New Elemental Shaman need improvement advice

[mlvnk 0]

Hi fellow shamans,

 

Just to give you a bit background - I recently came back to WoW after being coerced by real life friends into picking up the game again. A few of us try to get up to speed with the end game raiding content. We are currently forming second 10man group in our guild and receiving help from group 1 which have down heroic Garrosh 10m. Intention of our raid plan is gearing up group 2 in order to merge with group 1 come expansion. I have been raiding as resto shaman in previous expansions and playing as an elemental shaman is new to me. I feel I have been under performing (especially overshadowed by group 1 performance) and wish guidance on how to improve my game play.

 

There are a few glaring mistake i am aware of especially;

 

1. Clipping flame shock 

 

2. Under utilize ascendance and other cool down (relate to unsure how long the boss will last to squeeze third ascendence - there are a couple of times I tried to do this and end up ascendance on cooldown during BL and suffered damage loss)

 

3. Could do better in fulmination department.

 

Other than that, i hope you fellow experienced shaman out there able to point out what have i done wrong and should improve on.

 

Last night, i logged our Flex 2 run. Please take note there are a few fresh 90s and are doing damage below tank. Group 1 is carrying us through flex2.

 

 

http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/bZHgnX6Q2dTCPwcj#fight=7

 

 

Out of all fights, i realised i did particularly bad in general nazgrim fight. And you can see some of our group 1 DPS are at least twice of my damage and I feel something is very wrong.

 

Below is my armory,

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/barthilas/Druztotem/simple

 

 

Please forgive me for my bad english. Thanks.

Edited July 4, 2014 by mlvnk

[Hybrys 199]

From Iron Jugg:

 

You're not doing bad, with good Flame Shock uptime and Lava Surge reaction time.

 

A couple of things I'd work on:

 

Fulmination.  I can't see the stacks and how many you overlapped (turn on Advanced Combat Logging in WoW in order to show that), but you identify it yourself as a poor spot.  12 over a 5 min fight also seems low.

 

Elemental Blast.  You cast 16 out of 25 possible casts, so you should really be paying more attention to that cooldown.  Remember:  Flame Shock uptime > Lava Burst > Elemental Blast > Fulmination @ 6-7 > Lightning Bolt.

 

Ascendance.  Again, really wasn't bad.  Getting in 3 Ascendances usually means a 6:30+ fight, so you should keep that in mind when you're using Bloodlust later in the fight.  If your kill attempts are usually under 6 minutes, it's safe to hold it for Bloodlust!  Otherwise, it was good.

 

Flame Shock.  Let me show you ticks vs casts:

 

http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/bZHgnX6Q2dTCPwcj#fight=7&type=damage-done&source=15&hostility=&pins=0%24Main%24%23244F4B%24damage%240%240.0.0.Any%24154085450.0.0.Shaman%24true%240.0.0.Any%24false%248050%5E0%24Main%24%23909049%24casts%240%240.0.0.Any%24154085450.0.0.Shaman%24true%240.0.0.Any%24false%248050

 

It's actually not as bad as you may think, only clipping about 3-4 ticks, which isn't a huge deal.  Just remember that you can recast at ~3 seconds remaining, and not lose any ticks.

 

Gearing.  You're doing reasonable damage for your gear level!  Shamans seem to lag behind a little bit early on, especially without the Legendary Meta Gem's delicious Haste procs.  Along with that, your trinkets aren't good for Ele, and you have a lot of excess crit on your gear, so replacing those with same-ilvl but better stats (Haste/Mastery) would see some big gains.

 

I would recommend swapping over to Haste gems until you hit 30%, then swapping back to Mastery gems over that point.  This is because Haste and Mastery are pretty equal, with Haste having the upper hand before you have the Meta, and even afterwards, it lets you feel the faster playstyle that you'll be playing for a while.

 

Along with that, make sure you're enchanting Int on your bracers!  A lot of people fall into the trap of 'I'm gemming secondaries, so I'll enchant secondaries too!'  This isn't really right, because the only reason the gems work out is that there is double the secondary stat available.

 

Check this out for what I would do now, with your gear:

 

http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/gear/bf0d803f-7744-46d5-865d-29c3b028d57c

[mlvnk 0]

Hi Hybrys,

 

thanks for your time and effort to respond. 

 

Fulmination - managing the buff is a lil frustrating. Tend to only realise i have to cast fulmination when i already start casting something and by the end of the cast, the more prioritized spells (lava burst, elemental blast) cooldown is up which shifted the priority. Often lead to missing the whole 'cycle' of the rotation. I hope by practicing more i will be able to overcome this.

 

Elemental blast -  i recalled i often  interrupted elemental blast to dodge something during an encounter and priority shifted to lava burst, delaying my elemental blast. I guess i have to be more aware of positioning and planning the next move way ahead. This, i think is the area i'm currently severely weak due to being not familiar with encounter mechanics. 

 

Flameshock - Ok. i always thought i might have clipped flameshock very often because i don't know the fact that refreshing flameshock at the last 3 second will not lose the last tick. 

 

Gearing - I have re-gemmed for haste/int and currently sitting at 30ish% haste. I am working on the legendary cloak quest and cant wait for the legendary meta gem.

 

Bracer enchant - actually i'm an enchanter myself and close to revered with august celestial faction. So i thought might as well wait for the access.

 

Trinkets - i cant find a good source to gauge the dps contribution of the trinkets available. I'm saving my warforged seals for dark shaman and immersius across all difficulties. So far no luck yet. So i have to make use of what i have now. This however got me thinking. I do have a Time Lost Astifact sitting in my bag. How much do you value the  timeless isle trinket against Yu'lon bite. Former trinket is a flat mastery with haste proc VS flat int with crit proc.  

 

I'll post new log in near future and hope you will see improvement!

[Hybrys 199]

The Timeless Isle trinkets and Yu'lons Bite are the same one. If you can, link the trinkets you're talking about.

Otherwise, I'm looking forward to your next log, and we'll see what you've changed and what needs changing! Good luck!

[nefigah 26]

Oh, I think OP means the time lost artifact rep trinket, it has some mastery on it but its only real point is to port you to the timeless isle. It isn't competitive with other trinkets of its ilvl iirc

[Hybrys 199]

Oh, I think OP means the time lost artifact rep trinket, it has some mastery on it but its only real point is to port you to the timeless isle. It isn't competitive with other trinkets of its ilvl iirc

Oh, I see it.  This one: Time-Lost Artifact.  Unfortunately, it doesn't even proc on spell casts, only for melee or ranged physical attacks, or else it may actually be competitive vs a 496 Yu'lon's Bite.

[mlvnk 0]

What action considered as spell or physical attack is very confusing in this expansion. The way purified binding of immersius and kadris toxis totem trinket description is written lead me to believe it should work on spell. Guess i have to stick with Yulon for now and pray for a better trinket next week

[Hybrys 199]

What action considered as spell or physical attack is very confusing in this expansion. The way purified binding of immersius and kadris toxis totem trinket description is written lead me to believe it should work on spell. Guess i have to stick with Yulon for now and pray for a better trinket next week

Yeah, it can be pretty frustrating sometimes. Usually you can tell, when it says melee or ranged attack it means physical attacks, but that is pretty deceptive itself.

[mlvnk 0]

Hi Hybrys,

 

Good day to you. Based on your advice last week, i made several changes to my enchants and gems. Got an upgrade piece but KTT and PBI are still elusive.

 

http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/gear/89b81d37-e53a-4d8c-aec7-071209ec9567

 

Well i am aware i should be replacing my legging enchant to spirit version. The reason for not doing this is i feel currently my gears will be replaced very frequently and given that too much of spirit rating is always an issue to me i want to wait for the next upgrade (replacing trinkets or 528 gear) ad see how it goes. The legging enchant is a bit expensive to me.

 

I manage to turn on 'advanced combat log' this time and below is the link to my log.

 

http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/bZHgnX6Q2dTCPwcj#fight=7

 

http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/bPH6k8hvcZwqQzfJ

 

The reason for two logs is i am unsure if i turned on adv combatlog during my flex run. If negative then please refer my LFR run.

Edited July 14, 2014 by mlvnk

[Hybrys 199]

You're in a really good place for your gear, I think.  Those trinkets are holding you back pretty harshly.

 

I was asking for Advanced Combat Logging, so that we could take a look at your Fulminations, and see if you missed many stacks.  This is your LFR Malkorok:

 

http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/bPH6k8hvcZwqQzfJ#type=resources&fight=4&source=35&spell=150

 

Which honestly looks really good in that regard, so I think you're doing pretty well with that.  You're always going to miss some, so missing 13 out of 93 procs (or 14%) really isn't that bad.

 

Your opener still seems a little bit weak (although it would be difficult to get a proper opener in LFR), and you're still missing Elemental Blast opportunities (with 21 out of 26 possible), but beyond those minor issues, you're in a great position.

 

I thought I mentioned this before, but this is the optimal opener:

 

Fire Ele + Pre Pot @ 3 seconds before pull --> Elemental Blast @ 1.5 (or 1) seconds before pull --> Flame Shock --> Lava Burst --> Ascendance --> Lava Burst spam.

 

Try to implement that where you can.  The precasting adds a lot to your opener, as it's basically free damage.

 

 

For Thok, it's a pretty difficult fight for us to do much of anything.  Even in my high end parses, I follow a pretty tight rule.  Once it gets to 10 stacks of Acceleration, I only cast once per Shout, starting right after the last shout lands.  If I have spare time or I get locked out, I use whichever Shock / Totem I can.

 

Some people swear by using Primal Elementalist (PE) or Unleashed Fury (UF) for Thok, because it removes a cast time damage spell, and shifts that damage elsewhere.  Either of those may be a good choice, especially while you're getting used to the fight.

[mlvnk 0]

Appreciated your quick response, thanks.
Yea, after your advice regarding fulmination I learned to release fulmination at 5 stacks if my flameshock dot is going to be expire within 5 sec. Took me some practicing on dummy and glad it worked out OK.

Regarding the opener - yea actually it make sense to burn cooldown under elemental blast proc duration. I never thought of that and thanks for the tips.

 

Noted the tips for Thok. I'll try elemental primalist and compare the result.

I have a few questions;

1. Often I found there are circumstances where my flameshock is on cooldown (3 sec off cooldown), target has no flameshock dot and I have lava burst and elemental blast ready. This tend to happen in fights such as Garrosh, Pride, Norushen, protrector. Do I cast elemental blast first while waiting for flameshock cooldown (3 sec off cooldown) or cast lava burst without flameshock dot. If strictly based on priority given, I should be casting lava burst regardless of flameshock presence but sometime during the heat of the battle, I chose elemental blast out of my instinct instead of waiting for flameshock or casting lava burst. Guide does not make specific mention if this is a special case with different rule to priority. If this is not a good practice, i'll like to correct this before it become a habit.

 

2. is it worth to delay and align my ascendance with trinket proc? I found a way to show trinket internal cooldown via tellmewhen add on and curious if this strategy is feasible or worth the gain at the expense of losing 3rd ascendace if fight is 7min.

3. is it wrong to generate BiS list based on the stat weight given by you last week? or should it only be used as a reference for regem/enchanting based on the loot I get. Reason asking is I generated bis list from the stats lead to confusing result (not in line with what people simulated).

Edited July 14, 2014 by mlvnk

[SparkSovereign 61]

Appreciated your quick response, thanks.

Yea, after your advice regarding fulmination I learned to release fulmination at 5 stacks if my flameshock dot is going to be expire within 5 sec. Took me some practicing on dummy and glad it worked out OK.

Regarding the opener - yea actually it make sense to burn cooldown under elemental blast proc duration. I never thought of that and thanks for the tips.

 

Noted the tips for Thok. I'll try elemental primalist and compare the result.

I have a few questions;

1. Often I found there are circumstances where my flameshock is on cooldown (3 sec off cooldown), target has no flameshock dot and I have lava burst and elemental blast ready. This tend to happen in fights such as Garrosh, Pride, Norushen, protrector. Do I cast elemental blast first while waiting for flameshock cooldown (3 sec off cooldown) or cast lava burst without flameshock dot. If strictly based on priority given, I should be casting lava burst regardless of flameshock presence but sometime during the heat of the battle, I chose elemental blast out of my instinct instead of waiting for flameshock or casting lava burst. Guide does not make specific mention if this is a special case with different rule to priority. If this is not a good practice, i'll like to correct this before it become a habit.

 

2. is it worth to delay and align my ascendance with trinket proc? I found a way to show trinket internal cooldown via tellmewhen add on and curious if this strategy is feasible or worth the gain at the expense of losing 3rd ascendace if fight is 7min.

3. is it wrong to generate BiS list based on the stat weight given by you last week? or should it only be used as a reference for regem/enchanting based on the loot I get. Reason asking is I generated bis list from the stats lead to confusing result (not in line with what people simulated).

 

1 - I would cast Elemental Blast, re-apply flameshock, and then cast Lava Burst.  The primary reason Lava Burst is at the absolute top of the priority is because Lava Surge procs overwrite each other; if Flame Shock is not active, this is not a concern.  Personally I tend to err on the side of caution with flame shock so as to avoid this situation entirely.

 

2 - Don't risk losing an Ascendance cast.  If you're sure the fight is 7 minutes (Norushen for example) figure out how much you can wait without losing a cast, and don't wait any longer than that.

 

3 - If you really want to get into the thick of figuring out "BiS", I recommend generating your own weights using simcraft.  It's actually a pretty straightforward tool to use, even if it looks a little intimidating.  I would not be overly concerned with "BiS" though; get upgrades of any form for now.

[Hybrys 199]

Yeah, the weights that I set you up with wouldn't last into a situation where you have a lot more Mastery, as EB has that mastery soft cap of 88.4% - PBoI amplifications.

 

You can check out what I'd use for BiS though, here.  Just hit Best in Slot to see.

 

EB:

http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/gear/3360ee69-66e2-46b8-8e06-b6de533480fd

 

UF:

http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/gear/91b4d764-768c-42fa-89f4-8cea643a3c46

 

Beyond that, I agree with Spark on 1 and 2.  For Ascendance, in my play, I usually totally ignore my trinkets and instead watch for a Legendary Meta Gem proc and use it with that.