Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
Malvorra

Resto Shaman, Heroic Progression Trouble

15 posts in this topic

I was  Normal progression geared and at the top of the charts with 200k or more hps and I started Heroic progression and got a few Heroic pieces. After this change in gear, my hps seemed to keep going down.. to the point I am struggling to keep my hps at 100k...  I'm not healing any different, what exactly AM I doing wrong... I went to icyveins and used mr. robot and plugged in my own stat weights using the heroic recomended stat weights from your own forums :

 

 

Intellect - 1

Spell Power - 0.75

Spirit (to 10500) - 0.65

Haste (to 8882) - 0.6

Crit - 0.55

Mastery - 0.4

 
 
 
 however, I thought the haste was to low because the caste time on chain heal was at 2.0 sec and I wanted it at 1.5 so I upped my haste a bit ...  below are links to my toon and the logs you request.. lease advise.. 
 
 
 
 
 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

First thing first, don't bother looking into hps meter, your task is to keep people topped. Whatever shows on meter doesn't matter as long as you're successful at what you do.
With that said, in current setting you should follow the ABC rule. In hcs on many fights if someone is not above 70% he's in an immediate danger of being instagibed (excluding tanks), either due to his unawareness or just RNG.

Now, gearwise.
Find some other trinket instead of Nazgrim's. It's just awful.
Reduce the amount of spirit you have, 18k is way above what you need. Move the excess spirit into crit.
Don't use the 4set, it doesn't contribute a lot. Resto tier itemization is not so good as well. Basically you want to use gloves and head or gloves and shoulder in case you can get the haste from other sources like Blackfuse staff (Nazgrim's head is just too good to give up lightly).
Haste. In 10man I think ~9.1k (depends on latency) breakpoint along with AS is great and should be reached. Going higher is not bad, but it doesn't contribute as much as stacking more crit. Furthermore it strains your mana if you stick to ABC. One thing to understand is that you don't really need such fast CH cast, just needs to be fast enough to place it in between Thok screeches and that's all. 9.1k haste with AS provides that.

Tallents & glyphs.
In 10man consider base-lining glyph of chaining. Except on several selected fights it's always needed.
Glyph of totemic recall should be present on most fights as well. That thing easily worth a few Ks of spirit.
EM is ok, but really can't compete with AS. EM offers you a better burst, but thing about resto shaman is that you have enough burst to handle all damage without the extra 30% haste. AS on the other hand makes it easier to reach the HST breakpoint that provides more spread AOE healing which shamans lack. Moreover, instant GHW for emergencies or HR during Ascendance is very good.
Conductivity, loose it. It's just a mana preserving talent. Nothing else.
UF is good on Shamans HC and Malk HC, otherwise stay with PE. Truth be told, I didn't look too much into your logs, but I did notice one thing. You don't use single target heals, hence this talent is wasted.
You use RT glyph. I think it's a great glyph, but if you use it, then make sure you have about 100% uptime on RT. Which you currently don't.

Overall. As resto shaman you're not just a CH bot, you have plenty of tools to deal with many situations. Use them.
Spamming CH is probably enough for normals, but on hc you have to be more diverse.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Couple of things:

 

Yes, you should definitely have significantly less spirit than 18k.  Spirit is not a healers stat, it's a healers crutch.  Moving every single spirit gem into a Crit gem (Int/Crit, pure Crit, Spirit/Crit) would make a huge difference to your throughput, and it would be hard to notice the change in regen.

 

Conductivity is a really poor talent, especially in 10m where you cannot guarantee 6 people are in your Healing Rain at all times.  I'd HIGHLY suggest going High Tides, and you'll watch your Healing Stream become one of your highest heals.  Keep it down as much as possible, and you'll skyrocket.

 

Unleashed Fury is also a pretty poor talent for Resto.  Although it does have some benefit, it unfortunately only counts a SINGLE spell.  Because of that, and the fact that you should be Unleashing before every Healing Rain, it's not very valuable.  I prefer Primal Elementalist, as I can help a DPS burst phase with my Fire Ele, and have a little extra healing with my Earth Ele (which becomes very powerful combined with Healing Tide Totem.)

 

While I don't think using the Riptide glyph means you have to have 100% uptime, I do think it's very powerful and you should be using it more often.  Riptide blankets are good for those fights were everyone is consistently taking a little bit of damage, such as Sha of Pride (Heroic) or Malkorok (Both).  Definitely consider using it more.  Although you logged LFR, and it's a poor place to compare things, you only used Riptide 28 times over 11 and a half minutes, and that's drastically low.

 

Definitely too much Chain Heal spam.  It's not very efficient, and you're going to end up with it at 50%+ overhealing all the time, if that's all you cast.  Replace it with the occasional Greater Healing Wave or Healing Surge if you can only hit 2 targets w/ a Chain Heal.  This may be where your monster Spirit plays in, because you're not using intelligent spell selection and are instead dumping mana.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for Both of your replys. Read thru both carefully, took your advice, changed out spirit for crit gems, reforged some. Also, changed elemental mastery to ancestral swiftness and unleashed fury to primal elementalist. Then I ran flex 4 and flex 1 (the only SoO I had left to run this week) below are the logs...   

 

(I also tried hard to make sure I was using more healing waves, healing surges, ect to cut down on overheals...=  )    )

 

 

Please advise...

 

 

http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/hfKXLbpjW7Z3gw8B/

 

 

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/feathermoon/Malfuriia/simple

 

 

thanks!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You sure that's the right log?  I see a lot of Chain Heals.

 

To clarify, you can also ignore Healing Wave, and just use Greater Healing Wave.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Look at the Immerseus fight... no one said it was going ot be perfect at first, I said I was trying to use more..  *grins*

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Look at the Immerseus fight... no one said it was going ot be perfect at first, I said I was trying to use more..  *grins*

I gotcha!

 

That looks great.  That's a lot of Healing Surges, and look at how much effective healing they do vs Chain Heal.  2.5x the healing from only 8 more casts.  I would also spend a lot more time using Riptide instead of Healing Surge, as blanketting those is also a very effective strategy.

 

It's all about balance, and picking the right spell for the right job.  Is my ally at risk to die in the next 2 seconds?  Healing Surge or Greater Healing Wave.  Is my ally going to take slow consistent damage over the next 15 seconds?  Riptide.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A couple members of my regular raid and I pugged (OQ ed)  a few nornal fights and a garraosh kill for the end of the week on normal. as you can see from the logs the garrosh kill took some time, however I wanted you to take a look and see if the numbers are coming up enough..  They seemed better  but I'd like to see higher. I did get thok's trinket as well to replace nazgrim's 

 

 

http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/2t6RDPTXc87vY3dp/

 

 

 
 
 
thanks for your time!!   =  )

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Your spirit is still too high. A good rule of thumb is to never go above 13k. If you recall magma totems then 10k is all you need even for very mana intensive fights. Also, don't forget you have MTT, and it's a good practice to use it on cd from the moment you reach 80% mana.

 

Haste outside of breakpoints is not that important for you as well. And 6.1k it doesn't provide you with anything meaningful. Lowest haste that you should aim for is 7116 (goblin) for the HR breakpoint. While ~8800 is highly desirable (again, goblin).

 

Thok's trinket is situationally great (it provides massive amounts of healing when raid is stacked), but optimally you should also get Blackfuse's and swap them on a per fight basis.

 

Fire ele glyph is really not needed anywhere. Replace it with something more useful.

Cleansing waters glyph is kind of meh, use it only if you have nothing else to use.

 

Speccing into PE is great, but make sure you use your elementals! Otherwise this tallent is wasted. Earth ele should always be used in conjunction with reinforce, while for fire it depends on what you need more. If it's damage then just let it auto attack, if it's healing then empower. On Blackfuse and Spoils you haven't used them at all sad.png

 

You don't cast healing rain enough. I really can't stress enough how much it's important to keep HR down at all times. With some very rough rounding you should cast it once every ~14s. Which means 4 casts per minute. On Blackfuse you casted it only 4 times in a 4.5 minute fight!

 

Use glyph of chaining on most fights in 10man. It's practically mandatory.

Edited by lynx

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Your spirit is still too high. A good rule of thumb is to never go above 13k. If you recall magma totems then 10k is all you need even for very mana intensive fights. Also, don't forget you have MTT, and it's a good practice to use it on cd from the moment you reach 80% mana.

 

Haste outside of breakpoints is not that important for you as well. And 6.1k it doesn't provide you with anything meaningful. Lowest haste that you should aim for is 7116 (goblin) for the HR breakpoint. While ~8800 is highly desirable (again, goblin).

 

Thok's trinket is situationally great (it provides massive amounts of healing when raid is stacked), but optimally you should also get Blackfuse's and swap them on a per fight basis.

 

Fire ele glyph is really not needed anywhere. Replace it with something more useful.

Cleansing waters glyph is kind of meh, use it only if you have nothing else to use.

 

Speccing into PE is great, but make sure you use your elementals! Otherwise this tallent is wasted. Earth ele should always be used in conjunction with reinforce, while for fire it depends on what you need more. If it's damage then just let it auto attack, if it's healing then empower. On Blackfuse and Spoils you haven't used them at all sad.png

 

You don't cast healing rain enough. I really can't stress enough how much it's important to keep HR down at all times. With some very rough rounding you should cast it once every ~14s. Which means 4 casts per minute. On Blackfuse you casted it only 4 times in a 4.5 minute fight!

 

Use glyph of chaining on most fights in 10man. It's practically mandatory.

Wow, lots I don't agree with here.

 

If you're playing the Magma Recall game, you should be around 8k spirit.  I prefer 10.5k with a Crit build, and no recalling.  Spirit is also a comfort thing, though I don't think anyone should be playing about 13k unless they're a 25m mana battery.

 

Healing Rain isn't actually that important in 10m.  It can often not be worth it at all, if you don't have 3-5 people in the Healing Rain for the majority of it's uptime.  Blackfuse is especially one of those fights where there may only be 2-3 people in a Healing Rain at any given time!

 

Glyph of Chaining isn't mandatory at all, and a lot of people don't use it for fights like Noru/Sha/IJ/Thok/Spoils/Garrosh, because you don't need the extra distance.  It's an unnecessary cap on a lot of fights, and could be completely ignored with good strategy and gameplay.

 

 

@Mal

 

I'd still like to see you drop more spirit, and move more of your healing from Chain Heal to Riptide blankets.  Garrosh is a good fight where, if you see it far enough ahead, spreading Riptides before a Whirl, THEN Chain Healing during a Whirl would be very effective compared to just spamming Chain Heal.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The 13k (and 10k respectively) figure was kind of an upper limit. Of course you should strive to work with less if you can move the excess spirit into crit or reach another important haste breakpoint.

I consider HR of paramount importance because for an aware DPS it's kind of a safe haven, "if you stand here you don't die". And I disagree on blackfuse, when that magnet pulsates and saws are flying around interupting your casts, besides your totems, healing rain is your most reliable heal. Or even on Juggernaut where people should never stack (unless you do the range tactic), healing rain should be down either for melee or as a beacon for ranged that if you're hurt run to here.

Practically no idea on how to do IJ without chaining. Especially if you don't do ranged tactic or two healing. Spoils also sounds a little weird, but I guess with some specific coordination and staying close to melee it can be viable.

There are fights on which this glyph is bad (Galakras and Thok). On some others it just doesn't add a lot (Norushen, Sha, split Shamans, Garrosh). But that's 5-6 out of 14, with only 2 on which it's clearly not good. On every other fight I concider this glyph so important that I wouldn't ever swap it even in 25man.

Edited by lynx

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The 13k (and 10k respectively) figure was kind of an upper limit. Of course you should strive to work with less if you can move the excess spirit into crit or reach another important haste breakpoint.

I consider HR of paramount importance because for an aware DPS it's kind of a safe haven, "if you stand here you don't die". And I disagree on blackfuse, when that magnet pulsates and saws are flying around interupting your casts, besides your totems, healing rain is your most reliable heal. Or even on Juggernaut where people should never stack (unless you do the range tactic), healing rain should be down either for melee or as a beacon for ranged that if you're hurt run to here.

Practically no idea on how to do IJ without chaining. Especially if you don't do ranged tactic or two healing. Spoils also sounds a little weird, but I guess with some specific coordination and staying close to melee it can be viable.

There are fights on which this glyph is bad (Galakras and Thok). On some others it just doesn't add a lot (Norushen, Sha, split Shamans, Garrosh). But that's 5-6 out of 14, with only 2 on which it's clearly not good. On every other fight I concider this glyph so important that I wouldn't ever swap it even in 25man.

If it's just your 'beacon of safety', HR isn't doing much, and won't do much over it's duration.

 

Blackfuse's Magnets + Saws shouldn't be an issue, with good raid awareness.  Even as a DPS, I think I only get interrupted once a week, if at all.  Same is true for our heals.  With the push/pull, I'd put even less value in ground effects like Efflo and Healing Rain.

 

We do IJ with a small area stack.  I can safely CH 3 people reliably, and this is the strat I've done in 4 or 5 different guilds, 10 and 25m.  I find a lot more value in 3 Riptides than I would Unleash+Healing Raining with only 2 people standing in it.

 

I wouldn't use the glyph on: Protectors (with an intelligent stack), Noru, Sha, Galakras, IJ, Shamans, Malkorok (no value in CH except on the melee, even with double gain distance, atleast in my opinion), Spoils (I've always used a center stack method.  Tanks bring the large mobs to the middle so the sparks get cleaved down), Thok, Blackfuse, and Garrosh.

 

That leaves 3 fights that I think it could have value.  And Paragons is VERY debatable, as you'd only need the extra chain range for after Hisek dies, and until Iyyokuk dies.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I did do better when i went to raid last, I did an avg. of 130hps or so, until we started on heroic Sha. then my hps went down to under 100 hps again. 

 

My raid lead seems to think its heals job to dispel, heal, close rifts, get people out of jail, and run to spots where we can give the buff to the whole raid, all while making sure we are out of stuff on the floor and watching everyone.. 

 

It's my contention that heals doesn't do DPS's jobs (ie close rifts , unless they are right next to them, or worry about the people in jail except to heal them) 

 

Anyway, I got kicked from raid for low heals even tho they knew I was working with you to help my heals and was working on it .. so I suppose I wont need help now  but thanks anyway for the info... 

 

Everyone says not to worry about your hps but thats what people look at in the groups, I got kicked from a flex for my hps when i was actually healing MORE than the other healers, just looked worse because of hps, their heals hit faster.. mine where actually healing people .... *sigh*   you just cant win 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A few things.

Who on earth measures HPS on Sha? During the first part almost all damage happens in short bursts. During the second part you need to ramp up your healing, but still it's contained in bursts, they're just more frequent.

However, your job is to heal, close rifts, stack for buff and get people out of jail. No one said that healing is easier than dps'ing wink.png Healers do perform mechanics. Not everything but I'd say at least 90% of them.

If your RL worries about your hps on fights like Sha then I think it's a good thing you're no longer there.

Where your raw hps really matters when not solo healing? Norushen (sometimes), p2 of Galakras, IJ, Harom tanks healing (or when stacked), Malkorok (especially when dps make mistakes), if dps fails on sparks Spoils, and lastly (the most important) Thok.

Still, if you want to prove you're a good healer the best way to do it is to solo heal fights on normal, or if you can then on hc (but it's really a lot harder). If you're not sure you can do it, start with flex solo healing.

Edited by lynx

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey there! I would have replied sooner, but I've been on hiatus for a while. There are a few things that I agree with and a few that I don't.

 

Nazgrim's trinket is fine. It's not great, but it's fine if you can't get anything else. Thok's tooth is better in 25s and on some more clustered fights, but I'm not convinced there's a "right answer" with trinkets for all of progression.

 

I agree that you have wayyyy too much Spirit, but I don't agree on the numbers which my fellow advisers have quoted. I'm running 11k Spirit now and I use the Recall Magma Totem strategy; on fights like Heroic Iron Juggernaut (not progress), I still finish with uncomfortably low mana. On other fights, I finish with too much. Ultimately, what Spirit level is best depends upon what fights you have the most trouble with and how your mana situation is there. If I wasn't 2-healing HC IJ and HC Malkorok then I'd take 10k Spirit.

 

The bottom line is; don't let anyone prescribe a Spirit level for you; ABOUT 10k and ABOUT 13k are good guidelines, but if you feel like you'd be better off with ~1k more or less, go for it.

 

Healing Surge is a legit tactic on Immersius to heal the blobs up fast. I prefer it to Greater Healing Wave, because it's more forgiving. Otherwise, I wouldn't use Healing Surge unless it's a dire emergency.

 

I'm glad to hear you're improving, keep coming back! happy.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.