Damien

[Archived] Protection Paladin 5.4

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Hi in response to Section 8.3.1 of the protection paladin guide(Cooldowns and Abilities, Shield of the Righteous)

In addition to this effect, Shield of the Righteous also stacks a 20-second buff on you, called Posted ImageBastion of Glory, which increases the healing you receive from the next Posted ImageWord of Glory by 20% per stack (up to a maximum of 5 stacks)

Currently Bastion of Glory only adds 10% healing per stack to a maximum of 5 stacks. (Base without mastery)

If anyone else has other information please join in as I strive to be the best protection paladin I can be !

Edited by Thunder

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Hi in response to Section 8.3.1 of the protection paladin guide(Cooldowns and Abilities, Shield of the Righteous)

Currently Bastion of Glory only adds 10% healing per stack to a maximum of 5 stacks. (Base without mastery)

If anyone else has other information please join in as I strive to be the best protection paladin I can be !

Thank you! We've updated this part of the guide (as well as the stats page, which was a bit inaccurate). The changes should show up soon.

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Hey Guys,

Thanks for the awesome guide i got a chance to have a crack at heroic DS last night after finally patching and found the pally tank play style alot different.

I have one comment regarding your tier 4 talent choice.

Posted ImageClemency will literally double your already powerful utility. In case your Hand spells turn out to be useful in an encounter, this talent will undoubtedly be a strong choice.

Posted ImageHand of Purity's usefulness depends greatly on the number of effects that are affected by it. If it works against relevant boss mechanics, it can be an excellent cooldown to use on the tank. Currently, it appears as though it does work against a multitude of abilities, not limited to bleeds or DoTs. You will have to evaluate its usefulness on an encounter-by-encounter basis.

Posted ImageUnbreakable Spirit seems like a fairly weak option, although it can turn out to save your life, or the life of a raid member. We do not believe that this talent will ever be the most desirable choice.

this may only be because of my raid make up but i actually found Posted ImageUnbreakable Spirit to be the strongest choice.

i have a holy paladin in the raid who took Posted ImageHand of Purity' and i beleive it to be far to situational to warrant selection.

I ignored Posted ImageClemency for the same reason... as usefull as the hands are i rarely can see a time where using them twice would be warranted over reducing the cooldown of Posted ImageDivine Protection

i found that the synergy between Posted ImageHoly Avenger, and Posted ImageShield of the Righteous time well could probably help you survive an impale on heroic madness.

unless im mistaken this is just a qick thouhgt

but either way

using HA to spam SoTR and lower your CD on DP is great for tough moments.

i dont think it should be written off so fast when the other 2 are so situational and can be easily passed due to raid make up.

thats my two copper anyway :)

also long time reader first time poster.

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Ok, born again noob here...

What do i do for Parry and Dodge now? And why is my GCD so long? I used some reforge suggestions but its giving me like 25% Dodge and 7% Parry. I thought those two were supposed to be equal at 7% each; but now I see the avoidance cap is completely gone? I guess I dont get it...? How can i really learn these Game Mechanics so I know the right choices to make?

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Ok, born again noob here...

What do i do for Parry and Dodge now? And why is my GCD so long? I used some reforge suggestions but its giving me like 25% Dodge and 7% Parry. I thought those two were supposed to be equal at 7% each; but now I see the avoidance cap is completely gone? I guess I dont get it...? How can i really learn these Game Mechanics so I know the right choices to make?

The avoidance cap is gone, yes. Dodge and Parry Rating have different diminishing returns, meaning you need more parry rating than dodge rating for equal diminishing returns.

Your global cooldown is now affected by haste (inv_sword_136.jpgSanctity of Battle). I just tried it out with no haste rating on live servers, though, and it still seems like the usual 1.5 second global cooldown. You can make it lower with haste, though Posted Image

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This, apparently, is sparta - they've taken away righteous defense. Bye-bye mouse-over macro to save people from big bad adds. Now you just have to wait 8 seconds while my taunt recharges. Very short-sighted of Blizzard I think to give us just one taunt, and to reduce the damage of SotR so much - it's hard for it to be a high threat ability when it doesn't do much to cause threat.

Glyph of the Alabaster Shield would have been amazing in cata, but as it is, it's just something that happens, it's certainly not enough to make you delay your SotR, not like Scent of Blood stacks for DKs. I'm not really a fan of the new autarky builds either - my ret pala doesn't need damage reduction cds, or damage reduction glyphs, and my prot pala appreciates self-healing, but the healers don't! Every point of mana they waste overhealing me is a point they might hesitate to spend next time my health goes down.

I don't really want the self-heals either, i've always had WoG, and I didn't use it. When things got hairy, I popped extra cds, and the healers worked their magic. If that didn't do it, we probably wiped - but that's what happens in a good raid, if people aren't quite up to the task, or if someone times something badly, the whole thing can go wrong very quickly. The last thing we need then is dpsers leaping in to save the day by wasting valuable resources throwing out mediocre heals. Even with the Selfless Healer buff, the flash of light isn't exactly going to be a well-geared Hpriest's Flash Heal, is it? I've seen them crit at 100k, (and I'm sure they can do more than that with full hc DS gear), - now that's a life-saving heal, not the 40-45k that these waste-of-HP WoGs are going to be. Posted Image

The last thing that bugs me about the new Prot spec is the final talent tier, I mean, sure they're all good talents, for various things, but none of them is really a tanking talent. I'm probably just going to pick the target-able AoE one, and swap out my Glyph of Consecration for Dazing Sheld. That, or I'll wake up tomorrow and these changes will all have been just a horrible, horrible dream...

EDIT: I fixed typos.

Edited by Josh

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I mapped a rotation for Protection Pally and found, without at least 2 procs of Grand Crusader within your first cycle of 6 actions, there is a 2.5 second period of time where our only threat generation is white damage.

Judge

*Sacred Shield ( if talented )

Hammer of the Righteous

Avenger's shield ( without Grand Crusader )

Consecrate or Holy Wrath

Consecrate or Holy Wrath

Crusader Strike ( now we have 3 holy power )

Shield of the Righteous

*Sacred Shield

.....now 2.5 seconds waiting for Crusader Strike as everything else is on cooldown. Without Sacred Shield the gap is worse.

This is a little too RNG tanking for me. While the proc rate for Grand Crusader is often high, there are those awkward times where it is stubbornly absent. This makes an argument for the Divine Purpose talent. But does that mean we now weave Word of Glory into our rotation after the first Hammer of the Righteous ( at 2 holy power ) and pray for rain??

I don't like it. They made pally tanking a proc spec and sometimes the dice bone you.

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I find it curious to see people's ideas and even Icy Veins suggestions to be different, and in some part 100% different, from how the top guilds in the world are reforging, rotation etc.

F.ex: Method, one of the top guilds, do it different on the reforging. Here I see Icy Veins suggests--->

  • Stamina (until you have enough, see below);
  • Parry Rating and Dodge Rating (there is an important distinction here, see below);
  • Mastery Rating;
  • Hit Rating and Expertise Rating (until 7.5% of each);
  • Haste Rating.
While Method says:

It may sound strange, but since we rely heavily on our Holy Power generation to keep mitigation optional, stats like hit/exp/haste actually becomes pretty important.

Dodge and parry is not as useless as it was before, but still as unreliable, while mastery is still great for taking controllable damage, along with holypower generation stats.

Id personally recommend reforging into hit/exp cap, then mastery, and stack out stamina in gems or wherever you can.

Hit > Expertise > Mastery > Dodge/Parry/Haste

Any word on this people from Icy Veins?

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I find it curious to see people's ideas and even Icy Veins suggestions to be different, and in some part 100% different, from how the top guilds in the world are reforging, rotation etc.

F.ex: Method, one of the top guilds, do it different on the reforging. Here I see Icy Veins suggests--->

  • Stamina (until you have enough, see below);
  • Parry Rating and Dodge Rating (there is an important distinction here, see below);
  • Mastery Rating;
  • Hit Rating and Expertise Rating (until 7.5% of each);
  • Haste Rating.
While Method says:

It may sound strange, but since we rely heavily on our Holy Power generation to keep mitigation optional, stats like hit/exp/haste actually becomes pretty important.

Dodge and parry is not as useless as it was before, but still as unreliable, while mastery is still great for taking controllable damage, along with holypower generation stats.

Id personally recommend reforging into hit/exp cap, then mastery, and stack out stamina in gems or wherever you can.

Hit > Expertise > Mastery > Dodge/Parry/Haste

Any word on this people from Icy Veins?

Hello.

Thank you for your comment. The question of Protection Paladin stats does not exactly have a straightforward answer at this time, nor do we believe that it is ultimately that important.

Firstly, in our opinion, very few if any players at all are still "progressing" through content at this stage of the expansion. This is not meant to be disrespectful to anyone sincerely making their way through heroic content, but we believe the number to be quite small, considering the massive nerfs that have gone into Dragon Soul, as well as an overall gear saturation. Because of this, tweaking your stats to the very last "drop" does not have nearly the same effect on your performance that something like performing the optimal rotation does.

Secondly, the priority suggested by "Method", while certainly viable, is also certainly not the only way to go. While the examples are many, here are two high-end raiding Protection Paladins, one sitting at 1% chance to hit and 0.8% expertise, and the other at 3% chance to hit and 0.8% expertise (as opposed to Method's Paladin who is at a whopping 7.55% and 6.60%):

In any case, following your comment, we have decided to expand the stats section of the guide, and provide various alternatives.

I do sincerely thank you for a well presented post, it has helped improve the guide!

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How about not letting everyone think that you came up with the prot paladin gearing guide (http://www.icy-veins...ority-reforging) ?!?

It's basically copy pasted from Elitist Jerks (http://elitistjerks....ring_Strategies).

Thank you for pointing this out, it has been fixed. We do not often use other guides as references for our own, but when we do, we make it a point to clearly quote the source. In this case, we had overlooked doing so. So thank you again for your comment.

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With the recent 80% nerf to Seal of Truth for protection paladins, does it still make sense using this ability? It seems that Blizzards wants pali-tanks to use Seal of Insight at all times.

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How does Glyph of Avenging Wrath interact with Posted ImageSanctified Wrath ?

By increasing the damage of the Glyph's self-heal. Although, the benefit is extremely minor.

With the recent 80% nerf to Seal of Truth for protection paladins, does it still make sense using this ability? It seems that Blizzards wants pali-tanks to use Seal of Insight at all times.

I am certain that this change was done simply because Censure's damage was obscene for Protection Paladins. For example, looking at this log http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-3up46nw7vrpkfjdw/details/1/?s=4441&e=4751 you can see that the Protection Paladin not only topped the DPS charts (not so uncommon nowadays), but his Censure did a huge amount of damage.

I think Seal of Truth will remain the seal of choice, for now.

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Cleanse now removes ALL poison and Disease effects not just one of each.

Thanks. This will be fixed soon!

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According to this blue post, http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/6794029542#1, paladin tanks should use Seal of Insight now. Your guide still mentions to use Seal of Truth. Was this tested and still is the best seal?

Thank you for you great work and helping all of us getting better and better with our skills.

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According to this blue post, http://us.battle.net...ic/6794029542#1, paladin tanks should use Seal of Insight now. Your guide still mentions to use Seal of Truth. Was this tested and still is the best seal?

Thank you for you great work and helping all of us getting better and better with our skills.

Thanks! I had missed this blue post. I'm going to update the guide shortly.

And thank you for your compliments :)

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is blizz going to put a cap on Vengence? Currently im getting up to 74k added attack power when getting hit by multiple targets.

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is blizz going to put a cap on Vengence? Currently im getting up to 74k added attack power when getting hit by multiple targets.

Possibly. While it's nice to see tanks getting great damage/DPS for a change, it feels a bit unnatural somehow. I'm not entirely sure this is how Blizzard wanted it to pan out. Anyway, they're quite quick and fixing things nowadays so we'll see.

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The recommended gear list has a ton of dodge/parry pieces on it, but with Theck's analysis it seems that these are our least desireable stats. Probably should update the BiS list to prioritize Exp/Hit/Haste or Exp/Hit/Mastery pieces. I also wanted to say thank you for the class guides and the boss guides. Icy Veins does a great job and has become my go-to source this expansion. Keep it up!

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A few things I have noticed while leveling and raiding / doing heroics. It would seem seal of insight is now certainly the way to go. It seems sometimes that every time i swing my weapon at a mob i get healed for 30k hp. While seals that boost tank damage are nice, I will leave the massive damage up to the dos and stick with the ability that helps me stay live.

Also one of the first comments was on the new WoG and how they found it to not be very useful and how it only heals them for 40k or so. I haven't found that to be the case. My word of glory heals for a significant amount ~60k without the SotR boost and upwards of 200k with a full 5 stacks. This really comes in handy when taking large amounts of damage or when a healer is low on mana or not paying enough attention. Slightly off topic, I also find this ability extremely useful in PvP.

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Thoughts on Glyph of Battle Healer?

Indeed, it is useful now. I've updated the guide to reflect this :)

A few things I have noticed while leveling and raiding / doing heroics. It would seem seal of insight is now certainly the way to go. It seems sometimes that every time i swing my weapon at a mob i get healed for 30k hp. While seals that boost tank damage are nice, I will leave the massive damage up to the dos and stick with the ability that helps me stay live.

Also one of the first comments was on the new WoG and how they found it to not be very useful and how it only heals them for 40k or so. I haven't found that to be the case. My word of glory heals for a significant amount ~60k without the SotR boost and upwards of 200k with a full 5 stacks. This really comes in handy when taking large amounts of damage or when a healer is low on mana or not paying enough attention. Slightly off topic, I also find this ability extremely useful in PvP.

Regarding Seal of Insight, you are right, and we do mention this in the guide.

And of course, I agree with you on the Word of Glory part :)

The recommended gear list has a ton of dodge/parry pieces on it, but with Theck's analysis it seems that these are our least desireable stats. Probably should update the BiS list to prioritize Exp/Hit/Haste or Exp/Hit/Mastery pieces. I also wanted to say thank you for the class guides and the boss guides. Icy Veins does a great job and has become my go-to source this expansion. Keep it up!

Thank you. We are going to look into this.

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