Damien

[Archived] Fury Warrior 5.4

122 posts in this topic

So according to my testing and mmo-champs testing, crit is your best stat over str because

Critical Strike Rating: Critical Strike Rating: Crit is the greatest secondary stat we can have after capping hit and expertise, especially as Fury. The more crit you have, the higher uptimes you have on Enrage because of the fact that Bloodthirst and Colossus Smash critical hits proc Enrage. Bloodthirst has a baseline double chance to be a critical strike, meaning the more crit you stack, the more of a chance that BT is going to be a guaranteed enrage.

How did you make your decision to list STR over Crit and why?

Edited by smallpackage

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Thank you for your post. We're grateful that you picked up this mistake. It was a remnant of an older draft that somehow did not get updated. The guide has now been rectified.

We would add, though, that we find it unlikely that this statistic priority will remain the same all the way into Mists of Pandaria. We imagine Blizzard will enact a change in the mechanics of Fury Warriors that will make Critical Strike Rating much less desirable. Of course, this remains to be seen.

Thanks again, and let us know if you find any other inconsistencies.

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How did you arrive at the gear listing? I would have thought 391 fl helm and 397 boe belt would have moved to bis for fury, and possibly the valor 397 ring.

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Your off hand for TG should be the Axe in DS Experimental Specimen Slicer due to it being Crit/Mastery vs. Crit./Haste. Mastery is a better stat then Haste for Fury. It increased the damage done while enraged vs. slightly increasing rage generation

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Thanks for the great guide!

I'm the person who writes the SMF fury sticky at the top of the EU forums so I've read this with a lot of attention and I've got a few small remarks:

Unless it has changed Glyph of Colossus Smash should automatically apply sunder armor when you use it. There's no need to manually apply the first sunder as the guide says.

Also seeing that Dragon Roar is no longer affected by armor we should avoid spending a GCD on it during CS unless we have nothing but a non-procced wild strike to fill the next gcd.

The glyph giving you 120 rage is quite bad right now. There's practically never a moment where you need more than 90 rage at the start of a CS rotation and seeing that rage income is fairly small right now I doubt that anyone but a badly trained warrior will ever benefit from a bigger rage pool.

It's quite established that unless they make very major changes Storm Bolt will be very weak in PvE compared to blood bath and Avatar. With Blood Bath adding 30% damage to everything you do for 36 seconds per three minnutes while Avatar only gives 20% damage and 30% rage for 20 seconds it seems that Blood Bath should be the clear winner seeing that the Bleed most likely ignores armor.

Even without that you Blood Bath would give you an average of 6% damage bonus while Avatar gives you 2.2% damage. As this is not even half as good there is no chance that 30% more rage for 20 seconds per 180 seconds, which in fact should only add a few heroic strikes and perhaps unprocced wild strikes, will somehow be worth almost twice as much as the flat damage portion of the cooldown.

Next is about when to use heroic strike. Being safe is a good thing and 80 rage might be a good choice for a beginner but more experienced warriors should probably use it at a lower amount of rage than that as a double white hit + bloodthirst will easily bring you from 80 rage to over 100 (= wasted). That is of course if you can agree with the above section in this post dealing with the glyph that gives you a maximum of 120 rage.

I also currently think that using Bloodthirst during CS in the execute phase when you're already enraged is a loss of DPS. During the CS you want to hit as hard as possible which pretty much means execute. Outside of execute and raging blow. Even a procced Wild strike would be superb as it means you can squeeze in another GCD (execute or RB) at the 5.5 second mark.

Have you done the maths for whirlwind/RB combinations at 3 targets? Whirlwind seems to be incredibly weak right now and while RB is strong I doubt it's worth using 2 GCDS on an ability that practically does no damage at all on 3 targets just so that you can unleash a raging blow afterwards. I might be wrong here of course.

Using berserker rage on cooldown or in combination with colossus smash is absolutely the wrong way to go. You want to have berserker rage ready in case your current enrage runs out during the CS or to proc a second RB during the colossus smash if necessary. Blindly using it every colossus smash will most likely overlap enrage uptime and might possibly add a useless third RB as you can only stack 2.

-Example: BT-CS-berserker rage combination. If in this scenario both your BT and CS crit your berserker rage will effectively be worth only 1.5 second of enrage (and that is IF you don't bt crit again during the CS uptime), won't give you an extra raging blow proc and thus just give you a minor portion of rage that you shouldn't need if you pooled properly.

If I'm not wrong the question on whether heroic strike or an unprocced Wild Strike is more damage per rage remains unanswered. I personally believe HS should be the logical winner here but there's no conclusive proof on it yet.

For the more advanced section: It's still under investigation whether or not vigilance damage taken is going to give you extra rage in berserker stance. If it does it's most likely a good DPS cooldown in situations where the damage is high but healable.

I don't understand this : "Expertise Rating, up to the soft cap of 7.5%, is your worst statistic."

So do you mean expertise is already incredible shit up to the soft cap where it gets even worse? Because this way it seems as if expertise is somehow no longer the worst statistic once you reach the soft cap (which is impossible I'd say). I also somehow doubt that expertise is worse than every other stat up until the soft cap as practically all of your abilities can be dodged...

I hope this helps you finishing this already very useful guide,

kind regards.

Edited by influxreptile
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*useful stuff*

Thank you so much for your post! There was a lot of useful information there, and I incorporated most of it to the guide. The changes should show up in a little bit.

I really appreciate your help, and if there's anything else you'd like to add, feel free!

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I can confirm the MMO champion guide's recommendation that you gear for Crit over Strength. Simcraft generates stat weights for my 408avg geared warrior of 2.78 Strength, 4.30 Crit.

Therefore you should update your guide to Enchants, Gems and Consumables to suggest gemming +50 crit in every socket apart from the 3 orange hybrid gems required to activate your meta. The meta should also be the 54 crit/3% crit effect gem.

Good guide though, quirky new gearing priorities aside :).

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I can confirm the MMO champion guide's recommendation that you gear for Crit over Strength. Simcraft generates stat weights for my 408avg geared warrior of 2.78 Strength, 4.30 Crit.

Therefore you should update your guide to Enchants, Gems and Consumables to suggest gemming +50 crit in every socket apart from the 3 orange hybrid gems required to activate your meta. The meta should also be the 54 crit/3% crit effect gem.

Good guide though, quirky new gearing priorities aside Posted Image.

Thanks for pointing this out. We'll do our best to get the enchants section updated later today or tomorrow (for both this guide and the Arms one). And thank you for your compliments on the guide :)

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It has been accordingly updated :)

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The BiS list is still displaying Cudgel for OH, which is most likely wrong.

Not 100% sure about these, but wouldn't the 397 JP ring and belt with Crit/Mastery be better than the 410 alternatives with haste/mastery, given the boost in crit rating's value.

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i wasnt able to do any math about it but i crafted some mighty rage potions to use in execute phase and they looked very handy... can they compete with strenght one at this point? execute hit like a truck

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Hello there,

I appreciate the effort you put into making this guide (and that of the above posters who provided some new information) but I do have a question concerning your (Vlad's) first response to a poster above.

You mention that you (personally and "you" collectively as Icy Veins and / or Inner Sanctum?) believe that the stat priority might change deeper into MoP due to stat changes Blizzard may make. I believe this is possible because anything can happen and balance is something Blizzard makes changes for quite often; however, I would ask why you believe this quite so strongly when it's a rather stated (and presumably achieved, at least with Fury Warrior stats) goal of Blizzard's to sort of end the "reign" of base stats as king - that is why in MoP stat gems have equivalent numbers for "pure" base stat and "pure" rating gems - so in effect, isn't it what was set as a goal to make a combat rating a more desirable stat?

I'm just curious because quite frankly I am pleased to see critical strike trumping strength as a desirable stat since we have not seen such a thing since Wrath of the Lich King when DPS Blood Death Knights and Warriors were gemming Armor Penetration (and to a lesser extent..when the most desirable plate and trinkets were those that provided flat "ignore armor" amounts in BC) so I'd love to know if you think Blizzard will change this solely because base stats should reign supreme or because you believe crit simply doesn't belong where it is or is too strong (similar to Wrath-era Armor Penetration) at this point and will only spiral out of control as gear-levels increase?

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Hello there,

I appreciate the effort you put into making this guide (and that of the above posters who provided some new information) but I do have a question concerning your (Vlad's) first response to a poster above.

You mention that you (personally and "you" collectively as Icy Veins and / or Inner Sanctum?) believe that the stat priority might change deeper into MoP due to stat changes Blizzard may make. I believe this is possible because anything can happen and balance is something Blizzard makes changes for quite often; however, I would ask why you believe this quite so strongly when it's a rather stated (and presumably achieved, at least with Fury Warrior stats) goal of Blizzard's to sort of end the "reign" of base stats as king - that is why in MoP stat gems have equivalent numbers for "pure" base stat and "pure" rating gems - so in effect, isn't it what was set as a goal to make a combat rating a more desirable stat?

I'm just curious because quite frankly I am pleased to see critical strike trumping strength as a desirable stat since we have not seen such a thing since Wrath of the Lich King when DPS Blood Death Knights and Warriors were gemming Armor Penetration (and to a lesser extent..when the most desirable plate and trinkets were those that provided flat "ignore armor" amounts in BC) so I'd love to know if you think Blizzard will change this solely because base stats should reign supreme or because you believe crit simply doesn't belong where it is or is too strong (similar to Wrath-era Armor Penetration) at this point and will only spiral out of control as gear-levels increase?

The reason I believe this is not really evidence based. I understand the desired stance of Blizzard to get rid of base stats as "king", but frankly, I don't really see it happening with any other class, and I feel that Fury/Arms Warriors will not be left as the exception.

I'm aware of the gem changes, but I just don't see it panning out like this unless Blizzard further alter the benefits of stats.

And just to clarify this is my own opinion. :)

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Highlighting what Curdi said earlier, the BiS list really lets the rest of this down, the stat priority & rotation are on the money but there are several slots which are not coherent with the previous sections. OH should be Experimental Specimen slicer, waist should be Demonbone Waistguard, Breathstealer band should b replaced with ring of flesh & arguably creche & EoU can be replaced with heroic vessel of acceleration and/or rotting skull.

While I can appreciate keeping the trinkets listed due to the lack of concise evidence supporting a clear pair the latter three really need updating.

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Highlighting what Curdi said earlier, the BiS list really lets the rest of this down, the stat priority & rotation are on the money but there are several slots which are not coherent with the previous sections. OH should be Experimental Specimen slicer, waist should be Demonbone Waistguard, Breathstealer band should b replaced with ring of flesh & arguably creche & EoU can be replaced with heroic vessel of acceleration and/or rotting skull.

While I can appreciate keeping the trinkets listed due to the lack of concise evidence supporting a clear pair the latter three really need updating.

Thank you. The changes are being made as we speak, and should be up shortly :)

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Almost done!

Rotting Skull > Eye of Unmaking

Obsidian Signet of the Avengers > Curled Twilight Claw

Enjoy Posted Image

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Almost done!

Rotting Skull > Eye of Unmaking

Obsidian Signet of the Avengers > Curled Twilight Claw

Enjoy Posted Image

While we are at it...for arguements sake...You might note that the 2p heroic FL set (using legs and chest) is much better than the t13 4p. Considering the fact that t13 chest/legs don't have Crit as a base stat on them, and t12 do. The t12 2p bonus is awesome too!

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Another great guide from IV Posted Image.

The only problem I saw with this guide was that in the Cooldown Usage section,http://icy-veins.com...downs-abilities , it mentions that for using Deadly Calm to watch for Taste of Blood stacks, which is an Arms only passive.

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Almost done!

Rotting Skull > Eye of Unmaking

Obsidian Signet of the Avengers > Curled Twilight Claw

Enjoy Posted Image

Thanks. Sorry for the delay. I've added Rotting Skull, but I won't add Obsidian Signet of the Avengers since it requires exalted with Avengers of Hyjal (which any respectable raider should have, honestly). At this very late stage of the expansion, it hardly seems relevant to further complicate the guide.

While we are at it...for arguements sake...You might note that the 2p heroic FL set (using legs and chest) is much better than the t13 4p. Considering the fact that t13 chest/legs don't have Crit as a base stat on them, and t12 do. The t12 2p bonus is awesome too!

I really don't think that something like this is worth pointing out or worrying about at this stage, considering how close we are to the expansion. I mean, we do update our guides and we do want them to be as accurate as possible, but for something that is only offers a minor benefit for a week, for a very restrictive amount of people, we'd rather not pollute the guide, so to speak.

Don't take my refusal on this or the ring to mean that I'm not happy to have your contributions. I really, really am. I'm looking forward to them very much, especially after Mists of Pandaria gear starts coming into play :)

Another great guide from IV Posted Image.

The only problem I saw with this guide was that in the Cooldown Usage section,http://icy-veins.com...downs-abilities , it mentions that for using Deadly Calm to watch for Taste of Blood stacks, which is an Arms only passive.

Oops! Sorry! Fixed it now. Thanks a lot!

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I notice that you input what i think should be under Arms's section or got taken off of fury in one of the beta patches because of Taste for Blood. Fury warriors dont get Taste for Blood. ( i might be wrong)

5.3.5. Deadly Calm

Posted ImageDeadly Calm should be used as many times as possible during an encounter. As we mentioned earlier, it is best to use it when you have stacks of Posted ImageTaste for Blood, or when you need to dump rage with Posted ImageHeroic Strike. Additionally, it is useful for reducing the cost of Posted ImageCleave, so you can use it during periods when you need to AoE.

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I notice that you input what i think should be under Arms's section or got taken off of fury in one of the beta patches because of Taste for Blood. Fury warriors dont get Taste for Blood. ( i might be wrong)

5.3.5. Deadly Calm

Posted ImageDeadly Calm should be used as many times as possible during an encounter. As we mentioned earlier, it is best to use it when you have stacks of Posted ImageTaste for Blood, or when you need to dump rage with Posted ImageHeroic Strike. Additionally, it is useful for reducing the cost of Posted ImageCleave, so you can use it during periods when you need to AoE.

Well, that's embarrassing. The previous poster had just reported it, and I only fixed one instance of the problem. Now, thanks to your comment, it's fixed everywhere (I hope...). Thanks!

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Why is Strength > Crit for SMF? Haven't had the time to run stat weights with simcraft - i'll do it myself in the near future, but logically it doesn't make sense.

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Why is Strength > Crit for SMF? Haven't had the time to run stat weights with simcraft - i'll do it myself in the near future, but logically it doesn't make sense.

I've been reading up on this, and I've come to the conclusion that the only possible way that is true, is because rage regeneration scales much better for SMF than TG, thus enrage uptime (RB useage) becomes less important. Just my two cents.

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