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thi471

The 50% haste cap for resto shams?

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Just out of curiosity.. has anyone messed around with the 49.98% haste cap for a resto sham? (The last soft haste cap listed Restoration Shaman Healing Statistics Priority and Reforging (MoP 5.4) page)

 

if so how'd it do?

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Haven't done it myself; seems like too much of an investment into extra Haste for my liking.

 

I'd be interested in hearing if anyone else has, though.

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I played with 14044 (46.68%) haste for a while (about 3 months). Was good for me, because I like fast casting and always extremely pro-active.

But (!) you have to stay on more Spirit (12-12.5K vs 9.5-10K with less Haste) and, frankly, after 3 additional ticks of HST (33.29%) the rest of Haste caps are arguable in effort that you need to put to get there vs benefits you'll receive.

Except of this, you have to be really-really good in mana managing and knowing the encounters / healing planing.

So now I dropped to 33.29% with the rest in Crit - it's much easier to play with much more mana regen.

 

Maybe I'll check 59.94% (3 additional ticks of HTT and 4 of Riptide) next time when I'll get bored. :)

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Yeah, the Healing Rain 50% is great for fights like Thok and maybe Garrosh 25, but I don't see the point in it for any other fights.  You're just trading Crit/Mastery for an extra AoE tick and putting your mana control into jeopardy.  The throughput gain from HR isn't worth the throughput loss from the crit, at least in my opinion.

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Okay. So I did it yesterday - 60% of haste, 11K Spirit, rest in Crit. And it went really, really bad.

 

Logs: http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/ZYDWtMN8x6prg1y4#boss=-2

 

Immerseus and Protectors in 60% Haste build. It was so irritating that I reforged right in the instance before Norushen, but did not have a time to change the haste gems.

So on Norushen and Sha it was about 40% of Haste.

 

After Sha I went and regemmed properly for 33% haste and rest in crit. Did not drop the Spirit (just forgot), but 9500-10K would be enough here.

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/argent-dawn/Pandacho/advanced

 

It seems like in HMs all the Haste after 33% is pretty useless - all the healing is 'going to nowhere' and hps is much lower. And it's a big difference from Normals, where i raided with my another shaman toon (ilvl 557 vs 577 on Pandacho) and 42% of Haste. On NM I needed fast and consistant healing, while in HMs it's more like "oh, shit, the raid was on 95% HP and now on 30%, where are my Crits?!"

 

Enjoy the logs smile.png

Edited by Pandacho
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And it went really, really bad.

 

I'll be honest, I giggled.

 

Thanks for trying it and reporting back! ^__^

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I'll be honest, I giggled.

 

:P

Thanks to me from my raid group for not trying it on progress fights. ^^

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Your trading a decent mostly just to healing rain for a decent nerf to pretty much everything else. Not to mention you loose a nice bit of burst

 

Better hope HR makes up a ton of your healing

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Your trading a decent mostly just to healing rain for a decent nerf to pretty much everything else. Not to mention you loose a nice bit of burst

 

Better hope HR makes up a ton of your healing

I could see it being viable in 25m, as you can just spend your entire time tossing HR and super-charged RTs.  It would also make your AG/Ascend significantly more powerful, as you can spam more CHs during that time.  Mind you, you'd just drain your mana from that point.

 

In a 10m, the number of targets regularly in your HR and the fact that you can have over 100% RT uptime on every target makes it significantly less valuable.

 

Thanks for posting the logs, Pandacho!

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I tweeted about this thread a couple of days ago and got a reply from Kevorikan from Midwinter. He was telling me how it wasn't so bad, specifically on Blackfuse and Garrosh (Heroic, natch).

 

He did point out that regen was problematic on longer fights.

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Next week will do 25-man HMs and NMs. I can rebuild once more and post the logs for 25-man if you are interested, guys.

Yes, there are some fights where casting fast still more valuable than casting strong, but unfortunately we can't switch all the gems and reforges in raid after every fight. Thok, Blackfuse and Garrosh I would try in Haste. Norushen maybe. In 10-man it's more tricky if your second healer is not very good in direct healing.

I agree that in 25-man Haste build could be more valuable, because, as they say, you can just concentrate on HR, RT and CH here and there. I'll give it a try next week.

Edited by Pandacho

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Though I usually raid in 10s, last week I did 25HM (11/14) with 41% haste (RT breakpoint).

With two discs it was an overheal fest. On most fights I was sitting at about 70% overheal (on some it was 80%), and even on Thok I had 50%. Only fight I was sub 50% is Malk. Overall, kind of meh...

Your mileage may vary, especially if you reach the HR breakpoint, but don't expect a lot biggrin.png

Edited by lynx

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Blanked RT with 2 discs will always be an overheal fest regardless of breakpoint. If only totem breakpoints worked, thenn we would have something interesting to aim for between HR breaks

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Though I usually raid in 10s, last week I did 25HM (11/14) with 41% haste (RT breakpoint).

With two discs it was an overheal fest. On most fights I was sitting at about 70% overheal (on some it was 80%), and even on Thok I had 50%. Only fight I was sub 50% is Malk. Overall, kind of meh...

Your mileage may vary, especially if you reach the HR breakpoint, but don't expect a lot biggrin.png

 

Blanked RT with 2 discs will always be an overheal fest regardless of breakpoint. If only totem breakpoints worked, thenn we would have something interesting to aim for between HR breaks

Yeah, this... If you're 3 healing the majority of fights against 2 Disc priests, it won't matter how much haste you have.  You aren't healing much.

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Yeah, this... If you're 3 healing the majority of fights against 2 Disc priests, it won't matter how much haste you have.  You aren't healing much.

I dont think he was 3 healing 25 man :), and its not to say healing with 2 disc's in 25 man is bad, its just the main job of riptide blanketing (healing light raid damage) disc's do much better with attonment

 

So you should focus on what you can do better, ie bursting the raid back to full HP after burst aoe.

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It was a 4-5 heal run (depends on fight). There was also a tree with us, he overhealed as much as I did biggrin.png, and another ele shaman who specced resto for Thok and IJ (since we dps'ed through siege mode).

 

Yeah, burst healing still worked fine. My idea was to empower Ascendance with the extra RT tick, and it worked. But out of that, it all felt meh. Yeah, heals were coming out faster, but it all went to overheal. Went back to ~9200 right after it.

Don't know, maybe it was because we had 2 discs, and overall I felt kind of useless out of burst phases and Malk. As I wrote before, I usually raid on 10s, where co-healing with a disc is actually my preferred configuration (mainly because then two healing IJ and Thok is not that hard tongue.png ), but on 25 two discs felt just too much.

Edited by lynx

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and overall I felt kind of useless out of burst phases

 

 

 

Nothing Wrong with that, most of the healing outside that is just noise

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More logs to play smile.png

25-man with 4 healers. Immerseus NM, Protectors, Norushen HM, Sha NM, Galakras HM

http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/m6fw3g2K74TFAdbB#boss=-2&type=healing&source=34

 

I reforged to 42% Haste, 10500 Spirit. I think that I'll stop on these values for 25-man HMs. Very comfortable both in reaction time and throuput.

 

PS: Do we have something like Comparebot for Warcraftlogs?

Edited by Pandacho

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Just sharing another persons experience

In our 10M Herioc team, our 2 main heals are a pally-druid; I am the third heals on certain fights. i.e. In the first half I heal on Immerseus/ The Fallen Protectors / Iron Juggernaut and dps for the others. I have to say one of the things I love about shaman is the fact we can switch roles like this and experience two different roles in raids smile.png

I found a high haste (around 36%) - low spirit build very good for both Immerseus and Iron Juggernaut. I found HST with Rushing Streams and Glyph riptide makes me much more mobile as a healer and was noticeably better IMHO on both fights. I keep HST up as much as possible, riptide 5 or so people and chain heal when needing to top up people (I also have glyph of Chaining in for IJ). There is a fair amount of overheals but it does keep people topped up nicely.

On The Fallen Protectors I found a High Crit / High Spirit build worked better for me. I tried both Healing rain with conductivity and HST with Rushing steams combinations and examining the log found better results with Rushing steams which surprised me. The need to dispel and burst nature of the damage here means the extra spirit is needed to generate the manna required in this fight.

I have been tweaking stats after getting some gear last week or two so am going to try a 14400 (40.6%) haste build and see if I can get a bit more out of HST.

p.s. The high haste build also fits nicely with the Haste DPS elemental build which I use.

p.p.s Having two crafted belts, one setup for spirit and one for haste helps with switching between the builds mentioned above without needing to regem/reforge

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/khazgoroth/Grautod/advanced

Edited by grautod

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Just sharing another persons experience

In our 10M Herioc team, our 2 main heals are a pally-druid; I am the third heals on certain fights. i.e. In the first half I heal on Immerseus/ The Fallen Protectors / Iron Juggernaut and dps for the others. I have to say one of the things I love about shaman is the fact we can switch roles like this and experience two different roles in raids smile.png

I found a high haste (around 36%) - low spirit build very good for both Immerseus and Iron Juggernaut. I found HST with Rushing Streams and Glyph riptide makes me much more mobile as a healer and was noticeably better IMHO on both fights. I keep HST up as much as possible, riptide 5 or so people and chain heal when needing to top up people (I also have glyph of Chaining in for IJ). There is a fair amount of overheals but it does keep people topped up nicely.

On The Fallen Protectors I found a High Crit / High Spirit build worked better for me. I tried both Healing rain with conductivity and HST with Rushing steams combinations and examining the log found better results with Rushing steams which surprised me. The need to dispel and burst nature of the damage here means the extra spirit is needed to generate the manna required in this fight.

I have been tweaking stats after getting some gear last week or two so am going to try a 14400 (40.6%) haste build and see if I can get a bit more out of HST.

p.s. The high haste build also fits nicely with the Haste DPS elemental build which I use.

p.p.s Having two crafted belts, one setup for spirit and one for haste helps with switching between the builds mentioned above without needing to regem/reforge

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/khazgoroth/Grautod/advanced

The problem with Conductivity is that it doesn't REALLY increase the value of your Healing Rain, and instead makes it just last a lot longer, so it has no real world value besides the 3 extra casts you get per HR.  Compared to Rushing Streams, which is a major throughput increase, it's really no contest.

 

High haste builds definitely have a place, and would arguably have a higher value in 10m (due to the higher contribution of HST, and the ability to constantly RT all targets), so I'm glad it's working out for you!

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I'm with Hybrys on this, I look at conductivity mainly as a mana preserving talent, and avoid it on all fights except sha. Even protectors, which is probably the most mana intensive fight (barring rng on sha) doesn't require conductivity and RS is the superior choice. One thing to note though, on some fights AG is clearly better than RS (galakras, malkorok, thok and in some cases garrosh).

 

Until a month ago I used to run exclusively 10s and haste worked quite well there, but still heavy crit did better (eventually settled on ~9.2k haste) and wasn't as taxing on mana management. Though it's not the same as mentioned because we were two healing the content. When three healing haste might be better.

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