5.2 Warlock Stat Weights and Priorities (202 replies to this topic)

EDITTED: 03/18/2012 (Patch 5.2)

I'll be keeping this page updated with the current Simulationcraft stat weights.  These weights can be found at www.simulationcraft.org.

The numbers here represent the DPS gain per point of stat.  For example, Int = 4.50 would indicate that every point of Intellect increases your DPS by 4.50.

ITEM LEVEL 522 STAT WEIGHTS

Affliction

DPS = 145168
Race = Orc
Talents = Soul Link + Grimoire of Sacrifice

Stats for Simulation
Haste = 13828 rating
Mastery = 5199 rating
Crit = 3004 rating
Hit = 5100 rating
Intellect = 16328
Spell Power = 8926

Weights
Intellect = 4.84
Spell Power = 3.88
Hit = 2.69
Mastery = 3.15
Haste = 2.89
Crit = 2.12
Int > SP > Mastery > Haste > Hit > Crit

Int > SP > Hit (5100) > Haste >= Mastery > Crit

This DPS is only a very small amount above keeping Haste and Mastery equal.  For pure Affliction Warlocks, stack Haste.  For those that use off-specs of Destruction or Demonology, try not to shove all your stats into Haste as Haste does not benefit the other specs nearly as much.

Demonology

DPS = 138096
Race = Orc
Talents = Grimoire of Service

Stats for Simulation
Haste = 4747 rating
Mastery = 3743 rating
Crit = 9133 rating
Hit = 5053 rating
Intellect = 17950
Spell Power = 8926

Stat Weights
Intellect = 4.84
Spell Power = 3.91
Hit = 3.96
Haste = 2.54
Crit = 2.17
Mastery = 2.45

Intellect > Spell Power > Hit > Mastery > Haste > Crit

Here you can see how close the ratings are.  If you ONLY play Demonology, you can reforge to this model and increase your DPS ever so slightly.  If you are mainly Affliction and like to switch to Demonology without dropping tons of gold on reforging, stick to Afflictions reforging and everything will be ok.

Destruction

DPS = 145402
Race = Orc
Talents = Grimoire of Supremacy

Stats for Simulation
Haste = 7590 rating
Mastery = 1947 rating
Crit = 7656 rating
Hit = 5090 rating
Intellect = 19226
Spell Power = 8926

Stat Weights
Intellect = 5.07
Spell Power = 3.96
Hit = 3.87
Haste = 2.57
Crit = 2.30
Mastery = 2.52

Intellect > Spell Power > Hit > Crit = Haste = Mastery

FULL HEROIC TIER 15 BEST IN SLOT ITEM LEVELS

Coming soon.

Editted to new values.

Post discussion with some other theorycrafting Warlocks, you have two scenarios to consider here...

1) Hit cap, Mastery > Haste (3043 threshold if possible) > Crit - Windsong Enchant until you acquire Jade Serpent
2) No hit cap, Mastery > Haste > Crit - Windsong Enchant until you acquire Jade Serpent

In scenario 1, your haste and mastery are a bit lower resulting in a slightly lower DPS, but you remove all worries of missed spells.  You can focus on things such as raid awareness, situational awareness, and also realize that no fight comes with Patchwerk type situations where you point and shoot.  Removing the worry of Agony falling off of a Drain Soul channel missing can greatly alleviate the stress of high end raiding.

In scenario 2, your haste and mastery are high resulting in great damage sometimes and good damage most of the time.  Your overall consistent DPS is higher, but not much...about 800 DPS gain from 76.7k to 77.5k (a 1% gain) under perfectly theoretical situations.  When simulations are done, a computer can think instantly if a spell missed and begin casting a second version of it to get it reapplied.  Humans, however, must adapt on the fly and wait for perception to happen before adjusting creating human lag.  If, for example, you were about to apply Unstable Affliction and go right back to Malefic Grasp, you'd likely be spamming your MG button as UA is being cast so that you reduce the latency between spells.  However, if that UA misses, you're doing at least one tick of MG without UA being applied/reapplied and would have to break it early to attempt UA again.  Human lag over computer lag makes hit capping a priority through and through.  If you're letting a robot raid for you, then go ahead and throw out those spell hit caps.  Otherwise, grab yourself 5100 hit rating and enjoy one less thing to worry about.  My aged excuse for hit capping: you can't crit it if you can't hit it.

For those of you who want a super simple reforging method..this is what you do.

Go to wowreforge.com.  Set your Hit to AT LEAST 5100.  Set your Haste to AT LEAST 4717.  Set your stat weights as follows...

Mastery = 3
Haste = 2
Crit = 1
Hit = 0

This should optimize you for DPS as this will hit cap you, push you over the haste threshold, and push all other stats to mastery.

what i dont understand in wow reforge is when i look at my char and its updated it says i have 4657 and its way over hit cap aswell so if i set it to atleast 5100 in hit it gives me almost 900+ more in hit :S am i doing something wrong or forgott to changed something?

http://www.wowreforg...red Hand/Aztecâ

there is the link.

Posted this on the official WoW Warlock forums, but frankly I don't expect too many replies there, so I figured I would post here:

According to various sites, 3043 is the butterzone for haste cap for Affliction Warlocks given the following:

No 5% Spell Haste buff
1 Extra UA tick
1 Extra Agony tick
1 Extra Corruption tick

5% Spell Haste buff
1 Extra UA tick
2 Extra Agony tick
1 Extra Corruption tick

and the stat weights are:
Hit > Mastery > Haste (3043) > Mastery > Crit, meaning over the haste threshold of 3043 you would begin to reforge haste and crit into mastery (hit cap seems to be optimal for Affliction at this point since the drop off is nearly insignificant, ~800 dps vs missing an important ability like a haunt/nightsong proc)

Where my confusion lies is:
Pandemic
When refreshing your periodic damage effects, duration remaining on the previous effect is added to the new one, up to a maximum of 50% the base duration.

This means if I refresh Corruption at 9 seconds with an 18 second duration, and Agony at 12 seconds with a ~24 second duration so the dots don't fall off, I never really see that extra tick.

Here are the results of a 5 minute fight on a training dummy refreshing corruption at 9 seconds and agony at 12 (both with 100% uptime):
With 3039 haste over 5 minutes, I saw 161 agony ticks, and 161 corruption ticks (without windsong procs)
with 3246 haste over 5 minutes, I saw 163 agony ticks, and 163 corruption ticks (without windsong procs)
Completely naked over 5 minutes (no haste buff, no windsong) I saw 154 agony, and 151 corruption ticks.

Now over 5 minutes, I gained being over 3043 haste 2 agony ticks, and 2 corruption ticks vs being just under the 3043 haste cap. I gained 10 corruption ticks, and 10 agony ticks being just under the haste cap compared to completely naked, and 9 ticks of agony over haste cap and 12 ticks of corruption over haste cap vs being completely naked.

That said, my question would be, is stacking haste to the cap (or even at all) worth losing mastery and crit for affliction just to gain an extra few (emphasis on few considering the ticks you gain from breaking the 3043 haste threshold are statistically insignificant) ticks? I understand that Drain Soul and Malefic Grasp are also effected by haste, but the haste cap numbers I am reading about are all about adding an extra tick to Agony, Corruption, and UA.

You're looking at these "extra ticks" all wrong.  It doesn't add time to the spell cast.  It increases the frequency of ticks in the same window of time.  For example, your 3043 haste rating has already been discovered by myself earlier in this thread.  It actually looks like you copy and pasted my findings.  Either that or great minds think alike and a double discovery is pretty conclusive that our findings are accurate and good.

Haste speeds up tick interval within the same duration upon application.  No matter what your haste is, when you apply Agony, your debuff gets applied with 24 seconds.  Think of this as 24000 milliseconds (ms).  Your standard duration under 0.000% haste for tick interval is 2000ms.  You can reduce the duration of that tick interval with haste.  Here comes the math.

At 0.000% haste, you've got 12 ticks at 2000 ms to come up to 24000 ms.  What happens with haste?
At the 3043 rating, you reduce your interval to 1714.286ms which allows for 14 ticks to happen in the same 24000 ms window.  This is how spreadsheets are calculated.  You can calculate your effective haste, see what your tick duration is reduced to, then divide 24000 by your new interval.  Note that haste can be "wasted" if you don't meet your threshold.  Let's say our haste rating was 3000.  With some paper napkin math, I see the interval being 1726ms.

If you divide 24000/1726, you get 13.9.  This means that you "wasted" 0.9 seconds worth of haste that should have gone into Mastery because it has a higher weight.  It turns out we "waste" a little haste on Corruption and Unstable Affliction because Agony's rating requirement is a bit higher, but not by much.  I don't have the haste spreadsheet handy on me, but I think UA and Corruption are around 3000 haste rating required.  another 43 rating, and all 3 of your DoTs go up 1 tick while Agony gains 2 ticks with 5% spell haste, which I'm assuming you have.

The correct stat weights, with the realitve ease to hit cap and obtain that much haste, should be:

Hit (to 15%) > Haste (3043 rating) > Mastery > Haste > Crit

This is easier to obtain at higher item levels.  It will also be worth exploring at higher item levels new haste thresholds.  It will become a topic worth discussing when we start to easily obtain 5k + haste rating and approach the next plateau.

Zagam, on 26 October 2012 - 04:17 PM, said:

Before I begin, I did totally steal your findings. I didn't mean to pass them off as my own. "Various Sites" pretty much boils down to this one and MMO-Champion. I apologize for not quoting you as a source instead of making it look like I came up with the numbers as my own. That wasn't my intention.

But lets get back to the actual math of this.
Haste increases the frequency of ticks of our dots. This we have already established.

Here are those numbers in practice though:
2061 haste (~199 under 3043 cap with 1% goblin racial) over 5 minutes on a training dummy, no 5% haste buff, no windsong.
http://www.worldoflo...aq89/details/0/ (goto damage by spell tab)
Agony: 162 ticks over 307 seconds. 1 tick every 1895 milliseconds
UA: 162 ticks over 305 seconds. 1 tick every 1883 milliseconds.
Corruption: 161 ticks over 304 seconds. 1 tick every 1888 milliseconds.

2443 Haste (Above 3043 cap by ~183 with goblin racial - 6.81% haste on char sheet) over 5 minutes on a training dummy, no 5% haste buff, no windsong procs:
http://www.worldoflo...tyu4/details/0/ (goto damage by spell tab)
Agony: 161 ticks over 301 seconds. 1 tick every 1870 milliseconds.
UA: 162 ticks over 303 seconds. 1 tick every 1870 milliseconds.
Corruption: 161 ticks over 304 seconds. 1 tick every 1870 milliseconds.

0 Haste over 5 minutes on a training dummy, no 5% haste buff, no windsong procs:
http://www.worldoflo...9fc2/details/0/ (goto damage by spell tab)
Agony: 153 ticks over 302 seconds. 1 tick every 1974 milliseconds.
UA: 156 ticks over 308 seconds. 1 tick every 1974 milliseconds.
Corruption: 153 ticks over 302 seconds. 1 tick every 1974 milliseconds.

Gains for breaking the 3043 haste cap (using 1% goblin racial and 2443 haste) @ 300 seconds assuming 100% uptime (not rounding up because in this example I am assuming the boss dies and all damage done ends at exactly 300 seconds):
Agony - 151 ticks naked (1% haste) over 300 seconds, 158 ticks over 300 seconds before haste cap. 160 ticks over 300 seconds after haste cap.
Total gain (over 300 seconds): 9 ticks from naked, 2 ticks below 3043, or (using my average damage per tick in raid gear) a gain of 67,879.8 damage vs naked, and 15,084.4 damage vs just below haste cap.
A gain of 226.266 DPS vs naked.
A gain of 75.4 DPS vs just below 3043 haste.

UA - 151 ticks over 300 seconds naked. 159 ticks over 300 seconds before haste cap. 160 ticks over 300 seconds after haste cap.
Total Gain (over 300 seconds): 9 ticks from naked, 1 ticks from just below haste cap, or (using my average damage per tick in raid gear) a gain of 64,955.7 damage from naked,  7217.3 damage from just below haste cap.
A gain of 216.519 DPS vs Naked
A gain of 24.06 DPS vs just below haste cap.

Corruption - 151 ticks over 300 seconds naked. 158 ticks over 300 seconds before haste cap. 160 ticks over 300 seconds after haste cap.
Total Gain (over 300 seconds): 9 ticks from naked, 2 ticks just below haste cap, or (using my average damage per tick in raid gear) a gain of 53,741.7 damage from naked, 11,942.6 damage just below the haste cap.
A gain of 179.139 DPS vs naked.
A gain of 39.8 DPS vs just below the haste cap.

So stacking 3043 haste vs not wearing even 1 piece of haste gear nets you a grand total of 621.924 DPS, assuming you maintain 100% uptime on all 3 dots. Unless my math is wrong, this just doesn't seem like a huge gain. You even said it yourself, the ~800 dps gain wasn't worth not getting as close as you can to hit cap. So why would a ~600 dps gain be worth trying to get to 3043 haste and make haste the highest weighted stat vs crit or mastery? Is there some other mechanic I am missing here? Is my math off?

Edited by yzerman, 26 October 2012 - 10:54 PM.

double edit: http://www.totemspot.../entry.php?b=44 nice haste post for all classes with/without goblin bonuses and 5% haste.

Edited by Keyz, 01 November 2012 - 04:26 AM.

No, your math isn't wrong.  And I didn't mean to sound hostile.  Sometimes people in my office put me in moods and they translate poorly onto these forums.  Apologies.

Right now I'm having some difficulty finding weights and thresholds valuable.  While I clearly understand Simcraft, I'm unable to reproduce those effects in raiding environments in my own attempts.  I'll never testify that I'm the best Warlock in the world, but I do claim to be quite competent.  These finds are rather...weird.  And yes, I understand my sample size is much smaller than the thousands of iterations that can be done simulating, but still...these should be noted.

Simcraft, with my weights given of Mastery > Haste > Crit (I hit cap for my own reasons forgetting the silly 600 DPS possible gain), it says I should do 68.5k on a Patchwerk type fight.  The closest encounter we currently have to Patchwerk is Gara'jal if you're NOT sent to the Shadow realm.  On two attempts, I did NOT go into the Shadow realm thus not giving myself any extra buff.  I managed to do 73.5k both times.  How I'm simming higher with pushback, no ridiculous crits, having to use Soulstone on someone, and not pre-potting is confusing me and to be honest...I'm losing my faith in Simcraft.

By the same notion, I did LFR twice with the same exact reforges as Affliction.  I did the Gara'jal attempt twice as Affliction and did 73.2k and 73.1k DPS which is pretty darn consistent.  Then I thought...why not switch specs and see if Destruction is really as bad as it seems.  I did 73.3k DPS as Destruction...kinda blew my mind.

Now two things to note here: I was still reforged for Affliction's priority (Mast > Haste > Crit) while Destruction favors Crit over Haste, but not by much.  For example, Aff's stat weight of Mastery is 2.45 while Crit is 1.4 creating a huge gap.  Destruction's Mastery is 1.75 while Crit is 1.70 and Haste is 1.65.  Basically you can play Destruction with any reforge and be ok.  I'm truly at a loss seeing how Destruction sims at 61k while Aff sims at 69k.  How I'm beating the simulation model by over 10k DPS is a bit...discerning for me.  I'm good, but I'm not THAT good.  I'm going to do a lot of work this weekend to find personalized tests.  If I'm interpretting the stat weights correctly, it looks like as you acquire more gear, Affliction pulls way ahead of Destruction.  I can see that, but apparently it doesn't break open at the 486 ilvl I'm currently sitting at.  I appreciate the extra efforts as anyone who finds similar results to me clearly means we're on the right path.

Oh, and the reason I list the 3043 haste rating is because that's the theshold for new DoT ticks.  I say to get to that point because people are going to have SOME haste on their gear.  It's just that 2900 haste rating is much less helpful than 3043 rating just the same as 3200 haste doesn't benefit you much more than 3043.

How many iterations are you running your sim report? Care to post it here? Do you have any logs of your attempts as destro? I'm sure there's a lot of RNG here but I'm interested as well.

Also, there really seems to be no official word on haste and I'm hearing arguments from both sides of the fence. My own sims are causing some confusion. I'm at a 482 ilvl and haste has skyrocketed in weight for me. I was used to Haste overtaking Mastery when I was approaching a threshold but now it seems like Haste is going to be beating Mastery for a long time. Here's my plot points. I'm running at 6742/15.86% haste and 43.84% mastery. Is the next plateau 16.65% and is that where simcraft is trying to push me? It seems really odd to me to be pushing this much haste

Chobani, on 04 November 2012 - 12:23 AM, said:

I haven't done a ton of Destro work, but I just pull the weights without too much analysis.  You're asking for Haste vs Mastery when the scaling difference is a 400 DPS difference under 1000+ iterations.  Destro's stat weights are so close that you almost can't go wrong picking one stat over the other.

So....

Until ilvl 490 +/-, should i go after Haste and Mastery and ignoring Hit or Hit capping and go after 3056 haste points + full mastery?

It seems that the difference between hit capped and non-hit capped is quite minor, +-1k dps (This is quite low).
As Zagram has been suggesting all along, going with hit cap, makes you play 'stressless', wich is good.

So I'm seeing a few locks on worldoflogs that are all reforging to have 4700~ haste rating. I also see that from the haste points that at 4717 haste you get another tick of corruption. So if my gear can, should I reforge some mastery to get to that threshold?

my link:
http://us.battle.net...iahnna/advanced

Edited by Lyri, 08 November 2012 - 07:15 AM.

Lyri, on 08 November 2012 - 07:15 AM, said:

Yes.  Priority is either:

1) Hit to 15%, Haste to 4717 (4250 for Goblins), Mastery, Haste, Crit
2) Haste to 4717 (4250 for Goblins), Mastery, Hit, Haste, Crit

Zagam, on 26 October 2012 - 04:17 PM, said:

This is just plain wrong due to the level 90 DoT mechanics. You can't "waste" any of the haste unless you let the dot fall off. Which you're not doing. You get 100% of the benefit of that 0.9 seconds as long as you wait until the dot timer is below 50% before you refresh.

It's really not useful to think of breakpoints the way we did before level 90. Instead you should think about it in encounter specific ways. Like are you going to get that extra tick before the 6th spark on Elegon hits?

Edited by vinzz, 08 November 2012 - 07:39 PM.

vinzz, on 08 November 2012 - 06:21 PM, said:

No, it's not wrong theoretically.  You're referencing specific parts of fights that are nearly impossible to model.  Haste isn't wasted in that it makes your MG channel faster, but it's wasted if you're using more Haste than the 4717/4250 threshold when those values could be going into Mastery.  You just receive a large DPS scaling at the 4717/4250 threshold moreso than if you just dumped all stats into Mastery.  At that threshold, you reduce the time between DoT ticks to a point where you gain additional ticks in the same duration.  When you reapply a DoT and receive the duration bonus through Pandemic, you're still getting bonus ticks.  The reason this threshold is important is you get two bonus ticks of Corruption.  Since you get two, that means in the 8 seconds maximum duration you add through Pandemic, you're getting an additional tick rather than clipping it if you were to do it at 8 seconds without being at that haste threshold.

What is this fabled 6th spark on Elegon you speak of?  4/4 is easily sufficient to kill the boss with average DPS around 95k.  We do 4/4 and killed him at 8:30.  5/5 seems like some severe overkill.

If you DO want to talk about it in fight specific encounters, I would like to point out the extra ticks you would get in AoE situations when you Soulburn a Seed of Corruption.  All of those Corruptions ticking faster = many more Nightfall procs and more DPS.  You also would benefit from multi-dotting situations when you can't necessarily keep up DoTs on all targets and they fall off because you have a more important priority (Will of the Emperor).  Letting your DoTs go a full duration and gaining 1 or 2 ticks can really boost your DPS, but only to the point where you get that haste threshold met.  Any haste past that threshold would be time wasted of that DoT ticking but not reaching its next tick timer before the duration wore off.

Zagam, on 08 November 2012 - 02:34 PM, said:

Zagam, on #2 shouldn't there be Haste again listed after Hit?
i.e. 2) Haste to 4717 (4250 for Goblins), Mastery, Hit, Haste, Crit