacy = Service >>>> Sacrifice. Sacrifice is bad for Destruction.

I actually felt that a mastery>=haste>=crit reforge for Destruction didn't make Sacrifice that bad in comparison to the other two. Also my sims are not far off with such gearing strategy.

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