Lucivero

Ret Paladin lacking somewhere

48 posts in this topic

Hi guys,

 

I've started playing WoW last December and I've basically only played Retribution because i enjoy playing it, but i feel like i'm lacking somewhere with my DPS, hence why i'm posting this thread!

 

Armory:

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/tarren-mill/Thaurando/advanced

 

Logs:

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/i0aa44aqtd3dbvrj/details/17/

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/kz0r8r7daougwpa5/details/21/

 

Rotation:

Pretty much the same as in the guide.

 

Procs:

Exorcism when procced <5 HP.

4PT16 when at 5 HP or in downtime (rarely ever).

 

I'd appreciate any help that i can get with this, i'll try to answer any questions asap!

 

Thaurando

 

P.S. I tend to forget to line up my procs with major cooldowns mid-fight, something i'm working on to incorporate to my habits.

Also my inq uptime isnt optimal, working on that one as well, somehow i still miss the massive warning in the middle of my screen yelling at me that my Inq is about to run out..

I just don't feel like those 2 are the only problems that i have though.

 

P.P.S. I read something about a different rotation on higher ilvls due to the increase in mastery, would this mean the suggested rotation in the guide is no longer the right one for me?

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Just glancing at your logs (I don't have much time right now) your HoW damage seems to be low for having SW. That's just a quick glance. I'd also be interested to hear your explanation on what you're saying about your procs.

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I'm not an expert on Ret Paladin, just started to play with mine a bit more, but I will say that if you can, use Warcraftlogs instead of Worldoflogs, it's much more updated, and it's much easier to read.

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Just glancing at your logs (I don't have much time right now) your HoW damage seems to be low for having SW. That's just a quick glance. I'd also be interested to hear your explanation on what you're saying about your procs.

 

I'm using HoW on cooldown so not sure why it's low.

And about the procs, just thought i'd add that in case anyone asked me how i handle those procs in my rotation.

Basically meant this with it:

Using Exorcism as HP generator whenever it procs and i'm below 5 HP.

Using my DS proc whenever i'm at 5 HP before using my next spender.

 

 

I'm not an expert on Ret Paladin, just started to play with mine a bit more, but I will say that if you can, use Warcraftlogs instead of Worldoflogs, it's much more updated, and it's much easier to read.

 

 

I'm currently not logging myself, so i had to use the guild logs which are uploaded on worldoflogs, seems like this is a good time to start logging myself, so thanks for the tip :)

Edited by Lucivero

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Well that's a problem right there, using exo on proc isn't a good idea, exo is the lowest in priority right now, so even if it procs it's only to be used when you have nothing else, even behind t16 4pc, which should be used basically like you are using it, but also as long as cs and judge are on cd is a good time to use it.

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Well that's a problem right there, using exo on proc isn't a good idea, exo is the lowest in priority right now, so even if it procs it's only to be used when you have nothing else, even behind t16 4pc, which should be used basically like you are using it, but also as long as cs and judge are on cd is a good time to use it.

 

I should have stated that better; I only use it when there are no other HP generators up and i'm below 5 HP.

But other than that, any idea what i'm missing / doing wrong?

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First off all i think your damage is quite fine.

You lack for HoW at some points - as Auriel has already mentioned.

 

I have compared your Malkorok fight with some logs from Auriel wink.png

 

You: 

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/i0aa44aqtd3dbvrj/sum/damageDone/?s=9011&e=9274

27 HoW = 6.31 mio dmg points

 

Auriel:

http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/DZRrgBtkKmTaqxjp#fight=34&type=damage-done&source=3&pins=0%24Main%24%23244F4B%24any%24-1%24140883854.0.0.Paladin%240.0.0.Any%24true%240.0.0.Any%24true%2424275

57! HoW = 11.43 mio dmg points

 

I'm not shure if the 17k haste cap is rigorous but if so you are maybe loosing some HoW for this (- but not the whole bunch of 30 HoW huh.png )

 

Edit: How does your rotation looks like when AW is up?

 

Edit#2: Your TV usage is also low.

Edited by LobbyBoy

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Hi sorry I've been late to the party. I'm in the process of moving and do not have Internet at the moment. And when I do, I'm at work and have limited time to really dive deep. I'll take a look at this soon, but I trust a lot of advice from LobbyBoy and Auriel. 

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... but I trust a lot of advice from LobbyBoy and Auriel. 

 

Oh boy, you make me blush wub.png

 

Edit: Time has come - Gnomeregan gets connected! wink.png

Edited by LobbyBoy
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First off all i think your damage is quite fine.

You lack for HoW at some points - as Auriel has already mentioned.

 

I have compared your Malkorok fight with some logs from Auriel wink.png

 

You: 

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/i0aa44aqtd3dbvrj/sum/damageDone/?s=9011&e=9274

27 HoW = 6.31 mio dmg points

 

Auriel:

http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/DZRrgBtkKmTaqxjp#fight=34&type=damage-done&source=3&pins=0%24Main%24%23244F4B%24any%24-1%24140883854.0.0.Paladin%240.0.0.Any%24true%240.0.0.Any%24true%2424275

57! HoW = 11.43 mio dmg points

 

I'm not shure if the 17k haste cap is rigorous but if so you are maybe loosing some HoW for this (- but not the whole bunch of 30 HoW huh.png )

 

Edit: How does your rotation looks like when AW is up?

 

Edit#2: Your TV usage is also low.

 

During AW: HoW - Filler - How - Filler - HoW - TV - HoW

Unless if a DS proc is up, then i use that one first and then TV .

 

I pretty much use HoW on cooldown so i have no idea why it's so low, i'm gonna have to keep an eye on that then.

And same goes for TV usage, not sure how that one can even be low, especially on single target, it's basically the only way to spend HP when Inq is up.

So i'm a little bit confused by how this is possible, guess i'll at least be reforging so i go slightly over the 17.000 rather than below to be safe.

 

 

@Lucivero

I just realised your P.S and P.P.S ... logs have some magical attraction to me so i missed a few lines of your first post below the links wink.png

 

We had a similar question a few weeks ago. Please take a look at

http://www.icy-veins.com/forums/topic/6042-ret-question-about-trinkets-and-cds/?p=63978

 

Maybe this can help you.

 

Checked it out, so by the looks of it Exo has a priority over Judgement for me now.

And the trinket part is something i really need to start working on, i'm losing quite a lot of damage by forgetting to line the procs up with cooldowns mid-fight..

 

Appreciate all the help so far!

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Looking at all kills on 6/26, your DS seems really high. You had 783 DS hits compared to only 167 TV hits. Are you using it only when it Procs or against multiple targets? TV is far superior unless you are doing cleave damage (which most mechanics in SoO is single target). 

 

Here are the logs of the ret paladin in my guild. Both logs compare all bosses up to Thok on Heroic. 

 

Yours:

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/i0aa44aqtd3dbvrj/details/17/?enc=kills

Sophakyngs:

http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-hz34f7uil01fzkyl/details/37/?enc=kills

CompareBot!:

http://raidbots.com/comparebot/53b3fcf274254e104f000814

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I have taken a look at the CompareBot results and i'm confused. Numbers on 'Seal of Truth' (Buff tab) cannot be true.

 

Beside that i find the Inq uptime interesting: 75% vs 99% !!!

Divine Crusader procs are nearly even: 184 vs 197

Potion of Mogu Power usage: 5 vs 10

 

The longer i analyse the comparsion the more i wonder. Is that CompareBot realy trustworthy? mellow.png

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I have taken a look at the CompareBot results and i'm confused. Numbers on 'Seal of Truth' (Buff tab) cannot be true.

 

Beside that i find the Inq uptime interesting: 75% vs 99% !!!

Divine Crusader procs are nearly even: 184 vs 197

Potion of Mogu Power usage: 5 vs 10

 

The longer i analyse the comparsion the more i wonder. Is that CompareBot realy trustworthy? mellow.png

Seal of Truth and Inq would both show as low in scenarios that one of them die, or in different strat scenarios (such as Luc going down at a different time during Noru, doing different jobs on Galak, or being away from the logger on Dark Shamans.)  You've gotta be very careful with CompareBot, but it is a very powerful tool.

 

If you did log to WarcraftLogs, I'll do some magic to pull apart CD vs HoW and we can take a real good look at that.  One thing is that Luc might not be HoWing the slimes on Malk, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, just would show a disparity in DPS.

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I have taken a look at the CompareBot results and i'm confused. Numbers on 'Seal of Truth' (Buff tab) cannot be true.

 

Beside that i find the Inq uptime interesting: 75% vs 99% !!!

Divine Crusader procs are nearly even: 184 vs 197

Potion of Mogu Power usage: 5 vs 10

 

The longer i analyse the comparsion the more i wonder. Is that CompareBot realy trustworthy? mellow.png

The Paladin in my guild is, imho, one of the best in the game. He uses every single ability in his toolkit and still pulls unbelievable consistent top 10 world rankings without padding numbers.

 

Even look at the healing he does with Flash of Light and Word of Glory and can still pull the DPS numbers he does. O_o

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Ouch geo I'm hurt sad.png

 

Edit: Also there's no feasible way to compare every player in the world of the same class and spec under the same parameters. Each guild does different strats, and currently, 10m and 25m have drastically different affects on melee. Now I'm not saying Sopha isn't good, he is a great paladin, I've seen his numbers and rankings, but I would easily argue about the title of best paladin. (I'm not claiming it myself) 

Edited by Auriel
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One of the best ;) and that is a very arbitrary number. I only mentioned him because I have played with him for so long and I'm able to attest his performance. I am not docking yours or even LobbyBoy's, I think you guys are great! :D

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One of the best wink.png and that is a very arbitrary number. I only mentioned him because I have played with him for so long and I'm able to attest his performance. I am not docking yours or even LobbyBoy's, I think you guys are great! biggrin.png

 

 

I wasn't suggesting you were :P simply pointing out that a lot of factors will go into how someone ranks. For example, the rank 1 ret on immerseus for 25m has his guild leave the adds for him to kill only. 

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Looking at all kills on 6/26, your DS seems really high. You had 783 DS hits compared to only 167 TV hits. Are you using it only when it Procs or against multiple targets? TV is far superior unless you are doing cleave damage (which most mechanics in SoO is single target). 

 

Here are the logs of the ret paladin in my guild. Both logs compare all bosses up to Thok on Heroic. 

 

Yours:

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/i0aa44aqtd3dbvrj/details/17/?enc=kills

Sophakyngs:

http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-hz34f7uil01fzkyl/details/37/?enc=kills

CompareBot!:

http://raidbots.com/comparebot/53b3fcf274254e104f000814

 

 

I only use my DS when it procs (either singletarget or multiple enemies) or without a proc if 2+ enemies are up, this includes slimes on malkorok and stuff like that when they're pulled into the middle.

So, single target i'm only using DS when it procs, other than that i always use TV on single target, i'm gonna log on warcraflogs myself tomorrow if i don't forget and upload the logs again, because i'm having my doubts about worldoflogs right now with everyone saying i've got low TV damage and low HoW damage while i'm using them the right way (afaik).

 

I have taken a look at the CompareBot results and i'm confused. Numbers on 'Seal of Truth' (Buff tab) cannot be true.

 

Beside that i find the Inq uptime interesting: 75% vs 99% !!!

Divine Crusader procs are nearly even: 184 vs 197

Potion of Mogu Power usage: 5 vs 10

 

The longer i analyse the comparsion the more i wonder. Is that CompareBot realy trustworthy? mellow.png

 

That my inq. uptime is a lot lower isn't a surprise to me, i'm working on that now so it should become a lot higher now (warning 10 sec before i run out of Inq. rather than when it runs out, should've done that a long time ago), 75.6% seems a bit too low though.

It might be because i sat out on a few bosses, that this confused Comparebot somehow else i don't really know how to explain it other than with what Hybrys said.

 

Seal of Truth and Inq would both show as low in scenarios that one of them die, or in different strat scenarios (such as Luc going down at a different time during Noru, doing different jobs on Galak, or being away from the logger on Dark Shamans.)  You've gotta be very careful with CompareBot, but it is a very powerful tool.

 

If you did log to WarcraftLogs, I'll do some magic to pull apart CD vs HoW and we can take a real good look at that.  One thing is that Luc might not be HoWing the slimes on Malk, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, just would show a disparity in DPS.

 

We taunt / pull all slimes into the middle and then just cleave them down, so i´m indeed not using HoW on slimes during Malkorok, using aoe on that one.

 

Anyways, like i said, gonna log on warcraflogs myself tomorrow so a good look can be taken at everything!

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10 seconds is way excessive. You'll end up flitering it out when you get used to it and forgetting completely. 5 seconds would be ideal. 1 second to react, 2 seconds to plan and 3 seconds to refresh.

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Seal of Truth and Inq would both show as low in scenarios that one of them die, or in different strat scenarios (such as Luc going down at a different time during Noru, doing different jobs on Galak, or being away from the logger on Dark Shamans.)  You've gotta be very careful with CompareBot, but it is a very powerful tool.

 

http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-hz34f7uil01fzkyl/details/37/?enc=kills

In the ENTIRE logs 'Seal of Truth' is missing!

 

To say it's not a mistake of CompareBot but of World of Logs.

 

Edit: I'm talking about the buff.

It's curious that 'Seal of Truth' is listed in 'Damage by spell' tab ...

Edited by LobbyBoy

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Oh boy, you make me blush wub.png

 

Edit: Time has come - Gnomeregan gets connected! wink.png

 

 

One of the best wink.png and that is a very arbitrary number. I only mentioned him because I have played with him for so long and I'm able to attest his performance. I am not docking yours or even LobbyBoy's, I think you guys are great! biggrin.png

 

You did it again ... wub.png

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http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-hz34f7uil01fzkyl/details/37/?enc=kills

In the ENTIRE logs 'Seal of Truth' is missing!

 

To say it's not a mistake of CompareBot but of World of Logs.

 

Edit: I'm talking about the buff.

It's curious that 'Seal of Truth' is listed in 'Damage by spell' tab ...

100% uptime shows as not active.  That's because a combat log parser cannot track something that is neither applied nor removed during the encounter.  So that's a limitation on both World of Logs and WarcraftLogs.

 

That's why you don't see something like Stamina's buff uptime on a fight where no-one dies.

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100% uptime shows as not active.  That's because a combat log parser cannot track something that is neither applied nor removed during the encounter.  So that's a limitation on both World of Logs and WarcraftLogs.

 

That's why you don't see something like Stamina's buff uptime on a fight where no-one dies.

 

That's realy good to know. Thanks a lot.

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Here is the log from tonight´s raid, it was a bit of a disaster at some points seeing as one of the 2 main tanks had to quit due to RL issues, so we had a few wipes here and there (backup tank hadn't tanked in a while so had to get the hang of some fights again).

 

Anyways, the log:

http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/m4q2zFJNCGrtbXQ3#source=4&fight=3&type=summary

 

I used DP on Immerseus, Protectors, Norushen, Galakras and Spoils, so these might not be that usefull to look at, but feel free to do so anyways.

All other fights i used SW.

 

Hope this can provide you with a little more information than the previous logs!

Edited by Lucivero

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