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Damien

[Archived] Protection Paladin 5.4

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Currently Ask Mr Robot actually focusses on gemming and reforging for haste, while this guide says nothing has changed for 5.3. Talk about confusing Posted Image

There has been a school of thought that runs haste/control throughout 5.x, and there have been good results from high-end raiders to back it up. There was even a level 80 Paladin that used a Haste build and a refresh exploit to solo several bosses in Mogu'shan Vaults, which caused Vengeance to be capped at 100% of a player's hit points. It's a a perfectly viable approach, but it requires a good player who understands the encounter mechanics very well. I've seen more than a couple Hasteadins get slapped down when they screwed up.

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Control/Haste is the way to go!

Quote from Theck over at Sacredduty.net

"A strong player will still want to gear for as much haste as they can while maintaining a comfortable level of stamina. A weak player would be better-off stam-stacking and taking whatever stats they get on gear. A truly abysmal player may just use traditional tanking gear, which will give them high stamina and lots of passive survivability via avoidance and blocking. I’m not sure that any level of player would find a mastery build optimal outside of special cases (the standard “Heroic Sha” disclaimer)."

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Guest Geust

whens the BiS list getting updated been saying ''Will be updated shortly for 3 patches now.....

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Guest Lobo Thomson Shu

I've found that this macro helps out alot because I run with Sacred Shield and I usually forget to refresh it periodically. This macro uses Shield of the Rightous and Sacred Shield together, it basically will add a global CD to Shield of the Rightous every so often but well worth it for clearing up a action bar slot, and has been keeping me alive alot more recently.

#showtooltip Shield of the Rightous

/cast Shield of the Rightous

/cast Sacred Shield

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Guest eliot

I'm just curious why you don't mention Glyph of Word of Glory? I'm fairly new with Prot Pally, but this glyph seems pretty nice.

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I think you should revisit your discussion of Tier 5 Talents.  Holy Avenger is a critical component of a Protection Paladin's boss pull rotation.  In addition to the increased damage (threat), with Holy Avenger active Crusader Strike and Judgement grants enough Holy Power to cast Shield of the Righteous. Using Crusader Strike > Shield of the Righteous > Judgement > Shield of the Righteous for the duration of Holy Avenger gives you a significant threat lead over gear-equivalent dps.  Plus, you can stack Avenging Wrath with the rotation above to build significant threat during Bloodlust, or whatever off-brand version of the spell is used by the Alliance.

Edited by Stargrave

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Guest Humantippin

I am curious as to why we describe Mastery as a Damage smoother... The shield of the Righteous buff isn't up 100% of the time, and thus the increase in mastery would greatly increase the difference between damage reduction and non..

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The talents and glyphs section was last updated on 9-17-2013. I was wondering about the hotfix on 9-23-2013

 

  • Paladin
    • Talents
      • Eternal Flame's heal-over-time effect is increased by 50% when used on the Paladin (down from 100%).

 

Are EF and SS more in line with one another now or does EF still outshine SS?

Edited by Hozz

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The talents and glyphs section was last updated on 9-17-2013. I was wondering about the hotfix on 9-23-2013

 

  • Paladin
    • Talents
      • Eternal Flame's heal-over-time effect is increased by 50% when used on the Paladin (down from 100%).

 

Are EF and SS more in line with one another now or does EF still outshine SS?

 

I've been using both talents on and off, and I can say for sure that EF is still better. Using it on yourself can bring it up to par with SS, but its still a godly talent past that.

 

In my 10man Normal raid team, we've had several occasions where we were seconds from wiping because of 2 healers dead with 10% of the bosses health left, but with my high vengeance, and holy avenger, I was able to blanket-EF the raid, and do over 6M healing across the raid in that last 10%. I've beaten actual healers by doing over 50k hps with EF across a raid.

 

It's an amazing ability, and WoG couldn't bring half that healing to the table. The HoT is so valuable to raid healing when you have to use it that way that it can save your raid on almost every fight.

 

Mind you, you have to know when to use it and when to keep up your own shield of the righteous uptime. If you've just been taunted off, thats a good time to start putting EF's on the other tank, and on other members of the raid. It's like putting up SS on someone, but you can do it to multiple people. Just gotta know when its worth using that Holy Power for them instead of yourself.

Edited by Fouton

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The suggested priority for fillers doesn't match the action list in current simcraft.  The guide suggests.

CS > J > AS > T6 > HW > HoW > cons

 Simcraft (541-2) uses

CS > J > AS > SS(low duration) > HoW > T6 > HW > cons > SS refresh(any duration)

(HoW = hammer of wrath,  HW = holy wrath.  SS = sacred shield)

 

So just a re-ordering of fillers, and including SS in the priority order, since it's on the GCD, unlike Eternal Flame / WoG for prot.

 

 

 Simming my ilvl524 pally vs. the T16N10 TMI boss shows holy wrath actually hitting harder than hammer of wrath, but I think I recall Theck saying they won't clash in the rotation except the first time.  And this is with extreme amounts of vengeance.  My pally would need some serious healing to live through the 188k dtps, producing 266k dps single target.  TMI of 797M, hehe.  Prot is my OS, so that's with a reverberating primal diamond, and some crit on some pieces.  So anyway, probably most of the time you won't has as much vengeance as that.

 

 None of this impacts survival, as the CS > J > AS hasn't changed.  Except if people don't realize where to put SS refresh in the priority, and lose holy power or uptime by not refreshing it in a filler GCD when it has under 5 secs left.  Also, depending on the situation, if you pass up a chance to HoW an add that dies before your next filler GCD, then you're losing a chance to trade a HoW for a cons or empty GCD.

 

I haven't had a prot spec on this toon since 4.x, finding it hard to remember that HoW doesn't generate HP for prot, so it always comes after CS > J > AS.  And getting used to having cons back in the rotation, haven't had that since 3.3.

Edited by Karsteck

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I agree with the rotation of both is slightly off in a minor way. Your T6 talent is, if macro'd to heal yourself as execution sentence or is any other talent, applies a decent amount of self healing and this survivability instead of a minor damage increase. Personally I believe the dps loss will be minimal, as it is a 1 minute cooldown.

Next, holy wrath can provide AoE threat on adds if you need to pick them up, dps them, or any other gain. Also, if Hammer of Wraths damage tooltip is correct on Wowhead, it should always be doing more damage. Personally I use Holy Wrath first because the placement of my keys makes it just south easier to continue with my normal above 20% rotation, but I could be maximizing by putting hammer of wrath first.

Finally Sacred Shield refreshing. I agree with simcraft for its placement, though low is 5s or less, unless avenging wrath is about to come off CD, then just apply it and be ready for heavy dps spam. Though, I believe Eternal Flame is better in terms of consistency. Applying that 5 stack HoT, especially with 4set t16 is amazing. I've actually been able to pop holy avenger and spam eternal flames across the raid when 2 of 3 healers dead to keep the raid from wiping.

But in the end, you don't have to be perfect, you don't even follow that rotation to much thought past the survivability portion of the rotation. I've ranked on DPS as a prot paladin on current fights by just rolling my fingers on the available abilities. I find no downtime between the filler is the most important part if your rotation. Of course that's not the point if what you're bringing up, but I feel I'd mention it.

So to summarize my points, I think simcraft would be right if they had the T6 portion of their rotation earlier, since it can be self healing not just dps. Afterwords simcraft's is mathematically better for dps, it's slightly situational and hardly gonna make that difference by the end of the fight.

Edited by Fouton

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  1. Cast wow_icon_spell_holy_crusaderstrike.jpg Crusader Strike on cooldown to generate Holy Power.
  2. Cast wow_icon_spell_holy_righteousfury.jpg Judgment on cooldown to generate Holy Power.
  3. Cast wow_icon_spell_holy_avengersshield.jpg Avenger's Shield regardless of whether or not you have a wow_icon_inv_helmet_74.jpg Grand Crusader proc (which causes Avenger's Shield to generate Holy Power).
  4. Cast your Tier 6 talent (see more).
  5. Cast wow_icon_spell_holy_weaponmastery.jpg Holy Wrath.
  6. Cast wow_icon_spell_paladin_executionsentence Execution Sentence or wow_icon_spell_paladin_lightshammer.jpg Light's Hammer, if you have chosen one of these talents.

 

I`m maining my pala again and thought it would be a good idea to review the class guides again.

 

I'm wondering about the spell prio for prot pala above:

How can T6 talent be listed twice - in 4. and 6. place?

Edited by LobbyBoy

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Guest Cyania

4. Summing-up Profession Perks

 

At the JC perk: You are still talking about Mastery instead of Haste. Also the linked gem is Mastery instead of Haste. Maybe you should change it wink.png 

 

Same for Blacksmitting :)

(for Prot paladin)

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Sorry about not getting to your original post sooner LobbyBoy, I often forget about this forum section since I can't moderate it.

 

Noted Cyania, I will get a fix on that!

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Sorry about not getting to your original post sooner LobbyBoy, I often forget about this forum section since I can't moderate it.

 

Don't worry about that. You are doing a great job here. Keep it up! cool.png

  • Like 1

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Guest ferlane

Any comment on the value of tier bonus for the set vs. best in slot?

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Any comment on the value of tier bonus for the set vs. best in slot?

Theck, our Prot Pally guide auditor, actually ran some numbers for the tier bonus a couple of months ago.

 

Check it out here:

http://www.sacredduty.net/2014/01/07/itemization-value-of-4t16/

 

And reference materials on what TMI means:

http://www.sacredduty.net/theck-meloree-index-standard-reference-document/

 

If the material is a little too dense, basically, the approximate value of the 4pc is 10% to your max SotR uptime, due to the extra HoPo granted by not consuming it on EFs, and reduces the TMI significantly.  Even LFR 4pc vs N WF seems to be better in the outcome.

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Guest Pete Sherburne

Page still lists Word of Glory in the Prot Pally rotation, but we don't have that ability any longer.

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Page still lists Word of Glory in the Prot Pally rotation, but we don't have that ability any longer.

Yes you do. It's replaced by eternal flame when you're talented into it.

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