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Durantye

Heroic Immerseus

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So I've never really bothered with ranking on immerseus before but because progression is over I'm doing my best to push ranks for fun. Unfortunately I can't really seem to figure out the trick to immerseus, 425k on my last heroic immerseus I had thought I'd done well and that the reason I couldn't rank was we got an extra phase or 2 but 4:16 isn't a bad kill time, not amazing but it is rankable.

 

http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-zjsmhcwvxxma5amr/sum/damageDone/?s=835&e=1091

 

I don't see how people are able to get what they do on the other logs, I can't seem to even get an incinerate off on them sometimes, I stopped using Mannoroth's fury for rain of fire cause it just seemed redundant. Anything off about the kill?

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Tell your raid to sit on their ass. Only real way you'll get a GREAT rank on Immer.

 

 

Also, I deleted your other topic per your request.

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Our boomkin ranked first for bommies because I was late to raid.  Basically, you can't have anyone attacking adds or at least anyone else with relevant AoE damage.

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Ranking at this point in progression requires special situations and raid-wide manipulation.  Ranks are hardly valued more than 10 weeks into progression. 

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Ranking at this point in progression requires special situations and raid-wide manipulation.  Ranks are hardly valued more than 10 weeks into progression. 

 

Kinda like what I did with Heroic Nazgrim two weeks back :P

 

It was fun, but I don't see us doing it again because it was only fun for the Warlocks :P

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Ranking at this point in progression requires special situations and raid-wide manipulation.  Ranks are hardly valued more than 10 weeks into progression.

 

For me at least, ranking it's pretty fun when u are doing nothing to padding/cheating like bring trash to fight or ignoring some mechanics or something like that. Simply fun indeed.

 

But fun apart, it's great to see self-improvement trough logs, better uptime and skills management.

Of course numbers are not everything but with warcraftlogs proper use, u could really be proud of yourself and your awesomeness.

Edited by JvChequer

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Kinda like what I did with Heroic Nazgrim two weeks back tongue.png

 

It was fun, but I don't see us doing it again because it was only fun for the Warlocks tongue.png

Yeah same as what we did on Galakras. Me and the prot warrior stayed down and the rest of the raid did grunts and towers, and single targeted mini bosses when necessary.

 

Fights like Immerseus/Galakras/Nazgrim are 'exploitable' in the sense that you can cheese a rank through various means, but most other fights do allow you a good indication of how you stack up.

 

That's what is fun about farm and pushing for ranks for me, and seems Chequer agrees. 

 

Ranking at this point in progression requires special situations and raid-wide manipulation.  Ranks are hardly valued more than 10 weeks into progression. 

To an extent yes, especially on the fights mentioned above, but there many fights which can't be manipulated in such ways.

 

Iron Juggernaut/Malkorok/Thok etc. Even stuff like blackfuse and paragons and garrosh. 

 

Of course, getting rank 1 also depends on getting tricks and good trinket/mechanic RNG, but if you play well week in week out, then you'll be rewarded with a top rank eventually, if you're good enough.

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Iron Juggernaut/Malkorok/Thok etc. Even stuff like blackfuse and paragons and garrosh. 

 

 

IJ - Give me a healer and a rogue to stack and not run away from IJ

Malk - tell people to fuck off on the adds for havoc pad

Thok - havoc padding and/or fully killing the Yeti

Blackfuse - let the raid do all of the work and just tunnel on Blackfuse, havocing on to the Shredder for embers

Paragons is the most fucking pad-able fight ever fucking made, it would take me six months to write the list of ways I could cheese the fuck out of it

Garrosh - tell the raid to fuck off and let me pad fulling on the adds during all of P1 and T2 - also it requires that you use the strat of KILLING T2 rather then standing at the back and skipping it like most guilds (mine included) does.

 

At least one tricks running on me on all of these fights timed so that I get it with CB dump.

 

Even on the two most straight forward fights, IJ and Malk, there is a major RNG factor just in the fight itself. If I get picked to be shot up first on Malk, I can kiss 150+ DPS good bye, same with IJ. I've had some weeks where I get picked for every fucking blade and drill there is and barely broke 300k.

 

Ranks, to me, mean nothing because I know all the ways that people can pad the crap out of stuff. Ranks on a person never impress me, what impresses me is logs and being in the top percentiles on every fight over the course of many weeks. This will *normally* indicate that someone doesn't pad, and simple does their job well.

 

I'm also a little bitter about RNG because I seem to almost always be at the wrong end of the bell, I still do solid DPS, but this tier has been really bad RNG for me.

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True, but the fights you linked you can still beat people by playing standard compared to their cheese tactics.

 

The only fight my guild let me 100% cheese the fuck out of has been this week on Galakras as I mentioned above. I may occasionally havoc chaos bolt when I should be using it for embers, but at this stage it isn't going to wipe the raid, and everybody else is doing it so why shouldn't I?

 

My response was mainly aimed at Zagam saying ranks require raid wide co-ordination to benefit one player. Some fights are impossible to rank on if you don't, such as Galakras, but everyone is aware these fights are a joke and just dismisses them.

 

I think you agree though, if you play well week in week out you'll eventually get that lucky streak of RNG you need to rank.

 

Some people just aren't bothered, and that's understandable, but for me it's what keeps things fun.

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Most fights don't require the coordination of a raid, just the lack of involvement. Best way to rank on a lot of fights is just to have the rest of your raid ignore a mechanic/adds. Bribing a rogue is just a bonus.

 

In theory if you play long enough you'll get the RNG you need, but that's in theory. It proves that it's better to be lucky then good.

 

I can't take ranks seriously, I can't take people that think ranks are a display of skill seriously, not saying you're one of them - I already know that you're not.

 

This is a game were I set a #18 US Aff rank on H Torots and held it for 4 weeks when I had been playing my warlock as my main for 8 days and was rocking a 474 ilvl. Set a #1 destro world rank (world meaning even beating the Asian ranks) on H Iron Qon that stood for 9 weeks, a #2 demo and #4 Aff on the same fight that stood for 5 weeks. These were nothing to do with skill, I was just the first one to find the most OP way to cheese a fight ever. ToT broke me, ranks used to matter to me before ToT. ToT broke that.

 

If there was a list of ranks for people that didn't bullshit, and another for people that did, I might care, but as long as people work and pay for ways to cheese a fight it will only devalue legitimate work and skill, and that's why I hate the ranking system. 

 

More of a rant then I meant, my point is mainly that if it's your thing then go for it, but the people that rely on ranks as a display of skill should be slapped.

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When I say ranks don't matter, I mean they don't matter in the grand scheme of things.  Percentile rankings mean more than a numerical rank.  RNG is FAR too great of a swing to say you're good week in and week out.  I can almost guarantee you that if you set your gear equal for 10 straight weeks of Malkorok pulls, you'd see a variance of over 10% purely from trinkets.  Add in more RNG with adds going out of control, having to soak puddles, or moving at any other point, and you blow your variance out of the water.  If you got a #1 rank, you had to have had the stars align.  It doesn't mean you're the best Warlock in the world.  It means you got the best RNG on that particular fight possible.  Let's face it - there are probably close to 1000 Warlocks in the world who are VERY good at the game as in capable of pulling a #1 parse.  What separates their numbers?  Strategy, RNG, and composition.  There are usually ways to manipulate fights for higher damage, but for the "measuring sticks" like IJ or Malkorok, say hello to the RNG gods and send them a thank you note if they blessed you.

 

If ranks make YOU feel better, then by all means, chase them.  Everyone plays the game for their own - I just tend to not value rankings of particular fights and can almost easily identify why someone was able to do 75k more DPS than me, and it's NEVER a measurable amount of skill.

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In theory if you play long enough you'll get the RNG you need, but that's in theory. It proves that it's better to be lucky then good.

 

Indeed, and this is my main gripe with Affliction this tier. It doesn't feel rewarding to play well if you get shit RNG. Destro and Demo feel like they offer enough to the player for personal skill to compensate for poor procs.

 

I'm looking forward to the stat squish and the removal of snapshotting (for the most part) in WoD for this reason. I saw the term 'World of Trinketcraft' and it's stuck with me for the past few months. Trinkets (bboy especially) and just general scaling of stats feels like it's broken the game.

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#UP

That's why I'm in favor of active trinkets with passive stats or just flat passive trinkets.

Trinkets how they're now it's game-breaking RNG-Tied....and sucks.

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#UP

That's why I'm in favor of active trinkets with passive stats or just flat passive trinkets.

Trinkets how they're now it's game-breaking RNG-Tied....and sucks.

 

I feel your pain, but I disagree.  0 procs the whole time Galakras was on the ground really killed my DPS, but to say, "Hey, give me passives so my CB is more like a 3 sec half cooked noodle all the time," would be soooo boring.  Procs make rotations dynamic.  The real problem right now is how big the procs are and how big the numbers are.  Spell modifiers scale by crazy percentages and these procs are gigantic making downtime a gigantic loss and good RNG uptime way too large of a gain.  ICD is no good because you either get ones that don't line up with mechanics or CD's or you end up micromanaging how you use CD's and mechanics with them no longer dynamically affecting rotation. RPPM is no good because...NO PROCS DURING FUCKING GAL HERO. RNG won't go away but I think Blizz is aware of its current state and is working on it.

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I feel your pain, but I disagree.  0 procs the whole time Galakras was on the ground really killed my DPS, but to say, "Hey, give me passives so my CB is more like a 3 sec half cooked noodle all the time," would be soooo boring.  Procs make rotations dynamic.  The real problem right now is how big the procs are and how big the numbers are.  Spell modifiers scale by crazy percentages and these procs are gigantic making downtime a gigantic loss and good RNG uptime way too large of a gain.  ICD is no good because you either get ones that don't line up with mechanics or CD's or you end up micromanaging how you use CD's and mechanics with them no longer dynamically affecting rotation. RPPM is no good because...NO PROCS DURING FUCKING GAL HERO. RNG won't go away but I think Blizz is aware of its current state and is working on it.

I respect your opinion but on my Pov we're like this:

- RNG Sucks, no skill involved, just lucky. Sucks. Period.

- ICD Sucks because looks random sometimes and make a mess on your cd manage the whole fight.

- Active Trinkets "sucks" - on blizzard logic - because it's just a button add into your rotation and does not add any complexity into game since it's just stacking CD's which he ( blizzard) doest not want to.

What remains to us?

Better boring passive trinkets or random shitty ones?

Or maybe....complex trinkets which the use of some X skills affect the CD usage of they then u cannot align with your other CDs ?

But it's that a button bloat that blizzard also want to avoid.

In that trinket problem...no matter what blizzard do... it sucks.

And I prefer that blizzard passively sucks that random sucks.

Edited by JvChequer

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Yeah, sometimes the RPPM-trinkets suck hard, especially KTT. Back to Back procs remind me of this one scene in The Dark Knight, where Joker is in custody and reveals to Batman, that he has kidnapped  Rachel:"Nothing to do with all your strength!", since I depleted my Embers during the first proc. And then it won´t proc for 2 minutes.

BTW, had someone else also the problem of KTT constantly underperforming? Not in damage contribution as percentage, but in number of procs in relation to all attacks.
I looked through my last 2 IDs and it procced on average for 91% of its estimated amount, rarely(4x) getting over 100%(highest 108%).
Of course 28 fights are not a real base for exhausting number crunching, but nevertheless it worries me if that is a permanent condition.

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BTW, had someone else also the problem of KTT constantly underperforming? Not in damage contribution as percentage, but in number of procs in relation to all attacks.

 

Haven't actually used it since the patch.

 

Upgraded BBoY and PBI, and will be dropping insta 1k valour on my shoulders from last week. Won't be using KTT for a while!

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Haven't actually used it since the patch.

 

Upgraded BBoY and PBI, and will be dropping insta 1k valour on my shoulders from last week. Won't be using KTT for a while!

I envy u.

Wish I got HWBBOY to drop my KTT.

I want more Mastery, need reach at 23k.

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I envy u.

Wish I got HWBBOY to drop my KTT.

I want more Mastery, need reach at 23k.

You envy me? None of my trinkets are warforged!

 

I miss farm raids and both the other locks have HCWF PBI. Two players have coined HCWF BBoY, the first of which was our bloody disc priest!

 

We're going 25 man tomorrow so fingers crossed that HCWF PBI will drop. I'll kill someone if I don't get it!

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Don´t be upset, if you don´t get a hc wf pbi... for my 25 man raid it dropped 3 times  so far while 5 people got it via bonus rolls

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Amplification for 582 PBI = 7 * 1.15^((582-553)/15) = 9.171644%

Amplification for 588 PBI = 7 * 1.15^((588-553)/15) = 9.698986%

 

Difference = 0.527342%, or 0.53%.  If you were sitting at 20k Mastery without PBI equipped, the 582 would give you 21834.  The 588 version would give 21940, or 106 more.  To put this in relative scale, that would boost your Incinerate by 0.16% and your Chaos Bolt by 0.5%.  Understandably, everyone wants the best they can possibly get, but I just want to remind everyone that HWF isn't going to knock the top off of anything anytime soon.  It's a VERY small gain, even when you consider it amplifies Haste and Crit damage.

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It's just the principle of it! Having it drop HCWF twice on 10 when I'm not even in the raid :(

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It's just the principle of it! Having it drop HCWF twice on 10 when I'm not even in the raid sad.png

Just trying to lessen your pain.

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I'll add my name to the list of QQ that has not seen a HWF trinket or weapon 

 

Our 10 man raid has only seem ONE HWF PBoI, no WF weapons, and no WF non spirit cloth.

 

All my WF items (3) have been coined.

 

 

 

In regards to trinkets, I like both RPPM and ICD as a combo.  I like RPPM for something to react to that makes the resource pooling game fun, but the added "reliable" proc to accompany it is nice.

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I'll add my name to the list of QQ that has not seen a HWF trinket or weapon 

 

Our 10 man raid has only seem ONE HWF PBoI, no WF weapons, and no WF non spirit cloth.

 

All my WF items (3) have been coined.

 

 

 

In regards to trinkets, I like both RPPM and ICD as a combo.  I like RPPM for something to react to that makes the resource pooling game fun, but the added "reliable" proc to accompany it is nice.

So I think I'm just lucky to raiding 10m and have 7 WF items.

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