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chrisdux

Concern about the state of warlocks in WoD

55 posts in this topic

I'd like to share my thoughts on the subject and would love to get some feedback from our great warlock community. I honestly feel that the changes to warlocks in WoD are a bit of an overkill. Let's look at it from spec-by-spec perspective:

Affliciton was too powerfull in MoP because of snapshotting. So they've removed snapshotting and disabled effective multi-dotting at the same time.
Giving a shard cost to soul swap and also reducing your ability to regain the shards via drain sould has totally killed the spec.
Even if the spec does acceptable single-target damage after tuning, I wonder why should anyone play it since it's the least flexible and fun spec to play in the whole game atm.

Destruction was in a fine position, doing steady dps, being capable of nice burst when needed and also being able to dps on the move to some extent.
Blizzard decided to "tune down" movement dps abilities for all casters. This translates to ele shammy and warlock. Seems there are no other casters since there is no other caster movement balance involved.
For warlocks, this meant not only changing KJC into another active cd to track and press (didn't they say they want to reduce the number of buttons to press?), but also removing fel flame at the same time, just to make sure there's absolutely nothing to press unless you take KJC. Even if you take the talent, the uptime is only 13% at the best.

Demonology was a fine spec until ToT got out and the UVLS appeared. This of course made Blizzard nerf both the trinket and Demonology as a spec. Since playing demonology at an optimal level required a lot of planning and thinking in MoP, Blizzard decided to put into WoD another spell for Demonology warlock with clumsy mechanics, just to make you think about your execution that little bit more. Luckyly, it turns out that Demonbolt won't be better single-target dps than AOE talent Cataclysm.

Overall, I'm not happy with the changes to warlocks as presented in WoD so far. I think the class was very well designed in MoP and didn't need any playstyle changes at all. With the exception of snapshotting that was causing balance problems of course, but this problem seems to be solved once and for all. I think that it was quite obvious that the MoP warlock redesign was thoroughly discussed with top warlock players like Shinafae from Blood Legion or Sparkuggz from Method, since the specs were easy to learn, hard to master and - most of all - fun to play.

 

The playstyle changes to the class seem to be fun-detrimental, the new talent tier uninspired at best. It makes me wonder:
Do they look at the big picture when they do these class changes?
Do they discuss any of the changes with some actual warlock players?

Please, let me know if you know about some warlock feedback that actually got some kind of positive response from Blizzard in regard to the WoD changes.

Have a nice day and see you around!

Edited by chrisdux

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Affliciton was too powerfull in MoP because of snapshotting. So they've removed snapshotting and disabled effective multi-dotting at the same time.

Giving a shard cost to soul swap and also reducing your ability to regain the shards via drain sould has totally killed the spec.

Even if the spec does acceptable single-target damage after tuning, I wonder why should anyone play it since it's the least flexible and fun spec to play in the whole game atm.

 

 

"Fun" is subjective. What is "fun" to you and what is "fun" to me isn't the same thing. So jumping up and down saying that something isn't "fun" isn't a good argument. 

 

Shard cost to SS is a needed change as it nerfs the multi dot ability, snap shotting make Aff OP in a lot of ways but no cost on being able to throw dots everywhere really broke it, in PvE and in PvP. Cleave is good, bouncing dots to everything that moves with no cost is grossly overpowered.

 

This has another effect though, it gives you more to do. If I can't bounce my dots from target A to B with no worries, then I have to start tracking them again in a meaningful way. More like old school Aff, a debatable change but still something to consider. 

 

 

Destruction was in a fine position, doing steady dps, being capable of nice burst when needed and also being able to dps on the move to some extent.

Blizzard decided to "tune down" movement dps abilities for all casters. This translates to ele shammy and warlock. Seems there are no other casters since there is no other caster movement balance involved.

For warlocks, this meant not only changing KJC into another active cd to track and press (didn't they say they want to reduce the number of buttons to press?), but also removing fel flame at the same time, just to make sure there's absolutely nothing to press unless you take KJC. Even if you take the talent, the uptime is only 13% at the best.

 

 

KJC was MASSIVELY overpowered, the change from ToT to SoO did some to fix this but not totally. Warlocks spent years without KJC, we will make do with a watered down version and imo should be thankful we kept it at all. I personally totally assumed that Blizz would remove it before WoD, so I'm glad to have a version of it in any form.

 

FelFlame I am still hopeful will come back, but I think it won't. The loss of it will be felt for sure, mechanically and in DPS.

 

KJC uptime isn't the goal, using it wisely is. Knowing when to use it and when to save it will push the gap between the good and the bad. Same with AD.

 

 

Demonology was a fine spec until ToT got out and the UVLS appeared. This of course made Blizzard nerf both the trinket and Demonology as a spec. Since playing demonology at an optimal level required a lot of planning and thinking in MoP, Blizzard decided to put into WoD another spell for Demonology warlock with clumsy mechanics, just to make you think about your execution that little bit more. Luckyly, it turns out that Demonbolt won't be better single-target dps than AOE talent Cataclysm.

 

UVLS and Ghost Crawler can blow me, I will no joke curse GC to his face for the moronic blunder and insult afterward of UVLS. But since he left Blizz, I don't think that opportunity will present itself.   

 

Blizz has no idea what it is doing with DB, and the numbers haven't been fixed yet in any way. So being mad that it sucks is premature. I think there is a good chance that it will suck in 6.0, but I think it will be fixed and sort of fun by 6.1 - either through hot fixes or 6.1 patch change. I think the idea is good, now that they are in their 3rd or 4th mechanic change to the talent, but the numbers need to be messed with.

 

 

 

 

Overall, I'm not happy with the changes to warlocks as presented in WoD so far. I think the class was very well designed in MoP and didn't need any playstyle changes at all. With the exception of snapshotting that was causing balance problems of course, but this problem seems to be solved once and for all. I think that it was quite obvious that the MoP warlock redesign was thoroughly discussed with top warlock players like Shinafae from Blood Legion or Sparkuggz from Method, since the specs were easy to learn, hard to master and - most of all - fun to play.

 

The playstyle changes to the class seem to be fun-detrimental, the new talent tier uninspired at best. It makes me wonder:

Do they look at the big picture when they do these class changes?

Do they discuss any of the changes with some actual warlock players?

 

 

Blizz openly ignored class masters in WoD beta and then took their ideas and pretended it was Blizz's idea (I'm thinking Hunters with Kennyloggins, Paladins with Thek, and Rogues with whats-his-face-that-doesnt-play-anymore-but-was-with-Method-I-think). 

 

Conversely, Blizzard has reached out to class leaders this time around and has made major changes based on their input. See these links:

 

http://www.icy-veins.com/forums/topic/5699-mage-warlords-of-draenor-alpha-patch-notes-analysis/

 

http://www.icy-veins.com/forums/topic/5740-rogue-warlords-of-draenor-alpha-patch-notes-analysis/

 

http://www.icy-veins.com/forums/topic/5648-paladin-warlords-of-draenor-alpha-patch-notes-analysis/

 

http://www.icy-veins.com/forums/topic/5619-shaman-warlords-of-draenor-alpha-patch-notes-analysis/

 

http://www.icy-veins.com/forums/topic/5584-druid-warlords-of-draenor-alpha-patch-notes-analysis/

 

http://www.icy-veins.com/forums/topic/5552-warlock-warlords-of-draenor-alpha-patch-notes-analysis/

 

http://www.icy-veins.com/forums/topic/5530-priest-warlords-of-draenor-alpha-patch-notes-analysis/

 

http://www.icy-veins.com/forums/topic/5513-monk-warlords-of-draenor-alpha-patch-notes-analysis/

 

http://www.icy-veins.com/forums/topic/5500-warrior-warlords-of-draenor-alpha-patch-notes-analysis/

 

http://www.icy-veins.com/forums/topic/5484-hunter-warlords-of-draenor-alpha-patch-notes-analysis/

 

http://www.icy-veins.com/forums/topic/5437-death-knight-warlords-of-draenor-alpha-patch-notes-analysis/

 

 

 

Change is change. Some change you won't like, some change you will. This happens every patch, every xpack. Nothing new. Just bare with it and hold on. If you get scared, place your head between your knees to kiss your ass good bye. But know that the sky isn't falling yet.

 

AFTER the major numbers tuning and AFTER the first two weeks of WoD hotfixes that always happen after an xpack is released is when we will know if we're boned or not.

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Ad KJC from Locky:

 

I won't deny that the initial implementation of KJC when we were able to cast anything all the time was OP. On the other hand, being able to cast your filler on the move doesn't sound too OP to me considering the removal of Fel Flame. Every other caster (except shammy) has something to cast on the move as well as talents to improve mobility further. I don't see why warlocks should be left out.

 

I'm also not buying that argument that warlocks didn't have anything like KJC before and that means that we can now live happily ever after without anything like that again. The game has evolved. The game mechanics have evolved. Playing turret-mode is not a viable option anymore, we need something in our toolset to be able to deal with the new situations.

 

I'm not saying that the current imlementation of KJC is the only way to go, but there definatelly has to be something for you to do while you move. Running around and having nothing to press is really frustrating.

Edited by chrisdux

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One more thing I found out and that disappointed me deeply is that as a EU player, I cannot share my thoughts in official Blizzard WoD Beta Warlock forums. It's US only. To me, it translates that EU players are considered inferior, because their feedback is not wanted. Like it wasn't enough that we pay higher monthly subscription fee.

Is there any other way to give my feedback directly to Blizzard? Is there some warlock class designer listening to feedback on Twitter or something?

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No, but you can make a US trial account I believe, and make a level 1 on a realm.

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One more thing I found out and that disappointed me deeply is that as a EU player, I cannot share my thoughts in official Blizzard WoD Beta Warlock forums. It's US only. To me, it translates that EU players are considered inferior, because their feedback is not wanted. Like it wasn't enough that we pay higher monthly subscription fee.

Is there any other way to give my feedback directly to Blizzard? Is there some warlock class designer listening to feedback on Twitter or something?

You took that way out of context because you think they are outing EU as a whole.

EU has their own forums as well that a lot of devs read through as well as get info from other blizzard workers around the world even if it's not in a official "beta specific" thread. The feedback is heard, you just need to say it.

The reason you can't post on the forums for US is the same reason you can't play on US realms without a new account. It's a technical limitation with their hardware/software.

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Ad KJC from Locky:

 

I won't deny that the initial implementation of KJC when we were able to cast anything all the time was OP. On the other hand, being able to cast your filler on the move doesn't sound too OP to me considering the removal of Fel Flame. Every other caster (except shammy) has something to cast on the move as well as talents to improve mobility further. I don't see why warlocks should be left out.

 

I'm also not buying that argument that warlocks didn't have anything like KJC before and that means that we can now live happily ever after without anything like that again. The game has evolved. The game mechanics have evolved. Playing turret-mode is not a viable option anymore, we need something in our toolset to be able to deal with the new situations.

 

I'm not saying that the current imlementation of KJC is the only way to go, but there definatelly has to be something for you to do while you move. Running around and having nothing to press is really frustrating.

We, too, have things to cast on the move.  Destruction has Conflagrate, Rain of Fire, and Shadowburn if within execute phase.  Demonology has the lead with Doom, Corruption, Life Tap, and Touch of Chaos while in Meta.  Affliction has Corruption, Life Tap, and Soul Swap.  I'm not sure what you mean when you say you move around with nothing to cast...

 

KJC has been more of a comfort food this expansion as we've gotten comfortable being incredibly mobile which is overpowered as all hell.  KJC NEEDED nerfed.  Skilled Warlocks will learn to save charges of Conflagrate or use Life Tap during periods of movement which should equate to no DPS lost while moving.  Even if there is some loss in movement, that's to be expected.  EVERY class has something to cast while moving.  The skilled players will find opportune times to use these abilities in order to boost their DPS while others flail trying to get reacclimated to not being able to freely cast and move.

 

The toolkit you describe should include DBM and your brain.  Every single Warlock has the same 'toolkit' in terms of abilties to use.  Where Warlocks differ is HOW they use their toolkit.  Warlocks who also think ahead, plan their movement, and time certain abilities for maximum effect are the Warlocks who stand out.  "Turret" mode isn't the most accurate way to describe what we will be in WoD.  Partially mobile weapons of mass destruction has a nicer ring to it.

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I think that it was quite obvious that the MoP warlock redesign was thoroughly discussed with top warlock players like Shinafae from Blood Legion or Sparkuggz from Method, since the specs were easy to learn, hard to master and - most of all - fun to play.

 

The playstyle changes to the class seem to be fun-detrimental, the new talent tier uninspired at best. It makes me wonder:

 

Other than Demonbolt (i feel your pain on that one), are the specs really that different in WoD?  The level 100 talents just add a little extra flavor.  Our rotations are pretty much the same.  Therefore, is playing a Warlock no longer fun cause they changed KJC and removed dot snapshotting?  

 

I don't mind having to plan movements, and i think it adds to the skillcap.  Hunters provide a raid KJC CD now, and we have our own CD to help.

Edited by Hurtlocker

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You took that way out of context because you think they are outing EU as a whole.

EU has their own forums as well that a lot of devs read through as well as get info from other blizzard workers around the world even if it's not in a official "beta specific" thread. The feedback is heard, you just need to say it.

The reason you can't post on the forums for US is the same reason you can't play on US realms without a new account. It's a technical limitation with their hardware/software.

 

I'll be honest and say that I see no need for the forums to be separated into regions, like the WoW in EU is a different game from the WoW in US. I'd admit that there's some logic to having technical support divided by regions since it can happen that there is a technical issue affecting server housing in US that EU doesn't need to be concerned with or vice versa.

About developers carefully reading trough the forums... well, US forums maybe. Seeing a blue post on EU forum is probably as common as winning a million dollar poker pot. Sure it can happen, but the odds...

 

If it were possible to give feedback via Twitter, I'd be happier than trying to circumvent the limitations of Blizzard systems by creating some trial accounts in the US.

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If it were possible to give feedback via Twitter, I'd be happier than trying to circumvent the limitations of Blizzard systems by creating some trial accounts in the US.

 

Plenty of people provide feedback through Twitter, albeit, you have to be able to get to the point since there is a character limit.  I don't think Blizzard limits themselves to only using blizzard forums as the only source of feedback, but it is more convenient for them..  

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We, too, have things to cast on the move.  Destruction has Conflagrate, Rain of Fire, and Shadowburn if within execute phase.  Demonology has the lead with Doom, Corruption, Life Tap, and Touch of Chaos while in Meta.  Affliction has Corruption, Life Tap, and Soul Swap.  I'm not sure what you mean when you say you move around with nothing to cast...

 

KJC has been more of a comfort food this expansion as we've gotten comfortable being incredibly mobile which is overpowered as all hell.  KJC NEEDED nerfed.  Skilled Warlocks will learn to save charges of Conflagrate or use Life Tap during periods of movement which should equate to no DPS lost while moving.  Even if there is some loss in movement, that's to be expected.  EVERY class has something to cast while moving.  The skilled players will find opportune times to use these abilities in order to boost their DPS while others flail trying to get reacclimated to not being able to freely cast and move.

 

The toolkit you describe should include DBM and your brain.  Every single Warlock has the same 'toolkit' in terms of abilties to use.  Where Warlocks differ is HOW they use their toolkit.  Warlocks who also think ahead, plan their movement, and time certain abilities for maximum effect are the Warlocks who stand out.  "Turret" mode isn't the most accurate way to describe what we will be in WoD.  Partially mobile weapons of mass destruction has a nicer ring to it.

 

If I remember correctly, it was you Mr. Zagam who suggested that Fel Flame should stay. I thought we are basically on the same wave here, since I'm not saying that KJC must stay as it is right now on live, but just saying that we should have some more movement cast options to be on-par with other rdps classes.

 

Maybe I haven't put the words carefully enough, but the main idea was there should be something for you that's dps-wise beneficial to cast on the move. If you can plan your movement, then I agree that even with the current toolset, the problem would have a solution. If you could plan your movement. How do you plan your movement on fights like Siegecrafter? Only thing you can do there is to save your CDs for those few stand-still phases and hope you won't be targetted with sawblades, lasers etc...

 

If you were doing Siegecrafter with WoD warlock and got targetted, you'd have these options:

Destruction) you might have saved 1 conflag, maybe place a RoF... then you're done, nothing else to do until you stopped moving or regained another charge of conflag.

 

Affliction) you may recast corruption and agony, which is a dps increase if the DOTs ofc needed refreshing. Done

 

Demonology) If you have enough fury, you may go Meta, which ofc may not be optimal if you needed to save the fury for later burn. If you don't have enough fury, you may recast corruption.

 

In the end, even the current KJC WoD beta talent might be "required" to prevent these 0-dps situations, which is I believe something that goes against Blizzard's idea of no cookie-cutter builds. In that case, it would make sense to make KJC baseline.

 

My point is that even though a skilled player will probably find a way to minimaze the movement and try to save at least something for the movement phases, it can very easily happen even to the best players that they will end up moving without having anything to cast that would be beneficial. The only other rdps that might end up in this position is, at least with the current WoD beta state, the ele shammy. Every other class has something to prevent themselves ending in a situation like this.

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Plenty of people provide feedback through Twitter, albeit, you have to be able to get to the point since there is a character limit.  I don't think Blizzard limits themselves to only using blizzard forums as the only source of feedback, but it is more convenient for them..  

 

I understand that using Twitter has it's limitations, on the other hand being brief might be positive in this case. Whom would you suggest to contact regarding warlock feedback? Oh, and thanks for the help, it's appreciated.

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Other than Demonbolt (i feel your pain on that one), are the specs really that different in WoD?  The level 100 talents just add a little extra flavor.  Our rotations are pretty much the same.  Therefore, is playing a Warlock no longer fun cause they changed KJC and removed dot snapshotting?  

 

I don't mind having to plan movements, and i think it adds to the skillcap.  Hunters provide a raid KJC CD now, and we have our own CD to help.

 

Well, the specs on the paper seem very similar to current live specs, but ingame it feels different.

 

Affliction is now the yawn spec, where you apply your corruption, agony, UA and then channel DS forever more with brief pauses when you gain a shard which makes you cast Haunt.

 

Destruction is the same pretty much, but the hit to mobility is making this spec very fight dependent. If you can stay in turret mode, then you'll be having blasts of fun with AOE CB. So far I haven't seen many fights like that, but that may not be final. If you have to move more often then what you can compensate for by the nerfed KJC, then you'll probably choose a different spec (provided after balancing there are more viable specs).

 

Demonology might be the spec that feels quite the same under the condition that you won't take Demonbolt.  If you take it, it's a completely different story, at least from my point of view.

 

Btw. I really think that the mentioned hunter raid CD will go away. Otherwise I can clearly see those guilds chasing after world firsts stacking hunters just for this one reason. Blizzard claims they want you to "bring the player, not the class", so this would seem like a step in the opposite direction. I don't believe this idea can stay ingame when WoD goes live.

Edited by chrisdux

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Its slowly coming together.  I think a lot of us are frustrated because its literally been crickets up to this point on Lock adjustments with clearly unfinished talents having no input from devs for weeks at a time.  

 

Starting to see the light with Cataclysm after the buff, Servitude Pet abilities seem sexy and pet "roles" appropriate.... and while i still detest Chaotic Resources and Demon Bolt, we are starting to see some changes to bring them in line.

 

One of the bigger gripes of limited talent choices for Destro given conflict of GoSac and Servitude sounds like its in the minds of the devs... so there is light there... however it remains to be seen if they can figure something out that doesn't spin this 360 and make it something you always want to pair with GoSac, alienating the other two lvl 100 talents.

 

I have not liked any implementation of DemonBolt yet, but at least it doesn't drastically change the playstyle of the spec by forcing you to manage fury differently like the first iteration.

 

Chaotic Resources can go fuck off, stupidest idea ever.  AoE Chaos bolt is fun to see but not worth what it does to the single target rotation.  Weaving double ember and single ember F&B spells is annoying to maintain with only 4 embers, especially on less targets where Havoc CB is more dmg than AoE CB.   I do not think a talent should have that drastic a swing on how a spec plays.  You go from pooling precious resources and skillfully gaming Havoc & Shadowburn to buff ember income to just not giving a fuck and casting CB every other spell.  Its such a stupid idea.

 

I have not liked Affliction since Shadowbolt was replaced as the filler so I really am indifferent to any changes there since Tri Spec is not a thing and I wont be speccing it unless its brokenly OP, which seems to not be the case.

 

Overall, I am worried that CR will be the single target talent.. and I do not want to play Destro with current version of CR.  So far Demonology seems like it will play fairly close to how it currently plays, even if DemonBolt is required for pure single target.  I am really excited for how Demo and Cataclysm synergize right now and hope its not nerfed too hard when its nerfed.

 

GoSyn is a cool idea, I like it.

 

Destro is the only spec I am worried about for movement.  Lifetap was always the go to for movement before KJC was a thing which it no longer has.

 

I am mad they removed all our curses, I do a LOT of world farming on my lock and tagging/pulling with CoE was key to doing this efficiently, however RoF still does the job just fine... for 3-4 cast before ooming.

 

So far on the full raid buff dummy testing I find Destro ooming single target around the 50 second mark on the 1min darksoul cycle which has me concerned, looks like we will have to use at least some haste gear initially until ember generation is high enough to cast a cb or two between ember dumps give time for mana to regen.

 

This post is like one long run on sentence of random thoughts.. lol

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Its slowly coming together.  I think a lot of us are frustrated because its literally been crickets up to this point on Lock adjustments with clearly unfinished talents having no input from devs for weeks at a time.  

 

Starting to see the light with Cataclysm after the buff, Servitude Pet abilities seem sexy and pet "roles" appropriate.... and while i still detest Chaotic Resources and Demon Bolt, we are starting to see some changes to bring them in line.

 

One of the bigger gripes of limited talent choices for Destro given conflict of GoSac and Servitude sounds like its in the minds of the devs... so there is light there... however it remains to be seen if they can figure something out that doesn't spin this 360 and make it something you always want to pair with GoSac, alienating the other two lvl 100 talents.

 

I have not liked any implementation of DemonBolt yet, but at least it doesn't drastically change the playstyle of the spec by forcing you to manage fury differently like the first iteration.

 

Chaotic Resources can go fuck off, stupidest idea ever.  AoE Chaos bolt is fun to see but not worth what it does to the single target rotation.  Weaving double ember and single ember F&B spells is annoying to maintain with only 4 embers, especially on less targets where Havoc CB is more dmg than AoE CB.   I do not think a talent should have that drastic a swing on how a spec plays.  You go from pooling precious resources and skillfully gaming Havoc & Shadowburn to buff ember income to just not giving a fuck and casting CB every other spell.  Its such a stupid idea.

 

I have not liked Affliction since Shadowbolt was replaced as the filler so I really am indifferent to any changes there since Tri Spec is not a thing and I wont be speccing it unless its brokenly OP, which seems to not be the case.

 

Overall, I am worried that CR will be the single target talent.. and I do not want to play Destro with current version of CR.  So far Demonology seems like it will play fairly close to how it currently plays, even if DemonBolt is required for pure single target.  I am really excited for how Demo and Cataclysm synergize right now and hope its not nerfed too hard when its nerfed.

 

GoSyn is a cool idea, I like it.

 

Destro is the only spec I am worried about for movement.  Lifetap was always the go to for movement before KJC was a thing which it no longer has.

 

I am mad they removed all our curses, I do a LOT of world farming on my lock and tagging/pulling with CoE was key to doing this efficiently, however RoF still does the job just fine... for 3-4 cast before ooming.

 

So far on the full raid buff dummy testing I find Destro ooming single target around the 50 second mark on the 1min darksoul cycle which has me concerned, looks like we will have to use at least some haste gear initially until ember generation is high enough to cast a cb or two between ember dumps give time for mana to regen.

 

This post is like one long run on sentence of random thoughts.. lol

 

I can't agree more with your view of Affliction atm., there's no reason to play the spec unless it ends up OP unbalanced.

 

The first incarnation of T100 playstyle-changing talent for Demonology sounded much more interesting, allowing you to stay in Meta indefinatelly but with reduced damage. That would have been real fun and might have worked pretty well, even though it might have required some extra balancing.

 

I'm not so sure about Life Tap being the ideal DPS increasing spell to cast while moving. If you move for 2 GCD once in 2 minutes then sure, why not. But if you need to keep moving more often, let's say avoiding moving fire-lashes on the ground like once every 15 seconds, I wonder how long would it take the healers to just stop caring about you and letting you Life Tap yourself to death. In my guild, I guess I wouldn't be safe more than 1-2 pulls ;-)

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Warlock (Forums, Talent Calculator)
Talents
Cataclysm (Affliction) Conjures a cataclysm at the target location, dealing [ 375% [ 750% of Spell Power ] Shadowflame damage to all enemies within 0 yards, and applying Agony.

 

The fact that Cata now applies Agony changes the dynamic of the spell a little bit.

 

Does that change any of yalls minds about Afflic and Cata?

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Warlock (Forums, Talent Calculator)

Talents

Cataclysm (Affliction) Conjures a cataclysm at the target location, dealing [ 375% [ 750% of Spell Power ] Shadowflame damage to all enemies within 0 yards, and applying Agony.

 

The fact that Cata now applies Agony changes the dynamic of the spell a little bit.

 

Does that change any of yalls minds about Afflic and Cata?

When you double the spell power coefficient of ANYTHING, we will notice and care.  Applying Agony isn't as fun as Unstable Affliction, but it's better than Corruption. 

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I do, as Cata + SB:Seed would be two casts to effectively soul swap an entire pack of mobs.

 

UA over Agony would def make the talent more favorable for PvP, however.

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UA would make the talent OVERPOWERED as all hell.  Mass silencing anyone on a PvP flag who gets dispelled?  That much dispel protection should be illegal. 

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Warlock (Forums, Talent Calculator)

Talents

Cataclysm (Affliction) Conjures a cataclysm at the target location, dealing [ 375% [ 750% of Spell Power ] Shadowflame damage to all enemies within 0 yards, and applying Agony.

 

The fact that Cata now applies Agony changes the dynamic of the spell a little bit.

 

Does that change any of yalls minds about Afflic and Cata?

 

Balancing the damage of the specs is one thing that of course needs doing. But it's to early to analyze this since the numbers are likely to get changed over and over again. The thing we should be interested in at the moment is the gameplay and mechanics involved. And so far, I must say the warlock changes are unsatisfactory, at least to me. There are issues with all of the specs at the moment that require attention from game developers. I'd feel better if I saw at least some feedback from Blizzard about the concerns expressed not only here, but many other forums, on Twitter and so on.

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I'll be honest and say that I see no need for the forums to be separated into regions, like the WoW in EU is a different game from the WoW in US. I'd admit that there's some logic to having technical support divided by regions since it can happen that there is a technical issue affecting server housing in US that EU doesn't need to be concerned with or vice versa.

About developers carefully reading trough the forums... well, US forums maybe. Seeing a blue post on EU forum is probably as common as winning a million dollar poker pot. Sure it can happen, but the odds...

 

If it were possible to give feedback via Twitter, I'd be happier than trying to circumvent the limitations of Blizzard systems by creating some trial accounts in the US.

 

The forums are the same thing.  They are on servers.  They are separated by sub-domains just like the game is.  Its not possible to combine them like that. On top of that, they wouldn't want it combined because that would jsut make the amount of possible content TOO big.   Having it separated makes it much easier in a logistical sense so they can easily set groups of people for specific regions.

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The forums are the same thing.  They are on servers.  They are separated by sub-domains just like the game is.  Its not possible to combine them like that. On top of that, they wouldn't want it combined because that would jsut make the amount of possible content TOO big.   Having it separated makes it much easier in a logistical sense so they can easily set groups of people for specific regions.

 

I don't believe there are technical limitations that couldn't be dealt with to have one forum for all WoW players. I think the reason for this separation is the good old "Divide and Conquer" strategy. If you keep your playerbases separated, you can always claim that you don't get any strong feelings one way or the other, or that you must have missed that one discussion thread that's saying sometihng you don't like.

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New beta patch has hit the test servers, but still not hint of anything to ease our concerns. Nothing new about affliction spec, mobility issues, fel flame or talents in T90 / T100. I'm really starting to get worried.

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