Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
Vomitory

Worth Breaking 4P for Heoric Upgrade?

14 posts in this topic

My armory, for reference.

 

As of now, I'm wearing my four piece Tier set for the bonus as Destruction, which we all know is pretty good. However, I am thinking about swapping inv_helm_cloth_raidwarlock_n_01.jpgHood of the Horned Nightmare with inv_helm_cloth_raidmage_n_01.jpgHood of Swirling Senses and I'm wondering if it's worth losing the bonus. I think about the lack of the 15% crit for 5 seconds, and while it's a nice little boost to damage, it's a minimal period of time and it's only 15% (I'd have passed on the helm if it was 30%+ for 5 seconds). I also don't have the gold to just re-meta and gem it up to test it to see if it's a minimal difference. But I'm thinking the intellect and static crit is worth it in the end, even if only a little bit. Hoping someone with some theorycrafting experience might be able to give some input before I spend the VP/gold on my legendary meta.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Without putting it thru Sim and telling Sim to use procs properly, its probably worth it to drop the 4pc and do some testing.  The 5 sec proc is particularly useful for casting immolate in and CB if you have another small proc or you will cap before your next assumed proc. That being said, the base crit on the helm will allow you to try and max out immolate for damage and ticks over crit chance to generate embers and CB average should go up since that helm has much more of each stat your are looking for.  Also, you should gem the head out regardless and replace your shoulders and legs with tier if you have it assuming you want the 4pc back.  Head, chest, and legs have the highest stat budget meaning much more SP and much better to have heroic versions of (another good reason to drop the 4pc with those wf legs).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I gemmed the pants/helm and swapped it out, assuming the extra stats like you mentioned would be beneficial even when the 5 second proc's ICD is on its cooldown. I don't think I ever did have my tier shoulders from normal Blackfuse sadly lol I had an offset piece and straight to heroic, so we'll see how it goes. Appreciate the input though. I'm not entirely sure how to Sim let alone customize it to tell it when to proc, but as long as it's not a drastic drop in overall DPS, I'm not complaining about 570 ilvl. Thanks again for the input.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No problem.  It will come down to testing to see if the increase in stats is better.  Like I said, my thought is that since its a helm with ideal stat wait to replace the proc, overall DPS will increase as other procs have potential to be more potent overall.  Just don't miss your other procs and good luck!

 

P.S. - Clear for tier, worth it

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So far it's definitely worth the change. If I ever see H Thok/Siegecrafter/Paragons, of course I'll take the tier but I haven't seen any heroic tier beyond Nazgrim. Lazy guild is lazy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, I disagree that this change should be worth it.

 

The 4 set is better than you think it is. You can maintain immolate with 100% uptime on it, and with proper play you will be able to always have at least a 15% damage modifier on every chaos bolt.

 

The extra stats shouldn't trump the 4 set. You're only going from Normal to Heroic. If it was flex tier for 2x heroic off pieces then yeah it would be better to drop it.

 

I simmed you in your current gear vs what you had with 4 set, and 4 set came out ahead by 10K DPS.

 

Furthermore, you're going to get 4 set eventually. Why not learn how to use it now rather than later?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You should never drop your 4pc unless you're going from about LFR tier to RWF or H off items. Going from reg to heroic is way to small a gain in stats to drop your 4pc for.

 

 

Just look at the stats:

 

Heroic Swirling + RWF Shipley's = 4448int, 1445 crit, 3515mastery, 1314 haste and 320 hit.

 

Reg tier = 4140int, 1388crit, 2936 mastery, 1443 haste.

 

Going from tier to off set gives you 308 int, 57 crit, 579 mastery, 320 hit, with -129 haste.

 

 

4pc has about a 30% uptime, Immolate should have the extra 15% 100% of the time, CB will be snapped with it more times then not, and used well will buff your ember gen by a solid amount. 

 

The buff does scale with player skill like all snap shotting, the better you are the more valuable it is. If you find snap shotting to be an issue you have problems with now then you should be focusing on bettering your game play then +/- a few 100 stats.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"Only 15%..."

 

15% is not a small deal when you're talking about landing a Chaos Bolt.  If you use your 4pc on every Chaos Bolt and you average 1,000,000 baseline, you'll be doing 1,150,000 with each time.  7 proper Chaos Bolts will bang you out an additional 1M damage without trinket procs.  Your boost in stats won't give you that baseline.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well if these guys Sim'd it, I trust them, they put a lot more numbers into their input.  My perspective was that you weren't having fun trying to capture the proc being 5 seconds either due to latency or just lack of proper use with Immolate as priority, then CB.  Also, do not wait til HThok to pick up the 4pc again if not using it is working out better for you. Make the switch back even with Nazzy hands and go back to practicing because the 4pc is extremely strong if used properly.

Edited by Gnar

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Even if you aren't actively utilising 4pc to renew immolate and cast chaos bolts, it's still probably not worth dropping 4pc. But you should be actively utilising it because it's amazing.

Edited by Oldtrout

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Don't discount the overall extra embers you generate from immolate rolling with Crit% buffs up. Every crit of immolate gives you 0.2 embers. Over the course of the fight, you are going to be able to cast a few more CB's.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Don't discount the overall extra embers you generate from immolate rolling with Crit% buffs up. Every crit of immolate gives you 0.2 embers. Over the course of the fight, you are going to be able to cast a few more CB's.

Although what you said is rotationally correct, unlike other ember generators, Immolate generates .1 ember if and only if it crits. Just posting this to avoid confusion.

Edited by Gnar

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Although what you said is rotationally correct, unlike other ember generators, Immolate generates .1 ember if and only if it crits. Just posting this out to avoid confusion.

Ahh, yes was thinking of incinerate for some reason. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Similar Content

    • By platinumwolfe
      Guild Info:
      [Emerald Dream][A] <Scrub Squad> is a casual raiding guild, currently at 7/7H 3/3N 2/3H. We need a few more solid people to start Mythic!

      Raid Times:
      Our raid nights are Tuesday/Thursday from 8-12pm eastern.

      We're looking for people wanting to have fun while raiding and downing content. - No stress.
      We are looking for ranged and melee DPS for Mythic Progression.
      Also we run Mythic + all week and have several groups downing 11's and 12's. We hope to get up to 15 soon! 
      Currently looking for:
      Tanks: No demand
      Melee DPS: Low demand (Warrior, Havoc, Windwalker, or anyone exceptional)
      Ranged DPS: High demand (Mage, Hunter, Shadow Priest, Warlock, anyone exceptional)
      Healers: No demand
      We're at 19 members looking to get a few more to sit around 20-23. New members should be ilevel 860+ but that's not firm.

      About Our Current Members:
      Most have extensive raiding backgrounds, and some come from previous hardcore raiding guilds. We're looking for a casual environment for less stressful and more fun raiding.

      What Want In Members:
      Reliable - At least 80% attendance
      Friendly - fun loving!
      Self-motivated - players who can look up boss fights and class information on their own. With limited raiding time we can't afford to spend it all explaining boss mechanics multiple times.
      Chill - we're not looking for people who cause drama or place blame on people for failure.
      Attitude - Don't be a jerk, not just to guildies, but to everyone.
      Mature, Thick skinned - we can say some pretty offensive jokes.
      Ideally skilled - but that's something that can be helped.
      On the Emerald Dream server, or willing to transfer. For running Mythic raids, players have to be on our server.
      Feel free to pop into our recruitment discord to talk to an officer or leave a message! 
      https://discord.gg/y6ArYFU
      Battletag -  Wolfe#1468
       
    • By Dominia
      LOOKING FOR MORE DPS
      7/7 Normal EN
      7/7 Heroic EN
      3/3 Trial of Valor on Normal
      Starting H ToV soon
       
      <Mythic on Mains> is a heroic raid team comprised of adult raiders who value their time while progressing through current content. The core group came together in Warlords and cleared all content on both Normal and Heroic.
       
      We raid Thursday and Sunday evenings.
      Invites: 7:45pm -- First Pull: 8:00pm -- End: 11:00pm  (Eastern)
       
      Atmosphere
      ----------------
      We are a laid back group looking to have fun while working on current content.
      There will be wipes as we learn. But no raging tantrums or frothing at the mouth. Adult humor and language in chat and voice is ok, however be respectful and mature.
       
      Expectations
      -----------------
      Be available for a majority of both scheduled evenings (Thu/Sun) and for the entire scheduled raid time (Invites: 7:45pm, End: 11:00pm).
       
      We have very low tolerance for no-shows. We understand emergencies happen but ask that you make every effort to let us know of an absence as much in advance as possible. Remember there are other humans setting aside their time to do this as well. 
       
      Gear must be enchanted with appropriate enchants. 
       
      Slotted gear must be gemmed with appropriate gems.
       
      Maintain an appropriate understanding of your class talents and rotations. Healers must be able to heal effectively. Tanks must be able to tank effectively. DPS must be able to pew pew effectively.
       
      Bring appropriate buff food, potions (heal, mana, combat), and flasks.
       
      Read and view fight strategies and videos when asked. 
      Graciously take suggestions for improvement and direction on voice chat. 
       
      Bring the fun.
       
      If you are interested in joining us, please post the following information on Discord at https://discord.gg/KrmxZ9w and someone will get back to you as soon as possible:
      Toon Name@Server
      Class: Spec/Off Spec
      Main Spec: iLevel / artifact level / AK level
      Prior Raid Experience
      Battletag
      You do NOT have to server transfer or join the guild to play with us.
      Contact info:
      BNet: Dominia#1504
      Discord: Dominia#5437
      Twitter: @TheRealDominia
    • By Sappora
      Methodical is in search of dedicated players that are looking to push content in a semi-hardcore environment. All of our raiders try to be on a first-name basis with each other. Our raids are very fun when it comes to farm and carries, however, we do clean up when it's time for progression. When it comes to raiding we do provide benefits, paid for by selling carries. 
      All-in-all we are looking for players willing to: consistently improve their performance, take responsibility, and synergize with a group of players. If this interests you, all of our info is below.
      Information:
      Guild: Methodical
      Creation: 2013
      Server: Bleeding Hollow
      Faction: Horde
      VoIP: Discord
      Website: http://www.methodical-guild.net
      Raids:
      Raid Progression: 4/7 M EN 2/3 H ToV
      Raid Dates: Monday, Tuesday, Thursday.
      Raid Times: 9:30P-12:30A EST (Be online by 9:15P)
      Benefits:
      Spirit Cauldrons
      Potion Program
      Extensive Raid Repairs
      Recruitment:
      The below are just current needs, we are accepting all exceptional players.
      Tanks: N/A, looking for OS tanks and subs.
      Ranged: Boomkin & Others , & looking for subs
      Melee: Open (Non-Leather), & looking for subs.
      Healers: Restoration Shaman, looking for subs.
      If interested please contact one of the players listed below we can give information about: Bleeding Hollow, Methodical, and our raids. 
      Contact Info:
      Merkshow#1993 (GM)
      Sappora#1724 (Recruitment)
      Franny#1457 (Officer)
      Borlax#1380 (Officer)
       
    • By Wingria
      Overload is a progressive raiding guild on EU Darksorrow
      Raid Schedule
      Tuesdays/Thursdays: 19.30 - 22.30
      The guild is formed by ex-hardcore raiders who once strived to obtain realm firsts and top ranks. Since Legion we have gone from being a casual to progressive guild, the change was needed as we found it hard to balance being casual but trying to stick to a strict raiding format. We have now revamped and look at ourselves as a progressive guild with a strict system in place for raiders.
      Upon joining Overload players who are interested on staying on a social basis will be given membership rank. Players looking to apply for a raiding spot will undergo a 2 week trial period where their performance, attitude, readiness and playstyle will be evaluated using Warcraft Logs.
      Every player matters!
      It's about us as a community! We want everyone to be and feel a big part of the guild, no matter what level or guild rank. Our current officer team includes, Phailia (Guild Master & Recruitment) Calamity (Raid Leading/Event Organizer & Strategy) Aggravating (Theory-Crafting/Raider Evaluation & Strategy) and Wingria (Guild Management/Website/Loot Master & Logs). Officer meetings take place every Monday on discord at 20:00. Any idea's suggestions, concerns or issues can be brought up and discussed with an officer to be added to the agenda for these meetings.
      A life outside WoW
      We fully understand that players can’t play WoW 24/7
      (as much as some of us try!)
      The gaming experience should be a arranged arround your every day habbits and commitments. World of Warcraft should help provide relief to players from every day stress and worries; not adding to them. This is why our raid times are tailored to Tuesdays and Thursdays only. What we expect from our Raiders is to attend the raids 15 minutes prior to the time stated, informed, organised, and gear optimised for the encounter. If a player cannot make the raid they are expected to give plenty of notice on the AFK thread on the forum. 
      Interaction among members
      Overload is more than a place for raiding. We are a place to meet friendly players for a awesome hours of gaming. Being friendly and polite towards ALL players is very important to us and an essential part of being an Overloader. We want everyone to be comfortable and enjoy their game time; regardless if you are a raider or social member.
      Do you think you have what it takes to be part of Overload?
      Apply now and we look forward to welcoming you in Legion!
      [Current spots: Melee & Ranged DPS/ Priest or Shammy Healer]
    • By Reikettsu
      Like A Boss - 7/7H & 3/3N Recruiting DPS for Mythic progression.
       
      About us:
      Like A Boss was founded during WotLK by a small group of in real life friends. We are formerly a 10-man Heroic raiding guild that raided throughout WotLK and went on a hiatus during Firelands (Cataclysm). We are a semi-hardcore guild, and are looking for dedicated members who are able to make majority (if not all) of our scheduled raids. We have a casual-ish atmosphere with a serious desire for progression.
       
      What we are looking for:
      We currently have 15 raiders and we are looking to recruit more members to join our flexible raid roster so that we may progress into Mythic raids. At this moment, we are only seeking out DPS (prefer ranged). We are open to both new and returning players. While we prefer a geared player, we value a positive attitude over experience. Any players who are interested and able to make all (or some; we are open to "fillers") of the raid days/time, please contact us.
       
      Additional information and scheduled raids:
      Our raids are currently on Tues/Wed/Sun from 6:30pm PST till 8:30pm PST and we use Ventrilo (currently trying out Curse) for our raids. We typically try out new recruits for at least a week or two to ensure that it is a good fit for both the recruit as well as our guild. We encourage trials to join us in raids, dungeons, our VOIP, and/or even in other games. Raid spots are not guaranteed due to the flexible raid roster.
       
      Contact:
      If you are interested in our guild or want to know more, please message/add Shells-Bloodscalp or Ryozul#1598. For the horde!