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Mistweaver Monk 5.4

110 replies to this topic Started by Damien, Sep 19 2012 12:01 AM comments monk mistweaver

Posted 19 September 2012 - 12:01 AM

#1
Damien
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This thread is for comments about our Mistweaver Monk guide.

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 11:28 PM

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Cyndaria
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Ascension isn't going to be a useful talent for any monks then?

Edited by Cyndaria, 19 September 2012 - 11:29 PM.

Posted 19 September 2012 - 11:39 PM

#3
Vlad
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Ascension isn't going to be a useful talent for any monks then?


In the current state of things, I don't see it being useful at all for any spec, no.

I suppose a case could be made for players who are having trouble tracking their resources and often end up capping their Chi. But then again, these players should force themselves to improve, and not become complacent in their failure.

Posted 22 September 2012 - 08:59 PM

#4
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In the current state of things, I don't see it being useful at all for any spec, no.

I suppose a case could be made for players who are having trouble tracking their resources and often end up capping their Chi. But then again, these players should force themselves to improve, and not become complacent in their failure.


Or unless you want to burst with a couple of powerful heals and have greater flexibility and control during big hit moments. But then, who is going to use "jab" in a raid?

You get enough chi from renewing mists and Jade Crackle Lightning to not even bother going anywhere near melee of the boss.

and Chi Tea which gives you 3 Chi on 1.5 minute cooldown when you get Chi spewing out of your ears...

Posted 25 September 2012 - 06:33 PM

#5
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''
2.2. Specific Addons for Mistweaver Monks

Currently, we do not feel that any additional addons are needed to play a Mistweaver Monk to its full potential.''


You cant be a good Monk MW without an addon to track the total number of Renewing Mist active on the raid at any given time and a timer showing the lowest remaining duration timer.(like Renewing Mist Watcher...which is a lil bit buggy )

Posted 28 September 2012 - 09:17 PM

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@Soothsayer That is exactly how you heal as Mistweaver, by doing jabs. I have seen many people attempting to play like you do and it simply isn't the way it is intended. I am able to pull around 20k dps~ in an instance and easily match that in healing at the same time. The biggest thing you need to learn is that you need to do your healing via Chi. This means you need as much production so you can let it loose, there is no "chi saving" at all, since any spare chi can be used to deal damage if not used in a heal. This means you have a constant very nice source of healing going on constantly, however, the biggest draw back is burst healing, simply because spamming Surging Mist will OOM you fast. If you need to do a burst, you need to do Soothing on Target, then a Surging, and use the Chi to apply Enveloping Mist, and that should cover it.

Posted 01 October 2012 - 10:59 AM

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This is an amazing work, thank you Posted Image

Posted 02 October 2012 - 06:10 PM

#8
Vlad
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Just to remind everyone, I am reading this thread (and all others). We're extremely busy now with raids becoming available, so replying is not always easy. I made some changes to the guide a while back, to say that if you are having to heal intense damage, you should abandon the whole Serpent's Zeal stuff in favour of just spamming your heals. But I do agree with Tiaexz, that Jabbing is always important. Regarding the addons, we do advise the use of Grid, which should provide everything you need to track your spells on raid members. :) Thanks for all the comments, guys!

Posted 05 October 2012 - 10:15 PM

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Amazing guide, maybe the best around the internet so far. I've been playing the MW monk and so far everything in here is really solid. I would suggest one detail that I realize myself during some periods of oom and the need for strong aoe heals in my raid, and if you don't have enough mana for surging mists or you simply want to save some mana. While keeping renewing mists on cd, you could jab twice (or expel harm + jab) for the cheap chi generation and then uplift the raid. That is also the fastest way to get chi, therefore I used this "rotation" for intense burst aoe heal combined with revival, thunder focus tea and chi brew as well. To sum up: - Keep Renwing Mist on cd; - Jab twice or expel harm+jab; - Uplift; - Use jab+thunder focus tea if you think you will need to uplift a lot more; - Use Chi Brew if you don't even have time to jab twice; - Repeat; - Top the hps chats.

Posted 06 October 2012 - 08:42 PM

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Amazing guide, maybe the best around the internet so far.
I've been playing the MW monk and so far everything in here is really solid.
I would suggest one detail that I realize myself during some periods of oom and the need for strong aoe heals in my raid, and if you don't have enough mana for surging mists or you simply want to save some mana.
While keeping renewing mists on cd, you could jab twice (or expel harm + jab) for the cheap chi generation and then uplift the raid.
That is also the fastest way to get chi, therefore I used this "rotation" for intense burst aoe heal combined with revival, thunder focus tea and chi brew as well.
To sum up:
- Keep Renwing Mist on cd;
- Jab twice or expel harm+jab;
- Uplift;
- Use jab+thunder focus tea if you think you will need to uplift a lot more;
- Use Chi Brew if you don't even have time to jab twice;
- Repeat;
- Top the hps chats.


Thank you for the nice post. I've included your suggestions in section 5.2.2.

Posted 06 October 2012 - 11:00 PM

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Mithril Wristwatch doesn't procc in Healspec. :-/

Posted 11 October 2012 - 12:05 PM

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Mithril Wristwatch doesn't procc in Healspec. :-/


Thanks for spotting this. We've fixed it.

Posted 15 October 2012 - 07:11 PM

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Chi Torpedo has a higher range than Roll (i guess 20y instead of 15y), which in my opinion makes it difficult to use in a raid setting. Also, at least according to the tooltip, Rushing Jade Wind does NOT heal, only damage targets in front of you. (it should however heal via eminence, if you hit an enemy) And lastly, i think Zen Sphere is undervalued in this Guide. In my Gear (iLvl 462, 11k Intellect), Zen Sphere ticks for 8k every 2s for 26s (8 ticks) => 64k total heal PER TARGET, detonation is 30k PER TARGET. Chi Wave heals 27k per Jump, so it heals a theoretical maximum of 7x27k => 189k BUT it can (and will) also jump onto enemies, which deals about 7k dmg (and should heal the same via eminence) per jump.

Posted 15 October 2012 - 07:43 PM

#14
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(i can't edit my previous post, since i have no account) Additional Ideas: The soothing Mist from the serpent heals less than your own (7k my own, 3k5 from the serpent) => 10k - 11k per tick total. crackling jade lightning heals about 15k per tick (Dummy: 12629 dmg, 75777 eminence, 7577 statue => ?? 15154 total heal ??) Soothing Mist costs 3k mana/s crackling jade lightning costs 4k5 mana/s. So if you only want to top people off, it could be better to cast crackling jade lightning on the boss instead of using soothing mist. Someone (i'm too lazy, honestly) should run the math on this.

Posted 22 October 2012 - 02:42 PM

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Sneakyferret
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While leveling my Mistweaver monk, i noticed that when silenced we are still able to use Spinning Crane Kick.

Not sure if this is intended, but this provides us a steady amount of healing when silenced.

Edited by Sneakyferret, 22 October 2012 - 02:43 PM.

Moon Guard - Sneakyferret (Druid) Horde

Guardian = 476 ilvl

Boomkin = 463 ilvl

Posted 24 October 2012 - 07:34 PM

#16
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Thank you for the awesome guide!

One note. On the page about gearing up it states (emphasis mine):
* Holy Paladins and Restoration Shamans can also equip healing Shields. Therefore, they should never be given priority on an Off-Hand Frill, over Balance/Restoration Druids, Mages, Mistweaver Monks, Discipline/Holy Priest, Elemental Shamans, and Warlocks.

Elemental Shamans can equip shields too.

Posted 25 October 2012 - 01:36 AM

#17
Vlad
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Thank you for the awesome guide!

One note. On the page about gearing up it states (emphasis mine):
* Holy Paladins and Restoration Shamans can also equip healing Shields. Therefore, they should never be given priority on an Off-Hand Frill, over Balance/Restoration Druids, Mages, Mistweaver Monks, Discipline/Holy Priest, Elemental Shamans, and Warlocks.

Elemental Shamans can equip shields too.


Thank you!

Posted 29 October 2012 - 11:21 AM

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i like the guide but i do not like the stat weights and do think they are off. haste past 1345 is not better then mastery or crit. you say more mastery lowers the cast time of our heals. but then again which heal do we cast ? surging mist and enveloping are instant when channeling soothing and renewing mist is also instant same goes for healing sphere and expel harm and basically everything we have can be instant except for chi burst. so to say haste is better then mastery and crit past 1345 is just no true. you won't make 1 extra tick at the current gear levels past 1345 so after 1345 haste is out least preffered stat. after 1345 it is a toss up between mastery and crit. mastery in theory can be very good if the raiders pick up the orbs. so in 25 man with more people moving around it can be really good but for me in 10 man it is not as good. so crit will be better although being rng it still provides better throughput then mastery and haste for me. with the change to the healing spheres dissapearing sooner and healing a nearby target for half of the heal when it is not used and dissapears mastery will become a hell of a lot better for both 10 and 25 man raiding. so then it will be spirit (till you are comfortable)-haste(1345)-Intellect-Mastery-Crit-Haste(past 1345) atleast in my opinion

Posted 29 October 2012 - 02:02 PM

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Sneakyferret
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With the new addition to the talent Ascension from the PTR: "Ascension now also increases your maximum mana by 15%, and your energy regen by 15%"

Is it gonna be viable for pve? or is it gonna stay mainly for pvp.

Edited by Sneakyferret, 29 October 2012 - 02:03 PM.

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Boomkin = 463 ilvl

Posted 29 October 2012 - 11:28 PM

#20
Vlad
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i like the guide but i do not like the stat weights and do think they are off.
haste past 1345 is not better then mastery or crit.
you say more mastery lowers the cast time of our heals. but then again which heal do we cast ? surging mist and enveloping are instant when channeling soothing and renewing mist is also instant same goes for healing sphere and expel harm and basically everything we have can be instant except for chi burst. so to say haste is better then mastery and crit past 1345 is just no true. you won't make 1 extra tick at the current gear levels past 1345 so after 1345 haste is out least preffered stat.

after 1345 it is a toss up between mastery and crit. mastery in theory can be very good if the raiders pick up the orbs. so in 25 man with more people moving around it can be really good but for me in 10 man it is not as good. so crit will be better although being rng it still provides better throughput then mastery and haste for me.

with the change to the healing spheres dissapearing sooner and healing a nearby target for half of the heal when it is not used and dissapears mastery will become a hell of a lot better for both 10 and 25 man raiding. so then it will be spirit (till you are comfortable)-haste(1345)-Intellect-Mastery-Crit-Haste(past 1345) atleast in my opinion


And we do value your opinion.

Regarding the stats, we are currently still discussing possibilities with our friends at Ask Mr. Robot (they have yet to conclude all their simulations on this matter), but it really is a toss-up at this point between Haste or Mastery after the soft-cap, even though I personally feel that Haste is the way to go.

Critical Strike Rating has the same problems it has always had for healers, its unreliability and unpredictability, regardless of what the overall healing done by it might be.

Regarding Mastery, I will grant you that it is generally a very good stat - if your raid is making use of it. If everyone is maximising the potential healing of the spheres, then it is great. But if it you end up with many unused spheres, spheres that overheal where they shouldn't, and so on, then the value drops significantly. Most guilds are probably in the latter category, no offense intended whatsoever (it can be pretty hard to see the spheres in the chaos that goes on in most fights, and it is hard to move out of your way to get them when you have many other positioning concerns).

That said, I agree that the guide should probably present both options a bit more openly. I will make a point of editing this very soon.

Oh, and the PTR change, assuming it holds, certainly makes Mastery extremely good.

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