[Archived] Windwalker Monk 5.4

[Bearhands 0]

So ive been trying out the new ascension talent and i think its really viable maybe even the best choise now with no need to stack TP . The energy regen is gr8 whats the math on it though anyone .

I ran my WW monk through Simulation Craft and found that Ascension was about a 1-2k DPS gain (about 1.5%). This was on a HelterSkelter fight setting with play skill set to Good. I'm guessing the viability will depend on optimum use of Energizing Brew so you don't ever cap your energy. I haven't tested this in-game yet.

[Guest Luttinger]

For the T3 talent, I think Ascension is the best because the Power Strikes give u 3 chi per minute, Chi Brew gives u 2.67chi per minute, But Ascension makes u regenrate 10*60*0.15=90 energy, using which u can cast jab*2.25 and get 4.5 chi from it, which is much better than the other 2 talents. Did I make mistake?

The T4 talent Deadly Reach, u can cast onto mob same lvl as u without getting into combat, I think it is pretty useful

[Guest Q]

With Ascension, is Crit > Haste?

[Guest Shadoken]

I just picked up the Sha Touched staff from LFR, and decided that I am going to give 2h a try. I am aware that 2h has a lower DPS than DW, but since I am not into progression raiding right now, I am not worried about it.

Before reforging, I checked a few different guides, and asked a few people if the stat priority would be different for 2h, and I have gotten contradictory results. Some say haste > crit, while others say crit > haste. Before I reforge, I am hoping that I can find a straight answer here to which is the correct priority.

Another contradictory result to my questioning is that some will say Power Strikes > Accension, while others will say the opposite. I haven't seen anyone work out the numbers to which is better, but at first glance, although I may be wrong, it looks to me that Accension would provide more resources, but may also cause energy to cap much easier.

Any help would be most appreciated.

[Calligraphy 0]

The increased energy regeneration rate granted by this talent currently seems to yield a smaller DPS gain than the other two talents.

That isn't quite correct. Its DPS yield is greater because the Chi generation is greater, in addition to the fact that it allows Windwalkers to stack Crit instead of Haste.

Chi/s for each talent:

Chi Brew: .044 Chi/s

Power Strikes: .056 Chi/s

Ascension: This one takes a bit of a scenario to prove/understand.

Let's say that pre-Ascension I have around 10.87 Energy/second. Ascension gives 15% increased regeneration, which for me is approximately 12.5 energy/second. That's an increase of ~1.63 energy/second. It takes 40 energy in order to create 2 Chi, or 20 energy per chi. So, with Ascension, I am able to achieve that 20 Energy in 1.6 seconds, vs. 1.84s without Ascension.

From there, we now know that we can Jab every ~26.67 seconds with Ascension. With Jab generating 2 Chi, we normalize that (for chi/s) into .075 Chi/S.

Ascension wins at .075 Chi/s, making Power Strikes and Chi Brew inferior.

This also means that the provided stat prioritization is also incorrect. Higher haste with Ascension can be considered a loss, as it causes the Windwalker to not utilize Energizing Brew and Fists of Fury in their rotation. Reforging away from haste (into ~4K, or 10%) will allow the Windwalker to reforge into Crit instead, causing Crit to increase in priority. As Crit works with damage multipliers such as Tigereye Brew, Rising Sun Kick's debuff, and Tiger Power, Crit now becomes the stronger stat, making the Windwalker's stat priority this:

Hit/Exp (7.5% each) > Haste (4K) > Crit > Haste (after 4K) > Mastery.

This should also make energy capping less of a concern, and utilize the Windwalker's full arsenal.

The guide on Elitist Jerks has also been updated in order to reflect this information.

----------------------------------

Also, as a response to the post about the Sha-touched staff, most windwalkers (DW included) ought to go crit > haste, but this is even more important for 2H. 2H receives 40% more attack speed, therefore the value of Haste is decreased even further than it is for DW.

[Guest bubbarub]

Just wondering what the Haste cap is... before i start reforging into crit... right now im at 63% and still see any progress with my dps

[Guest Abygael]

I've made some Weak Aura Exports

Weak Aura : Monk - Windwalker exports (3 groups total) : http://redd.it/16x991

[Guest Oddoat]

So, What is the best crafting professions to take as a windwalker monk? You sort of explain what they all do, but not clearly and certainly not with a, "This is the best or most recommended". The only thing you clarify on is why two of them are not very viable, so what are the most useful two that we should be going with.

Also when you mouse over the blacksmithing socket bonuses on that same page, it says under 417 I level is all that they apply to. So unless that was a mistake (and i'm thinking it is) then that wouldnt be viable at all.

[Oobi 1]

The professions that give you 320 agility are all equal raiding wise. So choose the one among them that will earn you the most gold

The blacksmithing sockets currently link to lower level versions indeed, and should instead link to Socket Bracer and Socket Gloves

[SkuulzonVelen 2]

Skinning and Leatherworking are what I have on mine. The extra agility you gain from fur lining and LW only pant enchant are boss, plus skinning gives you master of anatomy. Leatherworking sucks though. Really needs a revamp as leather on my realm costs an ass load and skinning only nets you scraps and not many pieces.

Also, thanks for posting the scenario for Ascension. Could you please add that to the guide, as I find it is also a better choice and the stat priority there would be great.

Thanks!

[Guest Koskun]

Skinning and Leatherworking are what I have on mine. The extra agility you gain from fur lining and LW only pant enchant are boss, plus skinning gives you master of anatomy. Leatherworking sucks though. Really needs a revamp as leather on my realm costs an ass load and skinning only nets you scraps and not many pieces.

Also, thanks for posting the scenario for Ascension. Could you please add that to the guide, as I find it is also a better choice and the stat priority there would be great.

Thanks!

Something that looks to be helping come 5.2 is your farm in Tillers. The "drop" rates for the mats is going to go up in the next patch. A post somewhere from a Dev said it will be competative to going out and farming for the mats.

I know currently when I grow leather, I don't even get a full stack, usually 1 per plant. It is sounding like you could get around 2 full stacks of leather after 5.2. Worth looking in to and, for me at least, beats going out and farming for leather. Also, you don't get scraps at all (which may be why it is so low currently).

[SkuulzonVelen 2]

That would be most good.... I've tinkered with the tillers, but nothing more than friendly as I've been trying to get exalted with Shadow-Pan. But definitely on my list now.

[SkuulzonVelen 2]

My Monk is monked up at the moment. My abilities have been changed and I'm trying to figure out how to best use what I have. We now have new spirits and abilities. When is 5.2 update coming out!?

[Guest Guest]

Hi, the tooltips of Combo Breaker consistently link, on the monk pages, to Mastery: Bottled Fury.

Also, what about the addition of.Storm, Earth, and Fire in 5.2?

I can't see this ability anywhere on the Windwalker pages

[MadMonk 154]

Hi, the tooltips of Combo Breaker consistently link, on the monk pages, to Mastery: Bottled Fury.

Also, what about the addition of.Storm, Earth, and Fire in 5.2?

I can't see this ability anywhere on the Windwalker pages

Combo Breaker used to be our mastery, which is why it still links to the new mastery. A minor mistake that will get fixed.

I'm guessing they just forgot about storm, earth and fire, I'm sure they'll add it as soon as they read your post.

[Laeleiweyn 0]

Also, what about the addition of.Storm, Earth, and Fire in 5.2?

I can't see this ability anywhere on the Windwalker pages

I'm also curious about best practice-use of Storm, Earth and Fire.

I know that both Icy-Veins and AskMrRobot take their stat weights and other numbers from SimCraft. I wonder how precise the SimCraft-calculations are this early in the patch? I've read elsewhere that red gem = always go for agility, and that mastery is pretty strong now, but here it's haste all the way, and just forget about the mastery.

If I choose BiS-mode on AskMrRobot I get these numbers:

2-handed weapon: 231940 score

Dualweilding 1-handers: 319450 score

Which, if the numbers are meant to be measured against eachother, means you can perform 73 % with a 2-hander than what you would do dualweilding 1-handers?! This can't be right, can it?

I'm the only one in our raid team that can use 2-handed agility weapons, while for 1-handers we have both a rogue and an enhancement shaman. I was gonna be polite and practical about it and aim for 2-handed weapons, but screw that if it's really this much difference!

Edit: As I posted the reply I noticed this thread is still flagged as 5.1, not 5.2, so I'll await an update.

Edited March 25, 2013 by Laeleiweyn

[Damien 1,514]

I'm also curious about best practice-use of Storm, Earth and Fire.

I know that both Icy-Veins and AskMrRobot take their stat weights and other numbers from SimCraft. I wonder how precise the SimCraft-calculations are this early in the patch? I've read elsewhere that red gem = always go for agility, and that mastery is pretty strong now, but here it's haste all the way, and just forget about the mastery.

If I choose BiS-mode on AskMrRobot I get these numbers:

2-handed weapon: 231940 score

Dualweilding 1-handers: 319450 score

Which, if the numbers are meant to be measured against eachother, means you can perform 73 % with a 2-hander than what you would do dualweilding 1-handers?! This can't be right, can it?

I'm the only one in our raid team that can use 2-handed agility weapons, while for 1-handers we have both a rogue and an enhancement shaman. I was gonna be polite and practical about it and aim for 2-handed weapons, but screw that if it's really this much difference!

Edit: As I posted the reply I noticed this thread is still flagged as 5.1, not 5.2, so I'll await an update.

The thread should have been flagged 5.2. I must have missed it when we did the updates.

Regarding SimC, the results the tool gives are always subject to bugs. I've recently started contributing do the tool and there are a number of open bugs that are waiting to be fixed. Also, the simulation results you get from the tool are only as good as the person who wrote the default action list for a given spec.

For example, you can try simulating an Arcane Mage using Incanter's Ward, and you'll get very low DPS. That doesn't mean that Incanter's Ward is bad, it just means that the default action list for Arcane Mages in SimC is not optimal (something I intend to fix soon).

[Guest Yoogi]

^{In the gems. Here it says to go with Haste. Why is Haste better than Agility? I thought agility was the #1 stat.}

[MadMonk 154]

^{In the gems. Here it says to go with Haste. Why is Haste better than Agility? I thought agility was the #1 stat.}

Agility is the number 1 stat, but since haste gems have twice as many stats (320 haste vs 160 agility), they are better.

[Guest Anjo]

This guide doesn't talk about Storm, Earth, and Fire, I find it quite useful for fights like the last one in Mogu Vaults. Is there a reason why its not talked about? Is it not that useful?

[Guest citymaw]

The guide says "Note that Extra Enchantments can be applied to an item in addition to a Main Enchantment"

"Enchant boots - Greater haste" is under the "Extra Enchantments" tab whereas "Enchant Boots - Blurred Speed" is under the "Main Enchantments"-tab.

According to the guide you should therefore be able to add both Enchant Boots - Blurred Speed and Enchant boots - Greater haste to your boots.

I bought both Blurred Speed and Greater haste enchants and tried to add both enchants to my boots. What happened is that after I had already enchanted my boots with the Blurred Speed and tried to add the Greater Haste-enchant to it, I got a warning of "Do you want to replace "+140 Agility & Minor Speed Increase" with "+175 Haste?"

Either the part concerning the "extra enchantments" of the guide is wrong or the warning message comes out without a reason. Both of the enchantments are pricey so I rather not try whether the guide or the warning message is wrong.

you are correct, only one enchantment can be placed on a piece of gear. so you must choose which one would benefit you the most.

[Vlad 411]

This guide doesn't talk about Storm, Earth, and Fire, I find it quite useful for fights like the last one in Mogu Vaults. Is there a reason why its not talked about? Is it not that useful?

The guide received a pretty large update a few days ago, and this is one of the things that is now included.

you are correct, only one enchantment can be placed on a piece of gear. so you must choose which one would benefit you the most.

That was an error in the guide but it was fixed long ago, I believe. Thank you both :)

[Guest Guest]

I have found 2 errors in the guide which you might want to correct.

1. The Rune of Re-Origination Math is wrong. you stated:

"(8,000 + 4,000 + 4,000 = 16,000) added to your current highest stat (Mastery Rating in this case). This will give you 24,000 Mastery Rating"

but the combined value (16000) is what you will get in the highest stat not haste + crit + mastery on top of the base mastery value.

2. Storm, Earth, and Fire can be used on your main target in single target fights and will give you a 20% dps boost.

[Gondlem 2]

I have found 2 errors in the guide which you might want to correct.

1. The Rune of Re-Origination Math is wrong. you stated:

"(8,000 + 4,000 + 4,000 = 16,000) added to your current highest stat (Mastery Rating in this case). This will give you 24,000 Mastery Rating"

but the combined value (16000) is what you will get in the highest stat not haste + crit + mastery on top of the base mastery value.

2. Storm, Earth, and Fire can be used on your main target in single target fights and will give you a 20% dps boost.

Both of these things are untrue. Rune takes your haste, crit and mastery and converts them into mastery (if mastery is your highest of the three) and adds it to your current mastery. And SEF is not a single target DPS increase, the spirits only mimic your abilities if they are on a different target to you.

edit: I should clarify. What Rune actually does is takes your two lowest secondaries and effectively doubles them and adds them to your highest secondary. So if mastery is the highest, it takes your crit and haste values and adds them to the mastery value, and then converts everything to mastery on top of that. So if you had 4k crit, 4k haste and 5k mastery it would add your crit and haste values to your mastery, bringing your mastery up to 13k, and then convert the whole lot to mastery, giving you 21k. Kinda confusing, but that's how it functions.

Edited May 4, 2013 by Gondlem

[Guest Pong]

What Rune actually does is takes your two lowest secondaries and effectively doubles them and adds them to your highest secondary.

This is indeed how the trinket works, I can confirm as a personal user. Stats spread 6.9k/7k/7.1k, proccing to about 35k mastery.