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NoPro

Resto and Throwing my hands up!

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562 Resto Shammy http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/proudmoore/Nopro/simple

 

I am in a raid group and 1 of 3 healers in our 10 man. Garrosh is a being a pain for us and as most healers do I am blaming the lack of for not downing him yet. I am ready to quit being a healer due to the fact that I know I can be doing more than I am. When the going gets tough I can, at the most, reach 100k HPS. Until lately I haven't had anyone to compare myself to. However I am being outhealed by a Disc Priest, Holy Paladin, and Resto shammy all with lower item levels than myself. I have tried to take advice from others in game with what stat to stack, gemming, reforging, rotations, etc. I have read over the forums here as well. I am stuck and I don't know what to do. Can someone kindly straighten my butt up! Below is just from last night, sorry I don't have more.

(Resto Shammy)

1. Freylis  26016406 (101428.5, 33.4%)
2. Nopro  23330891 (92999.9, 29.9%)
3. Henrich  12205826 (53004.3, 15.6%)
4. Lithiah  7459909 (28752.8, 9.5%)

 

(Disc Priest)

1. Emmey  22651890 (98696.7, 35%)
2. Nopro  15558295 (77162.6, 24%)
3. Henrich  10221939 (54885.8, 15.8%)
4. Lithiah  7360253 (28205.6, 11.3%)
5. Makeshîft  5619795 (21889.9, 8.6%)
 

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Gearing stuf

---------------------

Without logs its hard, but waaaaaay too much spirit, 14k is the most you will ever need, may people play with under 11k, do you ever finish a fight on less then 100% mana

 

Conductivity is garbage

 

Odd ammount of haste that doesnt hit any break point.

 

Garosh Stuff

--------------------------

Earth Sheild tank, keep HR down, pop a Healing CD each big burst(iron star, whirl), use your utility (interupt!)

 

Dont try to beat the disc preist

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If you have the option of posting logs, please do and we can take a better look!  Beyond that, for some immediate things.

 

Use Rushing Streams instead of Conductivity.  Healing Stream Totem should be your number one priority in most 10m fights, and with Rushing Streams, it's also a HUGE portion of your healing.

 

Mastery is a terrible terrible stat for Resto shamans, and you should not be reforged into it.  You should be reforging/gemming as:

Spirit to Comfort > Crit > Haste > Spirit > Mastery.

 

So for gems:

Red: Int/Crit

Yellow: Crit

Blue: Spirit/Crit

 

Crit gives you regen as well, so adjust your spirit accordingly.  You also have WAY too much spirit as is, and I'd recommend aiming for 10k spirit and 25% crit.

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Thank you all so much! Going to give this a try and hopefully not give up on my Shaman!

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Thank you all so much! Going to give this a try and hopefully not give up on my Shaman!

Definitely don't give up!  You've just got a bit of a wonky setup going there.  Once you get settled into a nice Crit build, you'll see your HPS skyrocket!

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Hello, Nopro smile.png

I would try to give a little more detailed answer although it's a pity that we can't see your logs.

 

I'm playing resto shaman and I healed SoO (14/14 Normal, 8/14 HM) in almost every possible setup - with all the other healing classes and in 1-2-3 healer setups. I play it in two different builds - deep haste (12115 haste rating for 3 ticks of Riptide, 11K Spirit, the rest in Crit) or Crit (8882 haste rating for HST, 10K Spirit, the rest in Crit). BOTH Haste and Crit builds work fine, so I would not insist on Crit only build or on Haste only. It highly depends on your healing style and reaction (are you pro-active or re-active healer). Frankly, deep Haste build suites more proactive healers and is very good (for me) on progressive fights. But you need to know the fight and its spikes of damage excellent and to plan your every move for not get to OOM after the first minute of fight. 

Resto shaman always shine smile.png

 

Mastery: it IS a great stat for the resto shaman - the lower is raid - the higher is your healing. But we have loads of Mastery on resto gear, so, right, you should never reforge / gem for Mastery. Even if you'll reforge out all the possible Mastery from your gear, you'll still have enough.

 

Now to the details. I'm apologise for possible saying things that you already know or pointing on mistakes that you don't do - it's a little tricky to give advices without logs.

 

1) Definitely drop at least 2K of spirit. With your current ilvl you don't need more than 12K (even 11K as for me). Don't forget that you have Mana Tide Totem - use it smile.png

2) As guys already said, never use Conductivity. It's Rushing Streams. I don't think that you will need Ancestral Guidance anywhere in SoO Normal.

3) I prefer Stone Bulwark Totem upon Astral Shift. It has a much higher uptime and can be used twice in a row with the Call of Elements talent. And you just drop it on CD all the time. Its damage mitigation is enough for SoO normal.

4) Take Primal Elemantalist instead of Unleashed Fury. Don't forget a macro to have +10% buff to healing from your Elementals.

5) Healing Stream Totem must be up always, when it's not on CD.

6) Earth Shield must have close to 100% uptime on tank. If you have a warrior/monk tank - preferable on them, if not, on any other tank.

7) Glyphs: take Glyph of Chaining instead of Healing Stream. You don't need Chain Heal spamming without CD - it just burns you mana senseless.

8) You have 4T16 bonus and a Spiritwalker's Glyph. Do you use it as an additional Raid CD?

9) Mana management: Glyph of Chaining as I already said, do not Riptide all the raid when you don't take damage, use Healing Rain wisely.

10) Do you have emergency macro for the instant Healing Rain? (May save your raid on Garrosh in Transitions for example, if you didn't get the buff.) 

11) Do you use WeakAuras for tracking HST, SBT, Earth Shield uptime? You have to use some addon for this.

 

Going back to the Garrosh fight.

Riptide tanks, Earth Shield one of them.

Run in wolf form from Desecrated Weapon, drop a Healing Rain when arrived. Do not try to heal or Riptide one person after the Weapon run, drop HR first.

When a big Wheel starts to move, start to Riptide the raid. Do not drop HR when it starts to move, you can see in DBM announcements when it going to explode - cast HR right before it, so your raid could benefit from all the ticks.

DO NOT use raid CDs for the Wheel damage. Frankly, the only damage you have to use shaman's raid CDs is from Empowered Whirling Corruption. But, if you still progressing, let's say - shaman uses raid CDs on Whirling Corruptions.

Divide raid CDs with your fellow healer (I hope, you do not 3-heal on Garrosh) before the fight, so you'll not get into situation, when everybody used raid CDs for the first Whirl and the raid wipes on the second from the lack of healing.

In Transitions: Riptide the raid, drop HR on CD (Garrosh as a central point for HR) - you have enough time to cast HR while Garrosh preparing to hit. If your raid did not get a damage mitigation buff for any reason and everybody is low of HP, drop your HTT, do not save it. It is a long fight, you'll have it back soon.

Do not forget that you can use your 4T16 bonus as a minor raid CD on Whirling Corruptions.

 

That's all for now.

I'm happy to answer any further questions here or in PM smile.png

Edited by Pandacho
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One of the important things that I want to note is that any build (Mastery, Haste, or Crit) can work fine for Resto Shaman right now but it depends on your healing environment. I know that some super high progress Shaman ran full Mastery/Spirit builds for Garrosh Heroic, so the stats per se aren't the problem; it's whether you use them to their potential. From that point of view, Crit builds are the easiest to get the best of.

 

I would suggest that if you've got as far as Garrosh then you can maintain a basic rotation alright, and we should be looking at the more difficult parts of Garrosh specifically.

 

I found the Empowered Whirling Corruption really difficult to deal with. When you're spread out, your throughput is a bit gimped and you won't have enough cooldowns for every single one. So what I tend to do is ensure I have sufficient mana to blast out a lot of Healing Surges during that ability. The extra speed and Crit chance (from Tidal Waves) definitely helps keep people alive.

 

The final phase when Garrosh goes bananas, it's essential to keep your head and heal as hard but as sensibly as you can. Panicking here is the reason for a lot of wipes. I hope your group gets to stay close to each other during this phase, because it makes it all the easier to use Healing Rain and Chain Heal to keep people alive efficiently. If you have cooldowns left by this point, popping one on the first Empowered Whirling Corruption and then chaining the rest immediately afterwards is a good strategy. I rarely expect Garrosh (or the raid) to last to the second Whirling Corruprtion.

 

Finally, it's not entirely worth trying to compete on meters. If your buddies are healing huge amounts during P1 and P2 then let them. It's largely just noise for the first half of the fight, so don't try to outheal them. Ultimately, that leaves you in a better position to heal hard at the end of the fight.

 

What parts of the fight are you finding difficult? We can tailor further advice towards that.

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One of the important things that I want to note is that any build (Mastery, Haste, or Crit) can work fine for Resto Shaman right now but it depends on your healing environment. I know that some super high progress Shaman ran full Mastery/Spirit builds for Garrosh Heroic, so the stats per se aren't the problem; it's whether you use them to their potential. From that point of view, Crit builds are the easiest to get the best of.

Agreed although they had 21k spirit earlier today from memory

 

 

I found the Empowered Whirling Corruption really difficult to deal with. When you're spread out, your throughput is a bit gimped and you won't have enough cooldowns for every single one.

For this reason I run with AG instead for this fight, with that acendance and  tide you have a CD up for each one, trades abit of burst for overall through put, one of the big benefits of rushing streams (glyph of healing stream) doesnt really apply here

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Just to reinforce Stoove's point. Your healing patterns should change depending on your co healers.

When co healing with disc I found crit to be of most value, same with hpally. In throughput comps I found haste to work slightly better.

Most important thing you should do is coordinate with your co healers. For instance I enjoy co healing with discs and pallies (especially discs) because I can easily coordinate with them, so that they focus more on shielding and I focus more on topping. Someone is low? Just drop a shield on him, I'll take care of the rest. The 2pc bonus also relieves some pressure of the disc to shield both tanks, as your bonus will effectively shield one of them.

Don't look too much into the raw meter, though do look at your heals breakdown and uptimes after the fight. It's very important to learn what you did wrong.

 

And another thing, try to down Garrosh with only two healers. If you don't do static tactic (which you shouldn't on progress), then most damage comes only during empowered whirl, and it will fall mostly on you to heal it! So extra dps to minimize the amount of these is very good. Use HTT, Ascendance and AG to sustain three of these. Also don't forget to use empower from your earth/fire ele. Although RS is the goto talent for most fights in SoO (even for hc), sometimes AG will be more useful due to various reasons (stacking or smart heals don't work).

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I definitely support the 2-heal strategy, I think it's fantastic.

 

When we were doing progress on Garrosh Normal, I 2-healed it with a Druid. Most of the time I spent sitting doing nothing and then bursting for the Whirling Corruptions and the final phase. smile.png

 

Remember we also have a tips thread with Garrosh tips for Resto Shaman!

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Garrosh is definitely a 2-healers fight. You need more dps to shorten the Empowered stuff period and it's nothing to do there for 3 healers at all. I think if you'll look into the logs, you'll see that for 3 healers it will be hardly 50% of effective HPS with tons of overhealing.

I 2-healed Garrosh with Disc / Paladin / Druid - every setup is good if you coordinate your CDs.

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One of the important things that I want to note is that any build (Mastery, Haste, or Crit) can work fine for Resto Shaman right now but it depends on your healing environment. I know that some super high progress Shaman ran full Mastery/Spirit builds for Garrosh Heroic, so the stats per se aren't the problem; it's whether you use them to their potential. From that point of view, Crit builds are the easiest to get the best of.

While that's true, boosting your effective HPS is going to fall to Crit or Haste builds, not Mastery builds.  A Mastery builds effectiveness is so limited, especially with a Disc priest or a Holy pally, since both have proactive healing mechanics,

 

Also, Shamans running huge Spirit builds were typically used for mana batteries and cooldowns.  I know we ran one in my 25H Garrosh kills with around 15k spirit, and they could pop the other healers to full in seconds.

 

 

Three healing isn't an awful idea for N Garrosh, as there are no real specific DPS pushes.  As long as people are on top of MCs and the tanks are helping on MCs, you should have no issues w/ 3 healing.  Infact, I think some guilds have 4 healed it.

 

That being said, if you look at her HPS breakdowns, they both only show 2 healers.  It's safe to assume they're already 2 healing, and that one of them is a swing healer.

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Wow! I never expected a response like this! Thank you all so much!!! I went for the crit build last night, ran a couple lfr's and damn near doubled my HPS. We lost our pally healer and switched to a druid. I outgear our holy priest and the resto druid so I am excited to shine tonite at raid. I also have set up worldoflogs.com so I can post that after raiding. As far as two healing Garrosh, I can make the suggestion but I am just a healer :P I don't have time at this moment to answer all the questions asked of me but I will touch back on it when I get home tonite. Our biggest problem is the empowered corruptions and mind controls. Every time we wipe it is right there. Again I will reply tonite answering all the questions and giving more detail. I am just suprised at the response!!!

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Just one thing, if you use AMR then make sure your crit weight is above 0.5, or alternatively swap your purple gems for orange ones. And instead of reforging out of spirit, reforge out of mastery into crit.

Edited by lynx

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Just one thing, if you use AMR then make sure your crit weight is above 0.5, or alternatively swap your purple gems for orange ones. And instead of reforging out of spirit, reforge out of mastery into crit.

Well, I'd be reforging out of Spirit AND Mastery into Crit.

 

Matching sockets is still usually a good thing, especially for healers as most people discount the value of Int.  Green Spirit/Crits going into Blues aren't a bad idea, as long as most of the other spirit went away.

 

 

@NoPro

 

I'm glad you're feeling more confident with the crit build!

 

Definitely come back with any issues you might have.

 

Couple of things off the bat, though:

 

Remember Ascendance!  It'll easily heal an entire Empowered Whirl.

Don't forget Healing Surge!  With as much spirit and crit as you have, it's not bad to dump a few out during a whirl.

Remember that Healing Stream on cooldown!

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Yay for success and motivation!

 

So it sounds to me like your group is either dying to mechanic failure (the Mind Controls) or people in the danger zone too long (Empowered Whirling Corruption). We can't help you with the Mind Controls (much - make sure to have Wind Shear bound to something easy!), and we've given you some good advice on the Whirling Corruptions.

 

Now go forth and smite his ruin upon the cavern-side!

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Hmm...I can see stuff...meh oh well. All the advice helped tremendously!

 

<Pandancho> I am working on my Cd's more, using them in the beginning so they will back up and ready. Actually needing mana tide is a new thing for me but I am working it out. I haven't switched to the Bulwark Totem yet seeing as we only got to Nazgrim tonite and damage mitigation wasn't terribly needed. I am torn on the Primal Elementalist vs. Unleashed Fury. I just don't feel like I get that much from them. Unleashed Fury procs on its own. My shields are good to go so no worries there. I keep my Spiritwalker's Grace on cooldown and during Garrosh save it for empowered WW. I don't feel like I need the chaining glyph due to the fact that there aren't any instances that I can think of that double the length would help me out (har har). I looked into WeakAuras and am going to try it out tomorrow night, I didn't have time tonite before raid started. As far as the actual fights and transitions, I do exactly that. Probably not as clean as it could be but I am in progress. Thank you for your advice and help!

 

<Stoove> Yes Garrosh is just a dick! And a need to follow those mechanics to a "t" dick as well. We have only gotten to the final phase once and luckily we did stack up. Just had too many dead at the time to finish him off. As far as the hardest part for me is the Empowered WW's. They wreck my face. The first one isn't that bad due to me popping Astral Shift, but that next one I am just spamming heals but it seems like it is never enough. I think moving my stats around like I did will help that though. My healing tonite made me a little giddy!

 

<Hybrys> I have my spirt at about 13k. I reforged all that I could and regemmed all yellow into just straight Crit. I was suprised to see I never really had any mana issues that I couldn't deal with. And yes like I said up above...I haven't been staying on top of my cooldowns like I should and I hope that I am finally/properly working them into my rotation. Thank you for all your kind words!

 

<dean771> and <Lynx> thank you as well for retouching on all the advice. It helps me push aside any fears that someone is just stating what they believe instead of what actually works.

 

I am really happy that I took the chance and posted on here. I got more help than I knew what to do with!!  :P

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Heyas, NoPro.

When I was 2-healed Garrosh with Druid, we divided our CDs in this way: he took regular Whirling Corruptions with his mushrooms, while I took the Empowered - first one with HTT and the second one with Ascendance+Spiritwalker's Grace, so you could cast while moving. If you have the third, resto druid can cast Tranquil with Hand of Protection from Paladin.

Another tricks, that we used on Empowered:

- Feral druid cast Tranquil with Hand of Protection from Pala.

- Ele shaman uses his HTT

- Shadow priest uses Halo+dps with the Vampiric Embrace.

 

Don't forged that you can always engage your dps in saving the raid smile.png

 

I am torn on the Primal Elementalist vs. Unleashed Fury. I just don't feel like I get that much from them. Unleashed Fury procs on its own.

 

Unleashed Fury affects your direct heals. Primal Elementalist affects ALL your casts and adds +10% to them. With 2 from 5min. uptime of Elems, you have about 40% of fight 110% of your healing power. (You have to use a macro so Elems will channel on you).

I can suggest you to make 3-4 tries with UF and then 3-4 tries with PE on Garrosh, and to check in logs what works better for you. 

Edited by Pandacho

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I rarely have the Fire Elemental channel on me, actually; he does a LOT of damage, and generally speaking I feel that damage serves better than the 10% healing would (especially since rsham CDs are already extremely powerful).  In the same line as asking the dps to help manage tight healing spots, I see nothing wrong with popping a giant dps cd as a healer.  The earth elemental, however, is fantastic because you get the healing boost and the damage reduction.  I think I used him to stun someone once, but just macroing him to channel is hardly a waste.

 

You can get the best of both worlds if you've got your eye on the ball, since the channel range is pretty big; tell them to channel just before the whirl starts (it takes his GCD and not yours) then drop channel and resume dps after you feel comfortable with raid hp.  For pushing those last couple percent, every bit helps.

 

The trouble with Unleashed Fury is that it's a huge single-target boost, but kinda "eh" for raid damage; you get the side-effects of giant ST heals with your CDs or ancestral awakening, but that's it.  On fights where there is truly threatening tank or other ST damage, it's fantastic (throw turbo-riptides on people with DoTs, shatter the meters on Durumu, etc.) but it really loses its luster for big stompy stuff (not unlike how it's top class for single-target dps for the other specs, but falls of massively for any target switching whatsoever).  I'd personally stick with Primal Elementalist for Garrosh (and most fights), I think the only fight I make sure to switch to Unleashed Fury for is Dark Shamans (I heal the Haromm group).  It's not like it's bad, it just doesn't sound adapted to what your raid needs you to do.

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Well, I'd be reforging out of Spirit AND Mastery into Crit.

 

Matching sockets is still usually a good thing, especially for healers as most people discount the value of Int.  Green Spirit/Crits going into Blues aren't a bad idea, as long as most of the other spirit went away.

 

Agree 100%. I just thought it would be better to tone down spirit step by step instead of cold turkey. But it's all a matter of personal preference.

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I think the only fight I make sure to switch to Unleashed Fury for is Dark Shamans (I heal the Haromm group).  It's not like it's bad, it just doesn't sound adapted to what your raid needs you to do.

Wow, nice tip for me :)

I heal the Haromm group too, but never thought to switch the talent. Here it is, the force of habit! Will try it today, thanks.

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I rarely have the Fire Elemental channel on me, actually; he does a LOT of damage, and generally speaking I feel that damage serves better than the 10% healing would (especially since rsham CDs are already extremely powerful).  In the same line as asking the dps to help manage tight healing spots, I see nothing wrong with popping a giant dps cd as a healer.  The earth elemental, however, is fantastic because you get the healing boost and the damage reduction.  I think I used him to stun someone once, but just macroing him to channel is hardly a waste.

Absolutely this.  I'm usually running PE (just because EB is a pain and UF isn't worth it in this tier) and the Fire Ele alone can do upwards of 7mil damage per use.  That's a huge number in 10m, when pushing Garrosh can be the difference of another 5mil being squeezed out.

 

The Earth Ele's channel, on the other hand, is great.  I'll usually use it during a time of high incoming damage, for which I don't want to use (or don't have) another cooldown.

 

 

@lynx - I actually prefer the thought of someone going cold turkey.  I think lower spirit leads to better spell choice and higher level play.

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I do think that the raid would benefit from a solid cooldown rotation here, just co-ordinating with the other healers and saying "Oh, I'll use Ascendance here and you use Tranq here and Joe DPS will use Healing Tide here" really works a charm! :)

 

I rarely have the Fire Elemental channel on me, actually; he does a LOT of damage, and generally speaking I feel that damage serves better than the 10% healing would (especially since rsham CDs are already extremely powerful).  In the same line as asking the dps to help manage tight healing spots, I see nothing wrong with popping a giant dps cd as a healer.  The earth elemental, however, is fantastic because you get the healing boost and the damage reduction.  I think I used him to stun someone once, but just macroing him to channel is hardly a waste.

 

I usually feel that the times I need Fire Elemental's channel are the times when that extra 10% will save people, like on Empowered Whirling Corruption or Galakras' final phase when we underheal it. Having said that, there are loads of times when I don't bother using it - Immersius, for example. It's one of those talents that I think is cool because you can use it two different ways depending on the fight.

 

Wow, nice tip for me smile.png

I heal the Haromm group too, but never thought to switch the talent. Here it is, the force of habit! Will try it today, thanks.

 

I can confirm it's a fantastic talent for that fight. In particular, when you're on 8+ DoT stacks and there's a Falling Ash incoming you need to top before the Falling Ash and then again before the next DoT tick. Using Unleashed Fury before Ash hits and precasting your heal will top you again immediately (assuming you time the cast right). It can get a bit hairy though, once I survived the Falling Ash on 10hp, gave my co-healer a heart attack. Totally worth it.

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