Zagam

ITEM SQUISH PICTURES

24 posts in this topic

Obtained from Mouse on Reddit forum page...

 

http://i.imgur.com/3EO0RRe.jpg (Agi gem reduced from 160 to 8)

http://i.imgur.com/d8ogsOr.jpg (Crit gem reduced from 320 to 16)

http://i.imgur.com/nHExN8s.jpg (hybrid gem reduced from 80/160 to 4/8)

 

http://i.imgur.com/i9fvJt7.jpg 553 Gaze of Arrogance

http://i.imgur.com/TbOol4O.jpg 600 Legendary Cloak (32 stats, down from 919!)

http://i.imgur.com/PdaLPir.jpg Purified Bindings gives +87 Amplify now!

http://i.imgur.com/M4PalYx.jpg KTT - +77 Multistrike

http://i.imgur.com/kn2r8MG.jpg Black Blood - max proc = 920 Intellect (think Unbound Will from Dragon Soul!)

 

Lots of squishies going on - looks to be about 5% for gems and around 3-5% for most items.  This should put a 400k single target DPS parse around 20k going forward meaning you're being sent back to early Firelands progression/late Bastion of Twilight/Blackwing Descent levels. 

 

Multistrike makes all hits hit more than once similar to what KTT does now.  Multistrike can appear on multiple pieces of gear.

Amplify amplifies stats similar to what PBI does now.  Amplify can appear on multiple pieces of gear.

Cleave does splash damage similar to what Frenzied Crystal of Rage does now.  Cleave can appear on multiple pieces of gear.

 

So far, I can't tell what Expertise has become, but based on pictures, all of your Hit gems will convert into Crit when 6.0 launches.  I'll keep looking to see what Expertise gems turn into.

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I feel so violated by the low-ness of these numbers.... Nevertheless, I trust that it's not a nerf. lol.

 

 

Also, I find it really odd that they're converting hit to crit. I feel like if they do this to exp( as in exp -> crit as well), it could become really really imbalanced, if only for a little while. Then again, balance at xpack launch is never really something that's been a huge huge concern.

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  • Expertise Increases expertise by 4. Increases haste by 4.
  • Expertise Increases expertise by 2. Increases haste by 2.
  • Expertise Increases expertise by 14. Increases haste by 14.

 

From MMO-C. Looks like hit to crit and exp to haste

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Have they mentioned what will happen to intellect on gems etc. Is this going away in the pre-patch, or only as we look forward to 91+ content.

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Intellect?  Intellect is staying.  All of your 160 Intellect gems become 8 Intellect.  All of your 80 Int/160 Haste gems become 4 Int/8 Haste.  All your Expertise/Mastery gems become 8 Haste/8 Mastery.  All of this will go live in 6.0.  SoO will be the first raid to test the squish.

 

By my calculations, very rough, 400k DPS will become closer to 15-20k.  Since this is a squish of about 95%, we're looking at something like 20 man Mythic Siegecrafter going from about 1B to 50M.  If the raid averages 15k DPS, with 2 tanks, 4 heals, and 14 DPS, you'd be looking at 50,000,000 / (16 * 15000) = 208.33 seconds, or 3.47 minutes.  This is a slight under calculation with DPS or the HP scaling, but this is roughly how they will squish it down.  Should be common to see bosses in WoD hit 100M, but not in SoO.  If they do things right, the amount of time you kill things the week before SoO should match identical to the week after 6.0 launches.

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By my calculations, very rough, 400k DPS will become closer to 15-20k.  Since this is a squish of about 95%, we're looking at something like 20 man Mythic Siegecrafter going from about 1B to 50M. 

 

Not to be nitpicky, but is this counting, or ignoring the 5100 (so.... 255 post squish) extra secondary stats we're gaining?

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Nitpick all you want - I don't know exact values which is why the last value was estimated.  Estimating between 15 and 20k DPS right now seems like such a small number, but back in Firelands, 20k got you into a group, 15k got you benched.  It's a 33% variance at 15k and a 25% variance at 20k.  The gems are being squished down to 5% of their value, but a lot of gear is being squished down between 3 and 5%.  The overall numbers are GROSS estimations, so read what you want with a grain of salt. 

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Intellect?  Intellect is staying.  All of your 160 Intellect gems become 8 Intellect.  All of your 80 Int/160 Haste gems become 4 Int/8 Haste.  All your Expertise/Mastery gems become 8 Haste/8 Mastery.  All of this will go live in 6.0.  SoO will be the first raid to test the squish.

 

 

Are they staying at Int, Int/Mastery, etc ... are are they just going to be Primary/Mastery?

 

I thought Int, Str, and Agi were going to change dynamically based on spec.. implying gems could be the same.  Would probably help the Gem bloat as well as make gem value be more universal vs having 75% of the cuts never used.  I have not read anything specific to profession changes so I am not sure.

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Sorry, I thought they said gems would be only secondary stats. Same as enchants are only secondary.

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All your Expertise/Mastery gems become 8 Haste/8 Mastery.

 

Strange that they'll have the doubled colours like that (yellow + yellow, but counts as yellow or blue). When looking at all the squished gems on the wod.wowhead website they all seem to be exactly as you mentioned. The weird thing is that things such as 8 Crit / 8 Hit gems don't turn into 16 Crit, but simply become 8 Crit gems, and thus will never ever be used. Very odd.

 

 

Edit: Actually, the Haste/Expertise one becomes 16 Haste, but the Crit/Hit one becomes 8 Crit. Silly Blizzard, I guess they'll be fixing that.

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I still don't understand why they are doing this.  I know it doesn't matter, but still wondering "why"

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I still don't understand why they are doing this.  I know it doesn't matter, but still wondering "why"

 

 

Technical issues mostly. Right now the 25m input lag from trying to crunch so many large numbers is bad, going forward it would be soul crushing. Some QOL things also, like being about to read and understand logs/dps/hps, etc.

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I still don't understand why they are doing this.  I know it doesn't matter, but still wondering "why"

You know how Garrosh starts at 100%, gets DPS'd down to 10%, goes back up to 100%, back down to 10%, back up another 20% and then finally dies? Normally that would be handled by us DPSing him down to 50%, phase change, dps down to 25%, phase change, finally kill the boss. His health is already so high, though, that they couldn't set it high enough to allow for those kinds of phase changes and simply had to heal him back up after transitions.

 

That's one of the many reasons for the stat squish.

Edited by Belloc

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As LockyBalboa said, it's mostly technical issues.  They had 2 options with the change.  1) Scale back and give us the numbers you are seeing in the pictures being linked or 2) Scale the numbers back still but add an "M" after the number that stood for Mega as in 10^6.  

 

Personally, I'm glad they chose the former.

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Mind moving this to Warlords of Draenor section, Zagam? It's very helpful info for everyone.

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The stats seem so low now! tongue.png

And I think the best place for the thread would be the Warlords of Draenor subforum. This is pretty useful information for everyone.

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I can - I picked Warlock specific stuff.  Is it possible to just make a copy of a forum?  I think so - let me try.

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I'm really glad they are squishing the stats. The numbers seem easier to read at a glance. What is the difference between a crit of 4175289 and 42598275 at a glance. It's easier to read and  understand at a glance.

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I'm really glad they are squishing the stats. The numbers seem easier to read at a glance. What is the difference between a crit of 4175289 and 42598275 at a glance. It's easier to read and  understand at a glance.

Hey man, you forgot the commas!  Commas make it so easy to decipher. 

 

4,175,289 and 42,598,275 are VERY different and easily distinguishable with newly added commas.  The problem is the exponential growth and the massive amount of combat data being processed slowing down raids.  Perception of the amount of damage should be of no issue.

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Very interesting, thanks for posting.

 

I actually feel like if we end up doing 15-20k in SoO, the numbers by the end of WoD progression will still be extremely high, probably comparable to t14 or t15. In that case, one extra squish, or even a more permanent solution, might be necessary after WoD.

Edited by TLTeo

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Very interesting, thanks for posting.

 

I actually feel like if we end up doing 15-20k in SoO, the numbers by the end of WoD progression will still be extremely high, probably comparable to t14 or t15. In that case, one extra squish, or even a more permanent solution, might be necessary after WoD.

I wouldn't be surprised if we hit 100k dps by the mid to end of t18.

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I've had an idea for permanent squish that I came up with a while back, I'll have to dig it up. It's flaw was that people really wouldn't feel stronger as they levelled in comparison to fighting mobs of their level, but if they fought things under their level they certainly would.

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Since they are going for a mostly linear power progression until level 90, i think the best way to adjust things if it turns out the numbers are still too big is just to adjust that line's slope.

I actually feel like at some point in wow (i guess cata?) low level characters have become much, much more powerful, even without heirlooms. I have been levelling a monk (my first alt in years after an extended break) lately, and, for example, i was doing as much dps at level 60 as my mage did in early tbc progression. Somewhere in time the numbers must have gotten really inflated at every level.

Edited by TLTeo

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They've adjusted the line's slope, but it goes back to insane in WoD+, so they'll need to fix it again in 1-2 expansions after WoD. But they really could just make level adjusted slope that makes it a flat line with scaling in its own level based on ilvls by having old gear give a %'d reduction of what it truly gives you, and also make them do % damage to lower levels. Problem about it would be that every expansion youd be doing the same numbers to the same level mobs, you'd only feel more powerful to the things you used to fight last expansion. It'd be a fix, but people would feel like each expansion was just a content patch. It's really a tough system to balance

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