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Lotrix

Tier 3 talents for holy

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Im trying to figure out on witch fights Selfless Healer will do better. At the moment I use Eternal Flame but on for example Thok I did not use it as much.

Eternal Flame is most of time ( on fights where I use it a lot ) top or 2nd best of my total healing done. But also its most of my overhaling done. And I think Selfless Healer can give me more "effective" hps if used correctly. LoD overheal for me is always (compared to other overhaling spels) close to 0 And I often swap glyph for it.

I would like to know if you use Selfless Healer, when and why.

 

edit: If you use Eternal Flame 24/7 I would like to know why too. And do you always cast it on 3 HP?

Edited by Lotrix

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I used to always use Eternal Flame, but I believe it's playstyle has been reduced to keeping the EFs on tanks and anyone expected to take a fair amount of damage, from say a dot or constant AoE. I've since swapped to selfless healer for all fights, though malkorok is a fight that I stay EF since tank healing is what matters for my group.

I haven't had to heal in a few months now, but I feel this is all accurate and hasn't changed lately

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I agree with Fouton, Selfless healer has taken the lead, however both talents are very strong. It really comes down to your group makeup. If you raid with classes that have a lot of absorbs, selfless healer would be a better fit since the initial heals/throughput are stronger. If you raid with, say, another paladin or shaman.. EF wouldn't be a bad choice.

 

It really is a fight to fight assessment and I believe a strong Holy Paladin needs to knows how to play both talent choices well. 

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edit: If you use Eternal Flame 24/7 I would like to know why too. And do you always cast it on 3 HP?

Healing is very dynamic and needs a lot of critical thinking. Situations come up where you may need to change your style on the fly. Short answer.. No, you should not always cast EF with 3 HP. While it does give the most healing, you may be in a situation where it will be mostly overhealing, at which point it may be better to cast it with <3.

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I used Selfless Healer a lot before I got decent level of spirit. I love to explore and master game mechanics so im going to pick the one witch suits encounter better ( like prism and hammer ). Need a lot more experience in paladin healing still but I don't have problem to keep raid alive and menage my CD .

I recently swap to test EF and I just feel its almost useless on some fights and it looks like HPS loss. I still like it here and there but for sure not all the time.

I think I read somewhere "Always cast EF with 3 HP"... I could be in IcyVeins guide just want to clear that weird felling.

Do you know any boss that Selfless Healer is the way to go? From my experience its Norushen, Sha, Iron Jag + LoD glyph, Sigecrafter, Garrosh. I have only 3 week experience so I would love to know how you guys do it.

Edited by Lotrix

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Honestly, I use SH on every fight except Malk. I just love the play style of Selfless Healer.

 

The guide does say always cast EF with 3 HP because that's how you maximize the most healing. But like most things with healing, it's always subjective. 

 

EF used to be extremely OP when it refreshed mastery and was the clear choice up until 5.4.

 

I love talking about Holy Paladin healing and can go on forever about it.

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Which would you use for proving grounds? I'm tempted to say SH due to spirit being such a limiter at low gear levels.

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Which would you use for proving grounds? I'm tempted to say SH due to spirit being such a limiter at low gear levels.

I use EF to get gold. It work just fine hot help me there a lot. Also i go for Spirit>mastery=haste for it. If you struggle to do it than you need to menage all CDs you have. When i learn where are all my cds and best way to use them it went smoothly. 

 

I love talking about Holy Paladin healing and can go on forever about it.

Do you use Holy Light? I kinda forgot it exist and replaced it and Divine Light by Radiance. Even if it will hit only 1 player. It depends if he is going to die soon or not ^^

Edited by Lotrix

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Do you use Holy Light? I kinda forgot it exist and replaced it and Divine Light by Radiance. Even if it will hit only 1 player. It depends if he is going to die soon or not ^^

Yup, I use all my spells on every fight. Holy Light is a very good heal to use on the off-tank/raid during 0-low tank damage. Since it has a 100% transfer, it's great to use to build up mastery while still putting out a little bit of healing on the tanks. 

 

I'm not sure what you meant by "Divine Light by Radiance". Both spells are completely different. Holy Radiance is your AoE heal that generates HP. Divine Light is your big single target heal that only builds HP if used on the Beacon. 

 

If a player is about to die I either:

  • A) See if I can use Word of Glory on them (Hopefully I have some HP saved up) 
  • B) Holy Shock (Then it should give me enough time to cast a Divine Light on them)
  • C) Flash of Light (then hopefully my HS is off CD and I can use that followed by a 1 HP Word of Glory)
  • D) Lay on Hands
  • E) Very situational I'll either BoP or Hand of Sacrifice them. But it depends on what the circumstances are because they could still die if I don't heal them.
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Yup, I use all my spells on every fight. Holy Light is a very good heal to use on the off-tank/raid during 0-low tank damage. Since it has a 100% transfer, it's great to use to build up mastery while still putting out a little bit of healing on the tanks. 

 

I'm not sure what you meant by "Divine Light by Radiance". Both spells are completely different. Holy Radiance is your AoE heal that generates HP. Divine Light is your big single target heal that only builds HP if used on the Beacon. 

 

If a player is about to die I either:

  • A) See if I can use Word of Glory on them (Hopefully I have some HP saved up) 
  • cool.png Holy Shock (Then it should give me enough time to cast a Divine Light on them)
  • C) Flash of Light (then hopefully my HS is off CD and I can use that followed by a 1 HP Word of Glory)
  • D) Lay on Hands
  • E) Very situational I'll either BoP or Hand of Sacrifice them. But it depends on what the circumstances are because they could still die if I don't heal them.

 

"By Radiance" i mean i do not use anything else 90 % of time with EF talent. I know all spels have their use but i like to cast Radiance on off tank to get more HP. I use Holy Light only if im low on mana what do not happen often anymore. 

Divine Light mostly if my Holy Shock crit and it will not overheal.

 

Nice priority list for emergency heal ^^ 

 

And i like how point B turn in to cool.png  next to Holy Shock ^^

 

Do you use glyph for Beacon? If yes do you use it often or only for special situations? 

Edited by Lotrix
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Are you in a 25 or 10m setting? I recently switched to 10m about 3 months ago and realize Divine Light has taken a priority of Holy Radiance. I just find that I don't usually maximize the benefit of the splash heal that Holy Radiance does since we usually run with 3-4 melee tops including the tanks.

 

No, I do not use glyph of Beacon ever. I just think there are other glyphs out there that are better. 

 

I always use Glyph of Hand of Sacrifice, Protector of the Innocent, Divinity or Blinding Light. But Glyphs are all preference.

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I had a bit of fun and created a diagram of how I heal with EF:

 

KpuIJAp.jpg

 

This is just how I heal with EF, though it truly is dependent on what your situation is. You gotta know what counts as AoE damage, targeted damage or no damage for the right side to be effective, and the left has some decision making about capping HP vs what really counts as EF running out. Not to mention none of this has CDs, T6 talent, etc.

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Awesome diagram Fouton ^^ I would like to see that in "front page guide" i also think those guides should get a major update for more experienced players. 

 

I got did flex only up until last week. At 545 ilvl my raid leader said i can go in HM on my paladin for 2 boss than ill join normal alt run. Our main healers are ~580 so i did not feel any "stress". And still i learn alot there. 

Immersus HC i actually cast a lot of Divine Light. But on everything else I like to get an extra holy power and cast more 1-2HP Eternal Flames. 

I play healer 1st time in this expansion but in past i always look on overhealing. I like to keep it as low as possible ( some situations or encounters require to have alot of it but i still play to get most effective HPS ). Thats why i like Radiance+1HP more than overheal from Divine Light ( depends if ill snipe it with full benefit). I try to use best suited heal every GCD but most of time i end casting Radiance. Maybe when ill get more experience or ilvl Divine Light will jump up on priority list. Healing is a reaction to situation work. For now Radiance is my Teddy Bear toy.

 

edit: I also put Holy Shock almost on top for most situations, with my Radiance use i have some nice number from a Daybreak.

 

edit2: I am not sure if there is any "the best" spell priority but i analyze what i did and if result of it is acceptable for situation. 

 

edit3...: Also can you comment on Glyph of Light of Dawn. I find it quite interesting.

Edited by Lotrix

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I think that diagram is nowhere near perfected so I wouldn't list it. For example, it doesn't have me ever using Divine Light of Flash of Light on a raid member, because it doesn't track how fast they're dying. It doesn't account for heavy AoE damage meaning you should single target heal that 1 person who's almost dead because they're really the only one at risk of dying between your next spell cast, etc. It's all very subjective and tough to cover, and I'm also not the best at a holy paladin.

 

As for glyphs, EF has different glyphs imo. I use Glyph of Beacon of Light so that I can move it to whatever tank is getting a Divine Light/Flash of Light. Every Holy Power that you can get for free is necessary in an EF build, and I also like to use it on common taunt swap fights. I also have Glyph of Sac and Protector of the Innocent. Scrolling through the list of glyphs, I honestly don't see anything else even worth looking at. Glyphed Light of Dawn is good in 5mans, but in 10/25 you aren't wasting a hit at all. 10man you'll find it to be still useful since you will be getting 4/10 people for a stronger heal, which usually is what is needed. Often times there will be 4 fairly injured people on 10 rather than 6, so it will become more valuable.

 

Glyphs to never remove:

Hand of Sac (unless your guild is doubling up on sacs on malk and you've been selected to do the non-glyphed ones)

 

Glyphs I'd switch between dependent on situation:

Beacon of Light

Light of Dawn (10 usually on, 25 usually off)

Protector of the Innocent (fairly boring, especially if you use EF to roll on yourself for the bonus healing)

 

I've seen a fair amount of paladins using Divine Plea, but in my opinion it is just a negative glyph. The only thing the glyph does is requires you to find twice as many times to use it just to get the same mana back. Often times you'll find the downtime you need to use this, and if it brings you over 100%, I doubt you'll hit 0 before you find the next downtime.

 

Divine Protection and Blinding Light are situational, Blinding Light being only for add fights (aren't many that it'll matter), and Divine Prot is really only helpful if you were going to die by something, but other glyphs might keep you alive better.

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I would like thank you for your reply. Love to have this conversation. 

 

Divine Plea glyph looks like another GCD nothing interesting here indeed.

Glyph of Sacrifice is my core one. Mainly because there is nothing better. For me the "sacrifice" part of this ability should be removed ^^ but how to name that spell than? 

Other glyphs do not feel any important impact. Maby only Beacon if i pay attention to cast it split second before big heal. I still have a lot more to care about to use that as freely and effective as i would like.

Protector of the Innocent... never consider this yet mostly because i keep my self alive nicely and i find other glyphs more suited.

This one do not matter much but i dont like Falling Avenger >< it stuck me in air few times when i had to fast spam heals ^^

 

I have only 1 set item should i aim for 4pc? I think its not a big deal thought i may be wrong. 

And i find my self to almost never use Divine Favor. Does set bonus change it to something THAT more useful than haste bonus? More haste = more mana spend in short time. Remember only use it on Proving grounds to get gold and Sigecrafter when Missiles and Magnet are at the same time.. I ignore the fact it gains crit too because its random. Beside that I use it only to spam Holy Light but again I like Radiance more ( if mana is ok )  so i end up stacking it with wings or never use it. 

 

Also little question about stats. I go spirit>haste>mastery It puts me on 18k spirit and 30% haste with Seal. I have alot better time than spirit>mastery>haste. My gems are mostly blue or hybrid blue with spirit. I think ill stay this way for now. Did you test any crazy reforges/gems?

New items hope to come soon so ill gain more mastery and ill play with it again. Just cant get image of 40% haste from my head. 

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The 4 piece if amazing. Divine Favor is one of the best CD's we have. You should aim to use it frequently because of the boost it gives to your overall healing.

 

18k spirit may be high, but it's whatever is comfortable. While I may be big at min/maxing, another person may appreciate just getting the job done. Both are fine and it really is what feels best for you. If you ever find yourself with plenty of mana and want to up your game and steal HPS from other healers.. you may look into dropping spirit and adding mastery ;)

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Yes it all come to experience ^^ the better feel of character ill have the better decisions ill make. 

I try to cooperate with other healers thats why i set my addon to show hots and absorbs to avoid overheal or healing the same target. But for sure some day my gear will allow me to have fun and all hps will be mine! ^,..,^

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My healing partner is Gwenymph and he's one of the best priests in the game. He and I have tons of fun competing against each other. It got to the point where we would argue over who had higher HPS. After that we decided to have a compromise and "let each other" heal certain fights to see who could do better.

 

While healing is rewarding on keeping the raid alive, right now blizzard has made healing a role where at the beginning its hard but towards the end it's easy. They're going to make next expansion more linear and make healing "difficult" regardless of having good gear or not. I can't wait.

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On hit of expansion mana is always an issue.  And people who take avoidable dmg... Difference between casual and "pro" is enormous. Its amazing how much more i enjoy game after learning to control my character to its potential capability. And most important team up with people who play as good as me. 

 

I hope they will fix this nonsense that LFR is right now. I never enter more brain dead environment than this. It hurt me when i see people get hit by multiple Bursting Pride and no one open prisons=someone just died ( yea i die in prison good few times and my corpse got a kill ) on Sha of Pride and still did not wiped... Im not sure how many players only do LFR but they never experience how fun game can be when its difficult and require alot of focus rather than classic faceroll. Someone designed all that fire to move out of it god dammit! :3

I really do not understand why Thok chomp do not 1shot on LFR.

 

The direction WoD go now puts a smile on my face. I hope they will force people even the most lazy and bad ones to do mechanics or they will die over and over and over again until they discover their character can do so much more.

 

Sorry this got out of control. But when i think about WoD...  im so excited and i just cant hide it. And i know i know i know i want you.  ^,..,^

Edited by Lotrix

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