Kazistrasz

[Balance] Moonkin Info and Fixing Your DPS

74 posts in this topic

As of late, we've had some moonkin questions come through that we, as mods, haven't been the most able to answer, sadly. When people link longs, we we've been only able to answer some of the basics. FEAR NO MORE!

 

I got sit down with Dolson from <Vigil> (US#5 25-man), one of the top-rated boomkins in the US on Pro Raiders (and conviently on my server). We chatted about playing the spec and looking at logs, and I'm proud to present, with a combination of his assistance and comparing logs of several top-rated Boomkins, this guide to looking at your logs and fixing your own DPS!

 

Since its writing, I have also managed to contact Snigelen from <Method> to ask him to look through, and he's confirmed everything that has been said thus far. So, read on my fellow laser chickens!

 

If you are unfamiliar with logs, check out Zagam's guide to using Warcraft Logs!

 

DoTs

 

First thing we're going to look at is spell_nature_starfall.jpgMoonfire and ability_mage_firestarter.jpgSunfire uptime. If you're just starting on boomkin, work on getting to 90% uptime on both. If you're a bit more advanced, you want to push 95% or better. You want this uptime on basically every target you're going to have.

 

The next higher level of play is to go through and look for where you get spell_nature_invisibilty.jpgTempus Repit (legendary meta gem) procs. When it procs you should be refreshing both DoTs, with the uneclipsed DoT first. This does not need to be immediate, but you should absolutely refresh them at some point during the proc. The strength of our DoTs is less important than the frequency at which it ticks because ticks give us spell_arcane_arcane03.jpgStarsurge and our DoTs are secondary to it.

 

Cooldown Usage

 

This is more of a basic thing, but make sure you are using your cooldowns as much as you can. You should have one use of spell_nature_natureguardian.jpgCelestial Alignment and spell_druid_incarnation.jpgIncarnation each and one use for every three minutes the fight goes on.  If your fight goes for 3:45, you should see two uses of both. If the fight runs 7:30, you should see three uses of both.

 

Of course, you want to use our cooldowns intelligently. Know how long it takes your guild to kill a boss and plan your cooldowns accordingly. If your kills are between 4:30 and 6:00 in length, you want to use your cooldowns when your inv_jewelry_orgrimmarraid_trinket_07.jpgPurified Bindings of Immerseus procs again at around 4:00. If there's a particular phase where you can benefit from an extra damage increase (Berserker Stance on Nazgrim), consider delaying your cooldowns to line up with it.

 

You should have two uses of trade_alchemy_potiond4.jpgPotion of the Jade Serpent - one right before the fight (pre-pot) and one during the fight. Your second potion should either be used with spell_druid_incarnation.jpgIncarnation: Chosen of Elune and spell_nature_natureguardian.jpgCelestial Alignment or used when you need to burst something down mid-fight. This should be determined by your raid leader, but either way you should have both potions used.

 

While maybe not a real cooldown, ability_druid_starfall.jpgStarfall is an ability a lot of boomkins struggle with. You should see one use of ability_druid_starfall.jpgStarfall at the beginning of the fight, plus one for every time you use spell_nature_natureguardian.jpgCelestial Alignment, plus one for every time you enter ability_druid_eclipse.jpgEclipse (Lunar). Generally speaking, it should be used immediately unless you need to delay for something like adds spawning in a few seconds. You still want to use it when you have ability_druid_eclipse.jpgEclipse (Lunar) still up.

 

Nature's Grace Uptime and Eclipse Cycling

 

spell_nature_naturesblessing.jpgNature's Grace, the haste buff we get when we enter an ability_druid_eclipseorange.jpgEclipse (including from using spell_nature_natureguardian.jpgCelestial Alignment), is very important and needs to be at maximum uptime. This means that you need to be cycling between ability_druid_eclipseorange.jpgEclipse frequently.

 

On average, you should see 85% to 90% uptime on spell_nature_naturesblessing.jpgNature's Grace, with a small margin of error. If you're having to go handle add duty or otherwise lose time cycling, this may drop, but you do not want to be below 80%. If you are using the 5273 haste breakpoint, you will see approximately 10-15% less uptime on this.

 

This means our ability_druid_eclipseorange.jpgEclipse uptime should be about 30% for both ability_druid_eclipseorange.jpgEclipse (Solar) and ability_druid_eclipse.jpgEclipse (Lunar) for a combined 60%. Combined with approximately 10% uptime on spell_nature_natureguardian.jpgCelestial Alignment, we should see ourselves in an ability_druid_eclipseorange.jpgEclipse state about 70% of the time, absolutely no less than 65%. Again, adjust by approximately 10-15% with the lower breakpoint.

 

Starsurge Usage

 

spell_arcane_arcane03.jpgStarsurge is the biggest, most important part of our damage. It may not hit for several million like a warlock's Chaos Bolt, but it hits often enough to be our everything. Look at the number of times you cast spell_arcane_arcane03.jpgStarsurge, and look at the number of times you got a ability_mage_arcanebarrage.jpgShooting Stars proc. You want these numbers to be as close to equal as possible.

 

For a single-target fight, your goal should be to have as close to as many spell_arcane_arcane03.jpgStarsurge casts as ability_mage_arcanebarrage.jpgShooting Stars procs as you're going to get. Part of this depends on RNG (you can't help two procs within a tenth of a second of each other), but your goal should be to have on average 75% to 80% as many spell_arcane_arcane03.jpgStarsurge casts as you have ability_mage_arcanebarrage.jpgShooting Stars procs.

 

On a multi-target fight, because you have DoTs on multiple targets, you'll have more procs than you can actually handle. The more targets there are, the worse this gets. You should always have a bare minimum of about 60% as many spell_arcane_arcane03.jpgStarsurge casts as ability_mage_arcanebarrage.jpgShooting Stars procs even with several targets, with pushing closer to 70% being more ideal.

 

Whether or not to stop a cast for ability_mage_arcanebarrage.jpgShooting Stars has been discussed a lot, but Dolson's recommendation is simply to not do it unless you're really comfortable with the spec. Even when you're comfortable, he says he only does it if he can catch a cast at the very beginning (0.1-0.3 sec into the cast) or he's between ability_druid_eclipseorange.jpgEclipse states and really needs to avoid losing spell_nature_naturesblessing.jpgNature's Grace.

 

AoE/Hurricane/Astral Storm

 

You should basically almost never use these. If an add will live for the duration of our DoTs, you should be putting DoTs on it, prioritizing getting everything dotted up with your ability_druid_eclipseorange.jpgEclipse DoT before your non-ability_druid_eclipseorange.jpgEclipse DoT. If adds will not live long enough to DoT, and there are a lot of them (10+ ish), use spell_nature_cyclone.jpgHurricane/spell_druid_astralstorm.jpgAstral Storm. Dolson says he mostly only ever uses it for slimes on Dark Shaman and bombs on Heroic Siegecrafter.

 

Opener

 

I've mentioned it a couple times, but your opener is important. The very beginning of the fight should have trade_alchemy_potiond4.jpgPotion of the Jade Serpent and ability_druid_starfall.jpgStarfall already going when the pull and be hitting spell_druid_incarnation.jpgIncarnation: Chosen of Elune and spell_nature_natureguardian.jpgCelestial Alignment. Have your druid_ability_wildmushroom_a.jpgWild Mushrooms planted before the pull to pop during the pull in order to help make ICD trinkets like inv_jewelry_orgrimmarraid_trinket_07.jpgPurified Bindings of Immerseus drop and use ability_vehicle_sonicshockwave.jpgSolar Beam if you're not otherwise using it (off the GCD), because it provides an extra chance to proc trinkets. Use the solar opener.

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Hi, I had the opportunity to chat with Kazistras today and hopefully I can help with any questions and clear up some of the things that were posted here. I'll try to go in order from the top.

 

As far as DoTs go you're not aiming for 100% uptime at all costs, but it's correct that it should be fairly high probably the 95%+ that was mentioned in the above post. If you are just starting out in lower gear levels and can only reach the 5273 haste breakpoint mentioned in the balance guide, you'll have to refresh 2x per eclipse cycle to maintain decent uptime. Once you have enough gear to reach 10289 haste your eclipse cycles will speed up a lot and you're going to have to make some judgement calls on refreshing/clipping. I would say 4-5 is enough to move from neutral to a fresh eclipse and you can probably go as low as 3 seconds with a meta gem up and a shooting stars proc ready to go.

 

-on the comment about moonkin DoTs being weak, perhaps I gave the wrong impression. When compared to other classes its between Ele and shadow and I wouldn't say weak as hell specifically. Moonkin has top tier multidotting. A lot of players use AffDoTs and refresh when they see a green number, or refresh immediately on a big INT proc. Getting in the habit of doing this is bad  of course since it starts to cut into your Nature's grace uptime and number of nuke casts as Kazistras mentioned.

 

For the legendary caster gem I would not refresh DoTs immediately on a proc either. Ideally you should be getting a DoT refresh sometime during the duration. This plays into maximizing Nature's grace uptime by spending as few globals as necessary on refreshing or clipping DoTs and as many as possible on nuke spells. 

 

The uptime of NG will only be as high as the 80-90% mentioned in the above post with heroic seige gear. w/o the 10289 haste BP is much lower. 

 

Even if you have very little gear and can only meet the 5273 haste breakpoint there should never be a time where you are refreshing a DoT w/o nature's grace up. If you are ever doing this you're stagnating in one eclipse state too long.

 

For CD usage, especially Incarnation it's actually often unwise to use on CD. Mainly you want to make sure you have a meta gem proc up for the second use at minimum. The RPPM rate for the meta is fairly high so you shouldn't have to wait too long. You can wait for Purified Bindings of Immerseus depending on the fight as well if the fight is short enough to only get 2 sets of Incarnation and long enough for bindings to proc 3 times.  CD usage also varies a ton on different fights. For any encounter with a special mechanic like Berserker stance on general Nazgrim you should use the first Incarn on the pull and the second with the second berserker stance. I'd also reccommend saving it for the second bubble on Fallen Protectors, since it helps significantly with that 5+ target aoe that moonkins struggle with when they don't have CDs. 

 

On the topic of aoe, I believe most guilds tank the boss on the mine spawn for heroic seigecrafter and often have coordinated stuns and grips.  You can start to hurricane once the "bombs within the bombs" spawn from the 3 that you kill first. If your guild doesn't struggle with killing adds, just single target any that might get loose with starsurge procs and your eclipsed DoT and try to control the adds with vortex and typhoon. If your guild never struggles with the kinds of adds mentioned, its best to not aoe at all. It's really important to watch timers or boss health % and know when this kind of aoe is coming because you want to be in solar to aoe with hurricane, but can't sit around in solar waiting for adds to spawn either. If your guild is realllly struggling to kill any adds you can save starfall and pre place wild mushrooms where the adds will be tanked (helped a lot with thok bats to place during kite phase during progress), but this is rarely needed.

Edited by Dolson
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Great Guide Kazistrasz and Dolson! Thank you both very much for putting the time and effort to make this helpful guide!

 

Cheers ;D

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Hi Dolson! Welcome to IV!

 

Updated the guide with the extra bit of information. Hopefully we can word spread on this to help many more boomkins become OMQBBQLASERchickens.

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Hi Dolson! Welcome to IV!

 

Updated the guide with the extra bit of information. Hopefully we can word spread on this to help many more boomkins become OMQBBQLASERchickens.

Thanks! Sorry for the wall of text there I just wanted to make sure I didn't miss something important. I'll ask a couple of boomkin friends to look it over and to try to find any errors or anything I might have missed. 

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Fantastic, even better!

 

OMGBBQLASERchickens, assemble!!!

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First of all, thank you for putting so much effort and work into making a moonkin guide. As a fellow boomkin, I am very happy to see this. :D 

 

I have one question, though. Could one of you please elaborate on the statement beneath?

 

A lot of players use AffDoTs and refresh when they see a green number, or refresh immediately on a big INT proc. Getting in the habit of doing this is bad  of course since it starts to cut into your Nature's grace uptime and number of nuke casts as Kazistras mentioned.

 

 

 

I must admit I have never paid much attention to Nature's Grace, but definitely will now. :) So what I am asking is; clipping the dots, is it a bad idea since you'll spend GCDs to refresh dots, which instead could have been used for wrath/starfire/starsurge to get to the next eclipse? 

 

Is it always worth it to not clip the dots? Sometimes my AffDots tell me that refreshing the dots will deal 200% damage. 

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DoTs generally have low DPS across all DoT classes. The reason they're so good is that they do so much damage for one cast, meaning a high DPET (damage per execution time). When you clip them, you severely gimp that DPET. On top of that, using that GCD on the DoT doesn't actually increase DPS over what you're already putting out, whereas refreshing a DoT at the very end provides an increase over the lower DPS you're about to be doing when the DoT falls off. Not only is it not a DPS increase and a DPET gimp, you're losing DPS by not spending the time casting a better spell that contributes to cycling through Eclipes to renew Nature's Grace.

 

However, there occasionally are times where procs are so strong that the DPET increase is big. But, due to their low DPS, snapshotting DoTs as a boomkin is generally less based on the pure strength of damage they will do versus the speed of the DoTs. When you get a haste proc (lust, meta, etc.), you're still fine to wait until the DoT is going to fall off to refresh with the added haste.

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Is it always worth it to not clip the dots? Sometimes my AffDots tell me that refreshing the dots will deal 200% damage. 

 

Unless you need to move or you have a situation similar to this: 2-4sec on moonfire and sunfire, 1sec remains on meta gem, then overwrite (assuming you're in an eclipse and have NG up). It can be hard to decide sometimes, especially if you are getting a lot of extensions from crits, but the majority of the time you just want to wait for the last second or even let it fall off for a bit (see 2nd to last paragraph).

 

This is why I dislike the use of AffDoTs. It can be useful information to have, but you do not want to make decisions about DoTs with it because it cuts into the core goal of fast eclipse cycles and high nature's grace uptime. Kazistrasz also elegantly explained that you're actually losing damage from the first DoTs you applied (the ones you are clipping off) by clipping early.

 

I also noticed that I often find myself extending the eclipsed DoT a lot w/ starsurge and eclipsed nuke crits. This leads to a situations where the eclipsed DoT lasts much longer than the uneclipsed.  Pretend you are about to leave lunar with 6secs left on eclipsed moonfire and 2 on uneclipsed sunfire. Assuming your gear isn't awful (below 10289 haste, really low crit rating, etc), I would usually let this fall off for a few seconds and wait for solar eclipse. 

 

Thinking about it, it's very difficult to give everyone a set of ironclad rules about when to refresh DoTs. Last second  works a lot of the time, but there's situations where that's not ideal either as I explained above. I'd be interested in any specific questions, especially specific situations where you find yourself  questioning whether or not to clip.

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In regards to maintaining a 95% uptime on your dots how are most people balancing this?  Maintaining uptime on dots for a single target encounter is easy enough, I don't have any problem with that.

 

However lets say protectors for example.  Has at least 3 targets available at any given time.  Do you maintain your 95% uptime on all of these targets?  Or just your primary focus?  If you do maintain this uptime  on all are there specific addons you are using to help keep track of the extra targets being dotted or do you just cycle after your primary target dots fall?  Or is it better to just maintain this uptime on a single target that way you are focused less on cycling dots and more on switching through your eclipse cycles?

 

I feel like I have a pretty solid understanding of boomkin, but the multi-dotting area is where im a bit fuzzy.

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However lets say protectors for example.  Has at least 3 targets available at any given time.  Do you maintain your 95% uptime on all of these targets?  Or just your primary focus?  If you do maintain this uptime  on all are there specific addons you are using to help keep track of the extra targets being dotted or do you just cycle after your primary target dots fall?

 

The addon I like to use a tidy plates.  It makes all your dots appear over the targets head.  When you start seeing them drop, you can re-apply as necessary. 

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The addon I like to use a tidy plates.  It makes all your dots appear over the targets head.  When you start seeing them drop, you can re-apply as necessary. 

 

In ElvUI you can do the same.

 

Also in ElvUI (and im sure in other mods) you can move the "boss frames" that appear on the right of the screen and you can manually click them to target it.  They also have debuff icons on them so you can use it to see the duration of your DoT and refresh as they fall off.

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Use the solar opener.

 

Whats the advantage to solar opener?  I was under the impression that a Lunar opener was generally the favored route.

 

Also in regards to Celestial Alignment usage.  For clarification is it suggested that you use Incarnation and Celestial Alignment together at the start when you enter your solar eclipse?  I was under the impression that you use Incarnation at the start of the eclipse then as you leave the eclipse activate Alignment.

Edited by kinztz

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In ElvUI you can do the same.

 

Also in ElvUI (and im sure in other mods) you can move the "boss frames" that appear on the right of the screen and you can manually click them to target it.  They also have debuff icons on them so you can use it to see the duration of your DoT and refresh as they fall off.

Perhaps it has been fixed, but ElvUI always gave me trouble when you had to click on the target.  They didn't have the same priority settings that Tidyplates did.

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Whats the advantage to solar opener?  I was under the impression that a Lunar opener was generally the favored route.

 

Also in regards to Celestial Alignment usage.  For clarification is it suggested that you use Incarnation and Celestial Alignment together at the start when you enter your solar eclipse?  I was under the impression that you use Incarnation at the start of the eclipse then as you leave the eclipse activate Alignment.

 

That's for during the fight. The solar opener works differently from the lunar opener, and works well when you have RPPM mechanics (Legendary Meta Gem, KTT, etc.) that will proc immediately so that you can match them with your best damage via cooldowns.

 

Before the pull, set yourself into Solar eclipse (NOT one cast away like you do the lunar opener) and plant your Mushrooms under the boss.

 

Pre-pull: pre-potion, pre-Starfall, pre-Incarnation

 

On the pull: pop CA, Detonate mushrooms, and Solar Beam.

 

Moonfire > Starsurge > Starfire spam with SS procs until CA ends

 

Moonfire again before meta gem, RPPM trinket, etc. fall off, Starfall when first wears off

 

Wrath spam with SS procs when CA ends to push into Lunar Eclipse

 

Begin normal rotation, refreshing your DoTs as they wear off to not override the full snapshots.

 

 

Perhaps it has been fixed, but ElvUI always gave me trouble when you had to click on the target.  They didn't have the same priority settings that Tidyplates did.

 

TidyPlates and ElvUI will both require you to occasionally mouseover/target a nameplate to update - as I understand it there's a restriction to the game's coding that does not allow authors of addons to directly access debuff information and such about every target around you.

 

Essentially, when if you apply something while it's targeted, it will remember that and count down from that duration. If something refreshes, extends, or otherwise changes the duration of the debuff without you targeting it, having it as your focus, target's target, focus target, etc. (all the UnitIDs), it will not update until you mouseover it, set it to your target, focus, or the other UnitID. If you have a way of applying a debuff to everything in an area without them being targeted (like a warlock's Seed of Corruption or Fire and Brimstone Immolate), it won't show once applied until you do one of those things.

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Hi guys.

 

Since I've found a place where I can chat with advanced players, I'll take this chance wink.png

 

I'm playing a troll boomkin, recently our group managed to kill garrosh, and as we're about to start hc progress I'd like to reoptimize my gear. I'm not using any logs (but probably I should) but i'm under the impression that my crit rating is too high, cause i tend to get a lot of SS procs that i can't use. 

Currently I've got ~44% crit rating while raid buffed. Furthermore I guess i should go for 10k haste (now I've only got 5k cap) since my gear is pretty decent.

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/kazzak/Pnks/simple

 

However, I'd like to know how much crit is not too much? As I understand, after reaching hit cap I wanna go for haste cap, then crit and what's left - mastery.

 

I'd like to hear your opinion on this guys.

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Hi guys.

 

Since I've found a place where I can chat with advanced players, I'll take this chance wink.png

 

I'm playing a troll boomkin, recently our group managed to kill garrosh, and as we're about to start hc progress I'd like to reoptimize my gear. I'm not using any logs (but probably I should) but i'm under the impression that my crit rating is too high, cause i tend to get a lot of SS procs that i can't use. 

Currently I've got ~44% crit rating while raid buffed. Furthermore I guess i should go for 10k haste (now I've only got 5k cap) since my gear is pretty decent.

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/kazzak/Pnks/simple

 

However, I'd like to know how much crit is not too much? As I understand, after reaching hit cap I wanna go for haste cap, then crit and what's left - mastery.

 

I'd like to hear your opinion on this guys.

 

1. Your gear is more than sufficient for the 10289 haste breakpoint

2. You cannot get too much crit this tier without sacrificing something vital like a haste breakpoint

3. Have you tried using Askmrrobot to itemize your gear yet? I will try to walk you through it rq regardless, let me know if you get stuck.

-go to askmrrobot website and load up your character.

-hit update in upper left hand corner

-go to "edit weights" button in upper right side of screen

-change soft cap to 10289 for haste

-you  should have something that looks like this: http://i.imgur.com/vSyfJbJ.png

-click save

-click "optimize" and change gems and enchants accordingly

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In regards to maintaining a 95% uptime on your dots how are most people balancing this?  Maintaining uptime on dots for a single target encounter is easy enough, I don't have any problem with that.

 

However lets say protectors for example.  Has at least 3 targets available at any given time.  Do you maintain your 95% uptime on all of these targets?  Or just your primary focus?  If you do maintain this uptime  on all are there specific addons you are using to help keep track of the extra targets being dotted or do you just cycle after your primary target dots fall?  Or is it better to just maintain this uptime on a single target that way you are focused less on cycling dots and more on switching through your eclipse cycles?

 

I feel like I have a pretty solid understanding of boomkin, but the multi-dotting area is where im a bit fuzzy.

 

Dot uptime on every target will be slightly lower on multi-target fights. The multi-target (protectors-esque encounters) priority is Eclipsed DoT>starsurge procs>uneclipsed dot (dont forget starfall on CD as well). This means outside of your opener you always maintain the eclipse dot on all 3 bosses, use starsurge procs as the come if all targets are dotted, when no procs are coming in put up the uneclipsed dot until you get more procs. If all targets are dotted with both dots you then push a new eclipse with nukes. 

 

Also, not sure how to explain this exactly, but you shouldn't be putting up dots without nature's grace buff. If you find yourself redotting without nature's grace you're not pushing new eclipses quickly enough.

Edited by Dolson
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1. Your gear is more than sufficient for the 10289 haste breakpoint

2. You cannot get too much crit this tier without sacrificing something vital like a haste breakpoint

3. Have you tried using Askmrrobot to itemize your gear yet? I will try to walk you through it rq regardless, let me know if you get stuck.

-go to askmrrobot website and load up your character.

-hit update in upper left hand corner

-go to "edit weights" button in upper right side of screen

-change soft cap to 10289 for haste

-you  should have something that looks like this: http://i.imgur.com/vSyfJbJ.png

-click save

-click "optimize" and change gems and enchants accordingly

 

Yes, i'm aware of askmrrobot tool, and whole configuring system :)

Yesterday i've reforged for 10k haste cap, and set my crit cap for 35% after crit suppresion. I've found the haste bonus has changed my whole eclipse cycling, i'll have to get used to it :) 

However my original question was about crit rating - after a while of playing a boomkin i've got an impression that there should be theoretical crit cap, when going into crit is less effective than going into mastery. I've made some research on this topic, have found that it is actually true, but haven't found the breakpoint. Somewhere it was said that its ~12k crit rating.

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Yes, i'm aware of askmrrobot tool, and whole configuring system smile.png

Yesterday i've reforged for 10k haste cap, and set my crit cap for 35% after crit suppresion. I've found the haste bonus has changed my whole eclipse cycling, i'll have to get used to it smile.png

However my original question was about crit rating - after a while of playing a boomkin i've got an impression that there should be theoretical crit cap, when going into crit is less effective than going into mastery. I've made some research on this topic, have found that it is actually true, but haven't found the breakpoint. Somewhere it was said that its ~12k crit rating.

 

I just said in the previous post that that information is incorrect, especially with your gear. You should not change the default values other  than the 10289 haste breakpoint. You should have ~3k more crit than you have now, follow the stat weights in the imgur link.

 

There's no crit cap, crit has A LOT more value than just shooting stars. Proc wasteage is a normal thing, you cannot fix it by reforging out of your best stat. You should be speccing HoTW, not DoC as well for t90 talents.

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Appreciate this post. Two months ago I rerolled after 10 years of tanking, and got in a very good guild as a moonkin. It has been absolutely impossible to get proper information on some of these advanced or quirky scenarios. It's extremely frustrating when you can't even begin to develop proper instincts, and split second decision making in a complex environment, when you read something different every week.

 

Few questions...

 

One scenario I'm wondering how to properly handle. When you enter an eclipse, and you have a meta ticking... and you are delaying refreshing your dots until as late as you can, and then you suddenly get a bunch of starsurge procs in a row right as your meta is about to fall off, and perhaps even exiting eclipse. Everyone always says starsurge is the top priority, but would you let your meta drop, or even even exit an eclipse, before refreshing your dots, if you kept proccing starsurge?

 

Is using Starfall immediately more important than a starsurge proc?

 

I'm assuming if your CA has 1 second left, and you have a starsurge proc, refreshing the double dot takes priority?

 

I understand why the solar opener is ideal, but when I look at the logs of some of the top parses, I see a lot of incarnation and CA stacked together mid-fight as well. Why is that?

 

All I can think of for now, appreciate the info. Gotta master all this shit to make the cut, then forget it all in WoD, haha ^_^

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Appreciate this post. Two months ago I rerolled after 10 years of tanking, and got in a very good guild as a moonkin. It has been absolutely impossible to get proper information on some of these advanced or quirky scenarios. It's extremely frustrating when you can't even begin to develop proper instincts, and split second decision making in a complex environment, when you read something different every week.

 

Few questions...

 

One scenario I'm wondering how to properly handle. When you enter an eclipse, and you have a meta ticking... and you are delaying refreshing your dots until as late as you can, and then you suddenly get a bunch of starsurge procs in a row right as your meta is about to fall off, and perhaps even exiting eclipse. Everyone always says starsurge is the top priority, but would you let your meta drop, or even even exit an eclipse, before refreshing your dots, if you kept proccing starsurge?

 

Is using Starfall immediately more important than a starsurge proc?

 

I'm assuming if your CA has 1 second left, and you have a starsurge proc, refreshing the double dot takes priority?

 

I understand why the solar opener is ideal, but when I look at the logs of some of the top parses, I see a lot of incarnation and CA stacked together mid-fight as well. Why is that?

 

All I can think of for now, appreciate the info. Gotta master all this shit to make the cut, then forget it all in WoD, haha happy.png

 

I'll have to wait for Dolson or someone much more experienced in boomkin to answer your questions about DoTs.

 

Edit: Removed apparently out-of-date info. Yay ridiculous gear scalings.

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4 out of the 5 top juggernaut parses people are using CA and Incarnation together mid fight. I saw a lot too when looking at Garrosh. People you wouldn't expect to just be lazy either.

 

Hell, Dolson did on his #6 parse, haha.

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Few questions...

 

One scenario I'm wondering how to properly handle. When you enter an eclipse, and you have a meta ticking... and you are delaying refreshing your dots until as late as you can, and then you suddenly get a bunch of starsurge procs in a row right as your meta is about to fall off, and perhaps even exiting eclipse. Everyone always says starsurge is the top priority, but would you let your meta drop, or even even exit an eclipse, before refreshing your dots, if you kept proccing starsurge?

 

Is using Starfall immediately more important than a starsurge proc?

 

I'm assuming if your CA has 1 second left, and you have a starsurge proc, refreshing the double dot takes priority?

 

I understand why the solar opener is ideal, but when I look at the logs of some of the top parses, I see a lot of incarnation and CA stacked together mid-fight as well. Why is that?

 

All I can think of for now, appreciate the info. Gotta master all this shit to make the cut, then forget it all in WoD, haha happy.png

 

-if you had around 3 or less seconds remaining on those DoTs and your meta was about to fall and chain proccing starsurge, you'd refresh. Not sure what your DoT timers were at in that scenario or what your gear is like. I can safely push from the end of lunar to fresh solar with 4 seconds since ~ 570 or higher ilvl.

-no use starsurge before starfall

-yes

-inc + ca mid fight to take advantage of whatever 10second proc I could, totem or meta idk, but often can't wait for bindings ICD or getting a fresh lunar. Also on Garrosh you can just wait for a meta or something, turn around DoT a weapon or 2 and the boss and you'll chain SS procs for most of your CDs. Trying to think when this would be a bad idea atm, but can only think that you'd have issues doing CA+INC midfight if you had extremely low gear levels. This sort of thing was doable back in t14 even, especially on multidot fights, in order to get the 2nd CD use out as soon as possible so you got the third in time for lust or some important phase. TLDR: high gear levels and powerful procs are now outweighing class mechanics that used to matter at the start of the expansion.

-You need to be really conscious of your guild's kill times in order to plan stuff out like incarnation. Go back through their logs and see if they are fairly consistent over the weeks.

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