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Sikeli

Feral PVE -Take a look at my logs please...

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Hi all. I'm a new kitty Druid, currently playing as my alt in MoP, considering making it my main in WoD. I did my first flex run on this toon tonight (started the night at ilvl 515, was my guild's alt/flex weekly run). 

 

Simcraft told me at ilvl 515, heavy movement/average player skill, I should be doing 134,800k. Honestly with an average of 86k over 13/14 bosses tonight, as my first real run focusing on doing things optimally, I'm fairly pleased with myself. I know I can do alot better, and I have a ton to learn.

 

So please look over my logs and tell me what I'm doing well with and what I really need to improve on;

 

http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/36GtTBMA9qLyaH2C/#boss=-2

 

Also, here is my armory (post flex run, new gear/reforged per mr robot);

 

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/stormrage/Ekilis/simple

Edited by Sikeli

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Bleed uptimes!!!!

 

Rip and Rake should both be 95% or higher and your average was ~35% and 90% respectively.

 

My question would be, what are you wasting those combo points on? 

-The answer should be Savage Roar, but you only have uptimes close to 70% on that

 

I wasn't able to look at a play-by-play since Advanced Combat was not enabled during logging, so I'll I can really say is that you need to spend some serious time behind a target dummy so that you can get used to the rotation.  Pretty much every combo point cycle will finish with you using Savage Roar, then Rip on the next set.

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Hmmm... interesting.

 

I do prioritize bleeds. My typical single target prioritization goes as follows (not in beserk);

 

mangle/rake/mangle/rake/mangle (5 combo): SR (if not up): repeat M/R/M/R/M : (5 combo) : Rip

 

I think, well know, where I'm failing with this is when I have multiple targets. Either I loose my combo points on a dead target (trash) or I target off of them and don't get back to them. 

 

Question. If I have BOTH SR & Rip up on the target (not under 25%) and have gone through 2 5 combo point rotations... what do I I prioritize? Refreshing SR or Rip....or something else?

 

Here is my Malkorok fight, nice single target DPS burn;

 

http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/36GtTBMA9qLyaH2C/#type=damage-done&source=28&fight=14

 

Rake is 92.29% up, Rip is only 34.90% up though. Not sure how to keep Rip up more other than to refresh it on EVERY 5 combo point dump when I don't need SR and I'm not under 25%. Right?

Edited by Sikeli

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Let's stick with single target for now.

Right off the bat:

 

You shouldn't be refreshing your bleeds unless the one on your target is weaker.  This means your Mangle-Rake strat is junk.  I wrote something up for my buddy who was starting to play feral for an alt....take a look and let me know if you don't understand it.

 

 
Up until WoD, we are really only good for single target (unless you are a god at resource management and seeing what will happen in a fight 30-40 seconds ahead of time), so stick to learning the single target rotation!
Your combo point cycle should be kept simple for now, with the first 4-5 cp's in a fight going toward Savage Roar then the next 5 cp's going toward Rip.  Never Rip below 5 cp! (this isn't true when it comes to min/max with RoR).  So, it terms of finishers being used, as long as you are over 25% boss hp you should only ever use Savage Roar and Rip.
 
One of the big downfalls I see of new ferals coming from other classes is that they tend to let Savage Roar fall off because they are caught 1/2 way into their next combo point cycle.  Feel free to refresh SR whenever you want.  You will find yourself refreshing with 20+ seconds at times.  Don't fret though because a cp cycle could be anywhere from 6 seconds (3 gcd's with 3 crits) to 20 seconds depending on RNG.
 
Bleeds:
Rake - This is your highest DPE (damage per energy) skill.  Not only do you get initial application damage based on current AP and Mastery, but it also ticks every 3 seconds.
Rip - This should be your highest damaging ability.  Use on every other cp cycle.  If the currently applied Rip is stronger wait for it to fall off.  If it is weaker, feel free to overwrite it.  This ticks every 2 seconds.
Thrash - The rotation is quite easy so I don't want to say not to use it, but since it will only make up about 5% of your overall damage (completely single target), only use it when you are trying to waste energy or on an Omen of Clarity proc.  This ticks every 3 seconds.
 
DD:
I'll copy/paste what I have written elsewhere.

one question: Is mangle or shredd better i see you use manlge ?

 
 
20% extra damage kind of seems like a no-brainer to use Shred, however it costs 5 more energy.  So, it makes the decision quite a bit harder. In the past, it was a large damage loss to use Mangle>Shred, but that was also when our combo point builders were doing a substantial amount of our overall damage.  Anymore our bleeds are what dominates our damage.  So, how do we maximize our bleed damage?  
 
The best way is to fully take advantage of any kind of trinket proc that will increase the amount of damage dealt by Rip-Rake-Thrash.  In order to track bleed damage percentages, a custom script in weakauras was developed by a couple different ferals which can be found here.  Simply import this string into weakauras, then tweak where you want each percentage and size/color, then voila, you can now more effectively track how strong your current bleeds are.
 
How does this have anything to do with whether or not I use Mangle/Shred?
Well, it goes back to the cost of the energy for each ability.  The extra 5 energy you save from using Mangle>Shred really adds up over the course of a fight (usually around an extra 350 energy per fight).  That extra energy is spent generating more combo points through Mangle, which allows you to refresh your bleeds early if you have a trinket proc.   
 
The most optimal rotation is what is known as "Shrangle".  Shrangle refers to using a mixture of Shred and Mangle, and you should try to take advantage of this.  The rules to using Shrangle are as follows; only use Shred if one or more of the following:
Bloodlust is up
Berserk is up
Omen of Clarity is up

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Thank You. This is helping me wrap my head around the finer points of this.

 

Two questions I'm wondering. I think I know the answer but want to make sure?

 

1). When you (or any feral guide author) says "...currently applied Rip is stronger wait for it to fall off" (Weaker) what do you mean? is it that that application of Rip could be "stronger" because of a trinket proc or crit? Refreshing it with another, sans trinket proc/crit will "weaken" it?

 

2). So what should my combo builders be if my Mangle/Rake/Mangle/Rake/Mangle is not good? I shouldn't start a fight as Mangle/Mangle/Mangle/Mangle/Mangle - SR - Rake/Rake/Rake/Rake/Rake - Rip - ... I want to get rakes up ASAP, on trinket/passive proc ideally, no? "Shrangle" is better, but isn't optimal either (no bleeds), right? What should my combo builders be (in general, I know that there is not cookie cutter rotation with ferals)? Especially if I want to maintain 90%+ uptime of Rake?

 

---

 

Also aren't then doing away with Shred all together (ability pruning) for WoD?

Edited by Sikeli

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1)  Let's say you are in cat form and start the fight.  You get 5 cp's by using Mangle, then you apply your Rip (we will call it Rip-X which has a base damage of 100).

 

Anytime you receive a buff, your next Rip (Rip-Y) will be stronger than Rip-X by that buff percentage.

An in-game scenario would be:

Apply Rip-X, spend 5 combo points on Savage Roar and gather 5 more combo points.  Use Tiger's Fury, then apply Rip-Y.

Rip-Y will then have a damage increase of 165% (100[base Rip-X] + 40%[savage Roar] + 15%[Tiger's Fury])

 

*If you refresh Rip-Y with another Rip that has no damage modifiers, you will go back to the standard damage rate of Rip-X

2)  I think you are getting confused as to what is a bleed and what is a combo point builder.

Take a look at another something I had written up:

Combo Point Generators
Mangle: Used when you cannot be behind the boss.  Becomes the #1 cp generator when your itlvl becomes ~517.
Rake: Highest DPE ability, strong bleed
Shred: #1 CP generator, will be your #1 filler.  After itlvl 517, only use when you are under the effects of BL/TF/Berserking.
Ravage: Put this way way off to the side, you will likely only use it on 1 boss a tier
Swipe: AoE only when 3+ targets, if you hit >1 target, you generate 1 CP (does not benefit from Primal Fury)
Thrash: Mainly for AoE (does not generate a combo point)
 
Finishers (consumes combo points)
Rip: An extremely strong bleed, never apply at <5 CP
Savage Roar: Buffs all damage! Don't let this fall off
Ferocious Bite: Use when boss has <25% hp to refresh Rip, other then that, use very very seldomly
 
DPS Cooldowns
Berserk: Should be macro'd to your Troll racial
Tiger's Fury: Always use before a Berserk
Wild Charge: Boss knockback? No problem with this handy talent! More uptime=more dps
Healing Touch: I will explain how this is a DPS cooldown below
Faerie Fire: Used in cat form, you get a 6 sec cd on this ability.  It automatically applies 3 stacks (-4% armor each).  Make sure this doesn't fall.
 
Defensive Cooldowns
Survival Instincts: Should be used during periods of immense damage intake
Barkskin: This should almost always be on cd
Quick tip: SD and BS don't stack additively.  If you are having a long peroid of damage intake, pop SD first and then BS as it wears off.  You will reduce incoming damage more this way.
Show me the math: 
Well if an ability is about to hit you for 100,000 damage and you have SD + BS up.  SD takes 50% off, so it is now 50,000 and BS takes 20% of the 50,000, leaving you with 40,000 damage taken.  If they stacked additively, you would reduce 70% which leaves you taking only 30,000 damage.
Rebirth: Save the bads with this battle rez
 
Interupt
 
THE ROTATION
 
DoC Rotation
 Faerie Fire if not up on the target
 Savage Roar needs to be up 100%
 Healing Touch if Predatory Swiftness is up and you have 4 combo points on your target
 Healing Touch if Predatory Swiftness is up and you have 1.5 seconds left on the buff
 Tiger's Fury only if energy below 35 (So you wont energy cap)
 Sync Berserk right after Tiger's Fury(It's worth waiting for TF)
 Ferocius Bite if target below 25% and Rip is up and below 3-4 seconds, no matter how many CPs you have.
 Thrash if Omen of Clarity is up and Thrash is down or below 3-4 seconds
 Virmen's Bite if DoC is up TF and optimal agility procs is up, target below 25% health and 5cps on the target followed by Rip.
 Rip if combo points 5.
 Shred to extend Rip if it's about to fade.
 Ferociuse Bite if 5 CPs and Rip has 8 seconds or more durutation.
 Sync every other Rake with Tiger's Fury and prefferebly DoC.
 Shred if OoC is up.
 Thrash if Thrash(DoT) is down and 5CPs on your primary target.
 Shred to build combo points.
 
DoC Opener
 Healing Touch to proc DoC
 Savage Roar
 Pre-Potion
 Faeie Fire
 Savage Roar (must be with either 9.5/6.5/3.5 seconds left on SR{explained below})
 Rake
 Rake
 Shred (at this point you will have a minimum of 3 CP, max of 5, but most likely 4)
 If at 4 CP, Rake
 If at 5 CP, Rip (You should have ~6 seconds left on SR)
 Healing Touch from PS as often as you if becomes available
 Shred until SR is about to expire
 Savage Roar
 Continue with the above priority list
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The weak aura string Paloro linked is similar to what I'm going to post.  I made modifications to that string in this post here

 

I'll put it here again for convenience.

 

 

------

Ok, so When I loaded it i noticed that the aura was very small and it was only numbers.  I made it a bit more first time user friendly by also adding a little bit of custom code to the duration text.
 
here is a picture of what it looks like
B4Iutka.png
 
 
I can change it to look a little differently if you need it
 
Delete the old one (make sure you do "delete children AND group") and here is my edit.


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Thank you everyone. This is all giving me alot to think about and work on!

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Thank you everyone. This is all giving me alot to think about and work on!

If you are still struggling, feel free to ask any questions.

 

Check out some ferals in action.  I haven't been active since January, but I have most of my guilds kills linked in the SoO thread http://www.icy-veins.com/forums/topic/3032-siege-of-orgrimmar-feral-druid-shredding-action/

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