Jump to content
FORUMS
Sign in to follow this  
Hybrys

Ask a Beta Tester: Shamans

Recommended Posts

It's been a little bit quiet around here lately, but I've been busy and realms haven't been great for testing.

 

I have made it to 92, and it was a very smooth levelling process, minus a spawning bug (quest spawns weren't scaling with the population).  I'm not 100% pleased with our mobility, since Unleash Flame no longer does damage but still alerts the enemy.

 

Combat logs are currently broken, and I can't parse, but things look pretty good for our position after the stat squish.  Multistrike is starting to be better and better for us, with Fire Ele and Searing Totem being affected by it in a coming build.  Versatility seems to be scaling on a curve, like I was originally thinking, but it's value is fairly low for us on the outset.

 

I think Ele will be favoring Haste > Multistrike > Mastery > Versa > Crit, with Crit and Versatility swapping placing depending on the contribution of Searing Totem.  Haste, Multistrike, and Mastery are close, and all three scale directly with each other, but I'm seeing the contribution of Fulmination quite high, and with Multistrike being a basic copy of our Mastery with two rolls @ 30% damage, it has the upper hand in generating stacks.  It's possible that Multistrike will take over top spot if it scales well enough, but Haste will always be very valuable, directly increasing the chance of Multistrike procs, Fulmination charges, and Lava Surge chances.

 

Enh should be favoring Haste > Mastery > Crit > Multistrike > Versa with my first glance at it.  This is because we'll be getting a passive ala Sanctity of Battle, which should be very strong in combination with No-ICD Windfury, and should eliminate any hardcasting scenarios w/ Lightning Bolt and Maelstrom stacks.  In turn, shorter cooldowns on Stormstrike and Lava Lash should make Mastery almost as valuable as it is today, increasing a majority of your damage by a flat percentile.  I'm not sold on Multistrike vs Crit, but feel that Crit may have higher value because of the Mastery you'd be wanting, and Multistrike doesn't seem to have any mechanical advantage, and would most likely have the larger RNG swing. 

 

Resto is as much of a toss up as ever.  I'm leaning towards Mastery >= Haste > Multistrike > Crit > Versa, but Mastery's value is based on damage in vs healing out, and may swing too much depending on the encounter.  If we see a true Triage healing model, it SHOULD come ahead, but if not we may be in the same position we are today, with it being very valuable some of the time.  With the way combat mana regen works right now, I'm hesitant to offer much value to Crit, as it's value is in it's throughput increase AND it's mana regen.  If it's mana regen is completely wasted, then why bother having it over something like Haste?  Remember that with partial ticks being a thing, Hastes value for Riptide, Healing Stream, and Healing Rain should increase linearly instead of requiring specific breakpoints.

 

Once I can parse again I'll be able to look at stats a little closer, but that's my early analysis, estimates, and guesses.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You guys and your making me reply to myself all the time.

 

Some really big changes coming down the pipeline for Ele, including a full redesign of our Mastery and a significant buff to Multistrike!

 

  • Mastery: Elemental Discharge - Shaman - Elemental Spec.
    When you deal damage with Lightning Bolt, Chain Lightning, and Earth Shock, you have 16% chance to gain Electric Charge. At 3 Electric Charges, a Lightning Strike hits the target for 100% SP Nature damage. When you deal damage with Lava Burst, Lava Beam, and Flame Shock, you have an 16% chance to gain Rising Heat. At 3 Rising Heats, an Eruption hits the target for 100% SP Fire damage.
  • If you're specced into Elemental Blast, it offers a 16% chance for BOTH Electric Charge and Rising Heat.
     
  • Elemental Overload - Shaman - Elemental Spec.
    You have a 20% increased chance to multistrike. Your multistrikes deal 35% additional damage (to 40.50% total damage per Multistrike). You gain 5% more of the Multistrike stat from all sources.

This obviously throws my entire stats analysis out the window, and I think we'll instead be looking at:

Multistrike > Haste > Mastery >= Crit > Versa.

 

I'm not super excited about the new Mastery, and figure that a majority of it's damage potential was instead shifted to the Multistrike boosted passive.  Haste will retain it's power for allowing more Multistrikes and Mastery procs, and crit will now affect a larger portion of your damage, with half of your Mastery procs no longer auto-critting.  Again, take this with an entire truckload of salt, because this isn't based on testing and hard math, but based on some simple observations.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

and crit will now affect a larger portion of your damage, with half of your Mastery procs no longer auto-critting

Probably the purpose behind the change, they have stated before that then intend to close the cap between secondary stats

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i hope we get the spell Thrall uses, where a giant rock spike comes up out of the ground. that looks like fun.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Hybrys, I am kind of curious how chain lightning will interact with the new mastery. Is each 'hit' consider as an independent event for the charges? This might be super cool with a  lot of procs when chain lightning spamming.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Hybrys, I am kind of curious how chain lightning will interact with the new mastery. Is each 'hit' consider as an independent event for the charges? This might be super cool with a  lot of procs when chain lightning spamming.

Yes, each Chain Lightning or Lava Beam can produce 1 chance for every enemy hit.  So, if you're really lucky (or have super high Mastery), it can proc up to 5 times on a single Chain Lightning.

 

Now what I'm more curious about is which target it picks when you're doing that, and if it would be responsive enough to proc on all 5, get to 3, spend it, and leave you with 2 more charges.

 

 

It is worthwhile to note that Lightning Bolt Multistrike hits will NOT be proccing this Mastery, unlike the design of Fulmination.  It's unclear if it's JUST Lightning Bolt, or if it's any spell's multistrike.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Okay, so I saw a report on the beta forums about this, and then no one replied to them... so I asked around on twitter and Olivia Grace said she thinks it's right (just from questing recall, not testing);

 

Unleash Flame isn't getting consumed by casts.

 

So, um... can someone confirm/deny this?  The documentation hasn't changed, and I can't check myself... (please check both with and without Unleashed Fury).  If it's true and not a bug or something, this is huge!  And... awesome!  And kind of terrifying for what it does to our Ascendance output.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's a bug.  In the last build, it wasn't affecting Fire spells at all.  This build, it is affecting Fire spells (by 40%), but isn't being consumed by Fire spells, and the tooltip still shows 0% bonus damage.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We're sure it's a bug, though?  And not new design?

 

Assuming it's a bug, though, UF is worth casting on a 2-stack-Fusion flame shock, barely (same effective damage as Lighting Bolt, shorter cast time, though it can't generate Lightning Shield charges) and... when talented.  Otherwise it's absolute garbage.  If they make it not require a hostile target it'll be worth casting pre-pull and never again, or I guess if Spiritwalker's Grace runs out and you still need to move, but otherwise terrible.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We're sure it's a bug, though?  And not new design?

 

Assuming it's a bug, though, UF is worth casting on a 2-stack-Fusion flame shock, barely (same effective damage as Lighting Bolt, shorter cast time, though it can't generate Lightning Shield charges) and... when talented.  Otherwise it's absolute garbage.  If they make it not require a hostile target it'll be worth casting pre-pull and never again, or I guess if Spiritwalker's Grace runs out and you still need to move, but otherwise terrible.

I'm not 100%, but I'm fairly sure it's just incomplete code, since it's changed slowly over builds, and it was originally stated that Unleash Flame would have the same effect as now.

 

A periodic 40% fire boost for 20 seconds would toss our entire damage breakdown out of whack, and would mean our damage would be SO low outside of it, or without our Fire spells.  I'm not going to weigh into how we're balanced now, because we know they haven't done damage passes yet... I just see too big of an implication.

 

Movement, I think, will be it's only application.  That, or they boost the Flame Shock coeff so that Flame Shock w/ Unleash Flame gives at least a 10% gain over LB.  If they are making it permanent, I'd expect a much lower duration (maybe 6-8 seconds) or a much lower damage boost (maybe ~20%).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not 100%, but I'm fairly sure it's just incomplete code, since it's changed slowly over builds, and it was originally stated that Unleash Flame would have the same effect as now.

 

A periodic 40% fire boost for 20 seconds would toss our entire damage breakdown out of whack, and would mean our damage would be SO low outside of it, or without our Fire spells.  I'm not going to weigh into how we're balanced now, because we know they haven't done damage passes yet... I just see too big of an implication.

 

Movement, I think, will be it's only application.  That, or they boost the Flame Shock coeff so that Flame Shock w/ Unleash Flame gives at least a 10% gain over LB.  If they are making it permanent, I'd expect a much lower duration (maybe 6-8 seconds) or a much lower damage boost (maybe ~20%).

 

I dunno, I could see an Inquisition style thing here; the main complaint about Inquisition was the resource cost on it, Unleash Flame costs you "only" a GCD (though time is, essentially, our primary resource).  You'd be balanced assuming it was up because... it would always be up.  If it got the DoT refresh flexibility treatment, it could be an acceptable mechanic.  If the duration was less than the cooldown, it basically has the same play as Unleashed Fury does now (save it for Ascendance, otherwise cast on cooldown).

 

Either way, it would certainly better than "use when you can't use anything else because this is garbage", because less than 10% over lightning bolt even with Elemental Fusion is "don't use Searing Totem because the gain is way smaller than the cost of screwing up" territory.

 

 

EDIT:  Binkenstein got back to me on twitter, he says it's properly a bug.  So... it's back to being garbage filler for when you can't cast your other filler.

Edited by SparkSovereign

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

EDIT:  Binkenstein got back to me on twitter, he says it's properly a bug.  So... it's back to being garbage filler for when you can't cast your other filler.

I don't know why Bink would magically know more than me... But, the bug is now fixed on the current build.

 

On an odd note, Earthquake is back?

 

I'm going to be streaming some live L100 testing and TC right now.  Come on in!

 

Base 100 stats:

626 Str

1282 Agi

1041 Int

891 Stam

 

Base scaling:

110 Crit Rating / 1% Crit

100 Haste / 1% Haste

55 Mastery / 1% Mastery

66 Multistrike / 1% Multistrike  (Includes passive amp)

130.5 Versatility / 1% Versatility Damage/Healing

 

Storm Ele:

 

Extremely weak right now.  Damage approximated from naked, unbuffed, counting only Hits, not crits/multistrikes/etc.

Wind Gust - ~1500 small hits (Approx 144% SP, should be 214%.)

Call Lightning - ~2600 large hits (Approx 250% SP, should be 428%, or exactly double.)

 

http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/py49wtLZA8XB6mJ7#type=damage-done&source=13&boss=0&pins=0%24Main%24%23244F4B%24casts%240%240.0.0.Any%24269193.0.0.Shaman%24true%240.0.0.Any%24false%24157331&start=23598&end=82594

 

Primal seems completely broken.  Chalking this up to not yet implemented properly.

 

http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/py49wtLZA8XB6mJ7#type=damage-done&source=13&boss=0&pins=0%24Main%24%23244F4B%24casts%240%240.0.0.Any%24269193.0.0.Shaman%24true%240.0.0.Any%24false%24157331&start=1137211&end=1220973

 

Liquid Molten doesn't currently work with Fire Elemental Totem, and just doesn't feel great.  The optimal play is to use it immediately as you drop the totem, then within a 3 seconds window as it comes off cooldown.  If you don't, you either lose duration on it's buff, or you have to wait another ~15 seconds for your next totem.

 

Elemental Fusion feels very passive and easy to play, but it was actually surprisingly easy to mess up.  If I was to cap Fulmination right after I reapply Flame Shock, I have no fusion stacks to roll into the Earth Shock unless I get really lucky.  With the new Fulmination depth, it wasn't a huge problem, but it did come up a few times.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

Elemental Fusion feels very passive and easy to play, but it was actually surprisingly easy to mess up.  If I was to cap Fulmination right after I reapply Flame Shock, I have no fusion stacks to roll into the Earth Shock unless I get really lucky.  With the new Fulmination depth, it wasn't a huge problem, but it did come up a few times.

 

Do you think this is the intended feel? Perhaps to keep shock management a "feature"?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Do you think this is the intended feel? Perhaps to keep shock management a "feature"?

Yes, and I do like that there is some gameplay there.  At the same time, Earth Shock is an inconsequential damage source and buffing it isn't my main concern.  My only concern becomes keeping a buffed Flame Shock active.

 

I think Liquid Magma will be the clear winner here, but we'll have to see when the time comes.  Good execution of Liquid Magma will also be very difficult and rewarding.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

I think Liquid Magma will be the clear winner here, but we'll have to see when the time comes.  Good execution of Liquid Magma will also be very difficult and rewarding.

 

Because of the significant penalty for neglecting to hit it quite close to the time it comes off CD?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Because of the significant penalty for neglecting to hit it quite close to the time it comes off CD?

Yeah.  Think about it this way:

 

0:00 You drop Searing Totem

1:50 You use Liquid Magma

46:50 Liquid Magma comes off cooldown

49:50 Last window to use Liquid Magma without cutting off it's duration.

 

If you miss that 3 seconds window (and this is before counting latency, mind you), you have to wait another 10.5 seconds, then drop another Searing, then drop Liquid Magma, and be stuck in the same situation again in 45 seconds.

 

If you meet that window, the next time it comes up is at 30-40 seconds into your next Searing, and you repeat that for another 2 before it happens again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ah, so it uses a rather odd implementation then--a "buff on a particular totem object," as opposed to the more straightforward "buff on player that makes your active fire totem shoot lava." This is the first time we're seeing totem-instanced buffs, isn't it?

 

I imagine this also means taking Totemic Projection is basically required if you take Liquid Magma

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ah, so it uses a rather odd implementation then--a "buff on a particular totem object," as opposed to the more straightforward "buff on player that makes your active fire totem shoot lava." This is the first time we're seeing totem-instanced buffs, isn't it?

 

I imagine this also means taking Totemic Projection is basically required if you take Liquid Magma

You're be absolutely right, it's the first 'buff on a totem' we've seen.  And, at least for now, it's restricting in that way.

 

You COULD also force a refresh, and just drop a new Searing every 45 seconds, but then you cut yourself out of that extra GCD, and that would annoy me, if anything.

 

Projection shouldn't be MANDATORY, but it would definitely be recommended if you're using Liquid Magma for an add fight or something.  With intelligent placement, it shouldn't be a big deal.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We're seeing some... pretty odd revisions in the latest build.  This one I wanted to touch on as being SPECTACULAR:

The implications of that new 4pc are HUGE, and I think it's AMAZING.  Being able to basically force a Lava Surge on demand could turn your burst outside Ascendance from novel to devastating.  Imagine this.  You're at 10 stacks of Fulmination.  You get an Echo proc.  You fire off one Lava Burst, now a second one, both of them giving a stack of Fulm each.  Now you Earth Shock, and Lava Burst.  Hilariously fun and powerful.

 

 

Now for the oddities....

  • Mastery: Molten Earth (New) Your damaging spells incite the earth around you to come to your aid for 6 sec, repeatedly dealing [ 80% of Spell Power ] Fire damage to your most recently attacked target. Shaman - Elemental Spec.

So our Lightning Overload-flavored mastery gets canned for a... very passive rolling damage increase?  Boring.

 

And then the one change predicted by Nefigah coming true, with Elemental Blast now increasing your versatility as well!

  • Elemental Blast (Elemental) Harness the raw power of the elements towards an enemy target, dealing [ 164.51% of Spell Power ] Elemental damage and increasing your Critical Strike, Haste, Mastery, Multistrike, or Versatility by 534 for 8 sec.

With five buffs to choose from, does that increase it's effectiveness, or decrease it, by making Versatility and Crit both flavours you want to avoid?  Time will tell on this one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

At least this mastery looks less useless for leveling.  That coefficient seems really off, too... is this just "steady stream of damage as long as I hit someone in the last 6 seconds" or does each spell start up a firequake?  I'm assuming the former, which means that either "repeatedly" is kinda slow (once every 3 seconds at fastest) or this is a truly ridiculous amount of passive damage.  Other questions; does the rate of "repeatedly" scale with haste?  Can these multistrike?  If yes, either "160%" was supposed to be "16%" or the difference between playing with a drinking bird on your LB key and actual perfect play is going to be tragically small.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

At least this mastery looks less useless for leveling.  That coefficient seems really off, too... is this just "steady stream of damage as long as I hit someone in the last 6 seconds" or does each spell start up a firequake?  I'm assuming the former, which means that either "repeatedly" is kinda slow (once every 3 seconds at fastest) or this is a truly ridiculous amount of passive damage.  Other questions; does the rate of "repeatedly" scale with haste?  Can these multistrike?  If yes, either "160%" was supposed to be "16%" or the difference between playing with a drinking bird on your LB key and actual perfect play is going to be tragically small.

It does scale with haste, can Multistrike, and it's just as large as you think it is.  It also rolls like ignite, so the newest tick is the last portion + the new first tick.  It does start with a much lower portion of damage (at 32%), but it scales very quickly (1137 = 41.35%, so 27.5 / 1%)

 

http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/gMqVTn2GRhAc3Yfy#boss=-3&type=damage-done&source=6

 

Mind you, they MASSIVELY broke us.  Lava Surge isn't consumed by Lava Burst right now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is how EQ looks vs CL on 5 target dummies stacked fairly tight together.

 

http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/jkVdX9YFAzCZrwBc#type=damage-done&source=3

 

We see CL doing ~21.8k per cast, which makes it's DPET around 12.4k. (@1.76 cast time)

 

EQ instead is doing ~43.6k per cast, only cast at 5 stacks of Improved Chain Lightning, which makes it's DPET around 19.8k. (@2.2 cast time)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

did anyone fight the raid bosses last night? i missed it.

Not me.  Sounds like The Butcher was really poorly made, at the very least.

 

I'm waiting for the second round, for sure.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Similar Content

    • By Tomseno
      Raid/Class Spots Are Open To Any Applicant If The Player Is The Right Fit
      A guild formed with an ambition for progression and a love for M+ we decided to make the move from Silvermoon Alliance and form a guild to take our focus to the next level, Cutting Edge in 10.1 being the next step.
      We believe in building a guild by recruit players of a similar goal and mentality whether it be for raiding or for push score in Mythic plus. We value loyalty, honesty and a positive attitude towards setbacks. Communication skills are an absolute must.
      Raid Schedule
      Wednesday 20:30-23:00 Sunday 20:30-23:00
      Current Progression
      9/9HC 5/9M
      What are we looking for recruitment wise?
      We're currently open to recruiting DPS classes listed above, as we aim to solidify a stable 25-player roster. We're looking to provide competition to existing members and choose the best 25 players to proceed with for next tier.
      Contact Information:
      Discord; tomsen and lora1506
      Think you'd be a good fit?
      If you believe that you are a player that is looking to achieve the same goals as us then why not contact us and see if we can achieve our goals together!
    • By fryguy
      ### Totemly Awesome!
      # Class: Shaman
      # Format: Wild
      #
      # 2x (0) Totemic Surge
      # 1x (2) Cagematch Custodian
      # 2x (2) Devolve
      # 2x (2) EVIL Totem
      # 2x (2) Flametongue Totem
      # 2x (2) Serpent Ward
      # 2x (2) Totem Golem
      # 1x (2) Trick Totem
      # 1x (2) Vitality Totem
      # 1x (3) Grand Totem Eys'or
      # 1x (3) Instructor Fireheart
      # 2x (3) Mana Tide Totem
      # 2x (3) Totemic Reflection
      # 2x (4) Draenei Totemcarver
      # 2x (4) Splitting Axe
      # 2x (5) Totem Goliath
      # 2x (6) Thing from Below
      # 1x (9) Alexstrasza the Life-Binder

      AAEBAZyrBAbXD5zOA7fSA6reA9/hA7CKBAzwB7IU+6oC9r0CiIUDnaMD2qUD+aUDlrkDptED/58E5KAEAA==

      # To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and create a new deck in Hearthstone
       
    • By positiv2
      This thread is for comments about our Restoration Shaman Shadowlands Leveling Guide.
    • By positiv2
      This thread is for comments about our Enhancement Shaman Shadowlands Leveling Guide.
    • By positiv2
      This thread is for comments about our Elemental Shaman Shadowlands Leveling Guide.
×
×
  • Create New...