Mephisto

BM Hunter questions

28 posts in this topic

I just hit 90 with my BM hunter and have a couple of questions.

Firstly I cant work out an opportune time to use Virmens Bite, I havent seen any macros that factor it in .

When I use Serpent Sting maybe as that and Arcane Shot is all I really seem to have that isnt a pet based attack.

The other question is about Rapid Fire and Focus Fire.

Are both only really good for working with Serpent Sting to refresh it time wise as everything else seems to have a very short cast time.

Any help would be greatly aporeciated.

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For the potion: there isn't a macro for it because you are generally using 2-3 seconds before combat starts, and you don't want to lose uptime on the stampede/RF/racials. I wouldn't worry about using potions until you start on flex/normals though unless your an alchemist or have one.

Non-pet based attacks are Arcane, Serpent Sting, and your level 90 talent. BM is a very pet-heavy spec, with roughly 40-50% of your total damage being from your pet.

Rapid and focus fire are important not because of serpent sting (which does not snapshot haste), but because of the increased focus regen you get from them. This lowers the number of cobra shots you need to cast and thus raises your cpm.

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I would suggest reading the guide on Icy Veins for BM hunters. It is currently up to date and will give you all the information you need. If there is anything specific you want to know just respond to this post.

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Thanks guys, I did read the BM guide here first but didn't see any mention of potion usage.

Usually most classes have a dps macro that includes a potion whether it's an opening sequence or just for a dps boost.

I didn't know Rapid Fire was a focus regeneration tool, I thought only Focus Fire did so my bad.

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Thanks guys, I did read the BM guide here first but didn't see any mention of potion usage.

Usually most classes have a dps macro that includes a potion whether it's an opening sequence or just for a dps boost.

I didn't know Rapid Fire was a focus regeneration tool, I thought only Focus Fire did so my bad.

You can include a potion in your opening macro (which casts stampede, rapid fire, synapse springs, and any racials you may or may not have).  I don't because I use my macro after I enter combat (and my potion before my pre-cast aimed shot on MM).  For BM you want to use a potion during the gcd where your glaives are flying toward the boss because you are not yet in combat, and thus won't trigger the lockout.  

Rapid Fire's main use is to accelerate the regeneration of your focus, and it works quite well (and even more so for MM).  

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Thanks mate, I mainly use Focus Fire and Rapid Fire to refresh Serpent Sting with Cobra Shot, sometimes Focus fire for the Focus regen but thats about it.

Works a treat when Serpent Sting is down to about 4  or 5 seconds and Focus fire is up.

I'll try a potion with my Glaives as I cast them, see how it goes.

Just as a side note, Survival seems to be better dps than MM for an off spec?

I see RogerBrown who wrote the guide uses both these specs instead of BM which is interesting as BM is supposed to have the better dps of all three.

Thanks for the feedback guys.

Edited by Mephisto

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Thanks mate, I mainly use Focus Fire and Rapid Fire to refresh Serpent Sting with Cobra Shot, sometimes Focus fire for the Focus regen but thats about it.

Works a treat when Serpent Sting is down to about 4  or 5 seconds and Focus fire is up.

 

This is not the correct use of Focus Fire. You want to use Focus Fire on cooldown, unless you're about to cast Bestial Wrath because you won't utilize the haste as well as your pet.

 

Rapid Fire should be used on cooldown.

 

Haste is your best stat, so your Cobra Shot will already be decently fast. 

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At a lower ilvl, yes SV will do better than MM.  However, I've been playing MM to a level where I believe that MM and SV can and will do roughly equal dps after around 540.  Then again, I went for a heavy haste build for 540-now so that I can reach a point where casting Aimed Shot becomes fluid enough that I don't need any more haste (~13500).  And as for BM being the best, that is under proper play and utilization of cooldowns.  As I'm nowhere near perfect, my dps as BM (my current OS despite what the armory says) is just slightly better than my dps as MM.  

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If I go by AMR MM ( 310008 )  works out to be better for me at my current ilvl than BM ( 306495 ) and that's at a 538 ilvl.
I played MM for quite sometime (TBC-CATA ) as it's my favorite spec but I wanted a change so I'm rolling BM and really enjoying it far more than I thought I would. As far as whats the best dps spec goes play whatever spec you enjoy the most that way you'll get the full enjoyment outta the class and in doing so I'd bet you'll preform better ( dps ) because of it .For me the FOTM dps spec can send you chasing as I should know I've done it and never really played a full x-pac with a main and I feel my raiding has suffered for it
 

Rogerbrown hates BM so he doesn't do guides for it.

IF RogerBrown didn't write the BM guide then who did ,  it states it was reviewed and approved by him in all 3 of the guides not that its a big deal its still a usefull guides no matter who wrote them

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He only reviews the info posted there, he doesn't write it.

 

I was going to be a reviewer of the hunter guides as well and sent a bunch of corrections to Vlad (who maintains them) but they were never added. Guess I ain't good 'nuff.

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Letting Focus Fire build up to 5 stacks will increase your pet's attack speed - not a bad thing for a BM hunter. When you use FF, it removes your pet's attack speed buff (Frenzy).

Edited by Lunaboreal

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He only reviews the info posted there, he doesn't write it.

 

I was going to be a reviewer of the hunter guides as well and sent a bunch of corrections to Vlad (who maintains them) but they were never added. Guess I ain't good 'nuff.

Ok, I'm curious, what corrections would you make?

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Letting Focus Fire build up to 5 stacks will increase your pet's attack speed - not a bad thing for a BM hunter. When you use FF, it removes your pet's attack speed buff (Frenzy).

 

But you get a sizeable 30% haste buff for 20 seconds, very comparable to Bloodlust, and also gives you pet a shot of focus.

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Hmm some interesting stuff about the guide, who did write it then?

Out of interest I just got Skoll, is there a preferred pet of choice for BM?

I find the extra Mastery he provides to be more than good.

Also I havent levelled any trades yet, was waiting for the expansion, does anyone know if Engineering is still the way to go in WoD or is there going to be one of the other trades come up with something more beneficial?

thanks again.

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Hmm some interesting stuff about the guide, who did write it then?

Out of interest I just got Skoll, is there a preferred pet of choice for BM?

I find the extra Mastery he provides to be more than good.

Also I havent levelled any trades yet, was waiting for the expansion, does anyone know if Engineering is still the way to go in WoD or is there going to be one of the other trades come up with something more beneficial?

thanks again.

 

In a 10m using whatever pet provides a missing buff that your raid needs is the way to go. There is a guide on which pets provide which buffs, so I won't go into too much detail. 

 

I have these 5 pets with me at all times, unless I'm soloing Lich King, then I bring a bloodlust.

 

Wolf - Crit Chance

Spore Bat - Spell Haste

Hyena - Melee Haste

Tall Strider - AoE Armor Debuff

Spirit Beast - Mastery / Self Heal

 

I will occasionally switch out the spirit beast for just a cat to continue to provide mastery. I just make sure I have the big three with me. Haste, Mastery and Crit.

 

To answer your second question, professions in WoD are being almost entirely taken out of the raiding process. They will no longer provide any usefulness from a damage perspective. Currently, Engineering and Leatherworking is what I'm using, but Enchanting, Jewelcrafting and Blacksmithing will provide an equal alternative. I just prefer Leatherworking because I can make gear for myself.

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So just out of interest, do you get the benefit of those pet buffs from all 5 pets during the 20 seconds Stampede is active?

Or only when you have one out with you at a time?

I've never really considered that one before, I've basically just recruited wolves and cats just because they are part of the Ferocity family.

Spell Haste would be more beneficial than Melee Haste?

Edited by Mephisto

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Pets summoned by stampede only melee their target, so no, they don't cast their buffs. And any pet can be ferocity spec, as you can change that yourself. And lastly, spell haste is useful on 10 man or flex where you may into have a boom kin or spriest to provide the buff.

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Ok, I'm curious, what corrections would you make?

 

Copypaste of my mail to Vlad:

 

http://www.icy-veins.com/wow/beast-mastery-hunter-pve-dps-statistics-priority-reforging
 
You can honestly just remove the part where it says it is a benefit to keep them close to each other, because it isn't. There's not really much else to not about the Haste > Mastery > Crit reforge prio other than some advanced stuff with haste "caps" in very specific situations.
 
 
Depending on how complicated you wanna make it, you should/can use Focus Fire during BW if 19 the alternative would be Cobra Shot and 2) if BW has more than 3 secs remaining. Focus Fire guaranteed a 100%+ damage Basic Attack from the pet, and it has a cooldown of 3 seconds. The damage gained from guaranteeing this is bigger than the damage of a Cobra Shot.
 
The same goes for Ticking Ebon Detonator procs.
 
The note of stacking Rabid with Bestial Wrath is true, but in reality, it will never really happen (with 574 Assurance of Consequence at least), because you'd have to delay Bestial Wrath to get the stacking going, which means not getting BW during AoC, which is a bigger loss than the gain of stacking it with Rabid.
 
Stampede can be nicely delayed on any fight with a 4:20 killtime or more, because that means you can overlap it with your Assurance of Consequence proc for maximum benefit.
 
You should make note of the Tallstrider pet in the AoE pet section (tho it's not direct AoE), but it uses Dust Cloud which spreads 3 stacks of Armor Reduction to all targets within 10 yards. It's an awesome pet to use when all the raid buffs are covered otherwise. The Spirit Beast self-heal is good too, depends if you have healing trouble/will be outta healer range.
 
 
The multi-target rotation at 5+ targets should still have Kill Command if you can afford it because it is still way more damage than Multi-Shot (Multi-Shot outdamages Kill Command at 9 targets or more), so you should still use Kill Command, but keeping Beast Cleave up is a priority.

I have an AoE/Cleave "guide" on here: http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/1532407-Hunter-F-A-Q-Answers for both specs. That theorycraft is very recent and based on DPE, DPET and DPF of all the different abilities involved.

 
Opening rotation should be:
 
30-yard range (ideally):

Pre-cast Glaive Toss at 1.5s on the pulltimer

Serpent Sting to follow up (they'll land at roughly the same time because 30 yard range)
Stampede + Rapid Fire + Everything else except Bestial Wrath

Bestial Wrath + Kill Command

Dire Beast
 
And proceed. The reason we precast Glaive Toss is that it doesn't engage combat till it lands, and because of how it hits twice, it has a double-chance of proccing your Dextrous trinket.
 
Like you say, it's not a huge impact, but increasing your chances of getting off those trinket procs is ALWAYS a good thing because that will largely determine your DPS by the end.
 
In the macros section, I would add that you should macro /petattack to Dire Beast and Stampede (after the line that casts them), because sometimes the Assist flag activates a bit late on them, and you might find them running back towards you until you hit the boss for a few seconds, losing you uptime on both.

#showtooltip Dire Beast
/use [combat] 10
/cast Dire Beast
/cast [combat] Rabid
/cast [combat] Lifeblood
/cast Heart of the Phoenix
/petattack

I might send another mail with more, but that's it for now.

 
There are honestly many more than that I've found after the fact.
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I was really interested in the macro's as there doesn't seem to be to many around.
Are there others that are beneficial, any extra dps or less downtime is always a good thing.

Focus regen is something Iam finding in SoO to be an issue, at times Iam just casting auto shot while Iam waiting for something to cast due to lack of focus.
I try and keep haste and mastery on an even keel but Iam thinking of bulking up on haste a little more.
I guess this is more of a tweaking of my rotation than anything else.

Also with glyphs I've noticed not many take the Iron Hawk one, instead Spirit Bond is chosen.
In a raid situation is that really viable?
Also Azor what is the Stampede glyph you mentioned in your guide?

Lastly use my Valor points to upgrade my weapon first, I'am using Hisek's Reserve Longbow.
I read the Advanced guide, thanks for the link mate.

Edited by Mephisto

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The Stampede minor glyph that makes copies of your current pet for Stampede instead of spawning your 5 active pets.

 

You cannot be "focus starved" as a hunter since you generate it yourself with Cobra Shot for the most part. You should never have dead time. Ever.

 

I think you're confusing talents and glyphs..? ;P

 

You should be Iron Hawk specced for everything but Siegecrafter belt duty where the passive healing from Spirit Bond is pretty big.

 

No particular macros, just have /petattack in the last line of your Dire Beast and Stampede ones.

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The Stampede minor glyph that makes copies of your current pet for Stampede instead of spawning your 5 active pets.

 

You cannot be "focus starved" as a hunter since you generate it yourself with Cobra Shot for the most part. You should never have dead time. Ever.

 

I think you're confusing talents and glyphs..? ;P

 

You should be Iron Hawk specced for everything but Siegecrafter belt duty where the passive healing from Spirit Bond is pretty big.

 

No particular macros, just have /petattack in the last line of your Dire Beast and Stampede ones.

 

A few macros I've found handy just for quality of life are these two right here.

 

#showtooltip

/cast Kill Command

/petattack [target=target]

 

#showtooltip

/cast Bestial Wrath

/cast Kill Command

/cast petattack [target=target]

 

I made them a while ago, during ToT when I played BM because I had an issue where my pet would attack it's current target before assist had a chance to make it change to mine. So it just helped me manage pet movement a little easier.

 

I'd never heard of the Dire Beast and Stampede macros, I will definitely be adding the Stampede one for SV.

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No not confused between glyphs and talents, this is from your guide:

--

Q: Why is that other hunter's pet doing way more auto attacks/auto attack damage than mine?

You're not using Stampede glyph, he is, meaning his Stampede pet damage + attacks gets rolled into that main pet.

--

I thought that glyph was cosmetic only.

It was stated in this thread all pets in Stampede do melee damage only so how would this glyph be a damage increase?

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I thought that glyph was cosmetic only.

It was stated in this thread all pets in Stampede do melee damage only so how would this glyph be a damage increase?

Nobody said that the glyph is a damage increase.  I use it to reduce a bit of clutter in skada and WCL since it merges the stampede attacks in with my main pet's melee.  

 

@Azor:

I would tend to disagree about Iron Hawk vs Spirit Bond, but to each their own.  For the normals and flex runs I do, Spirit Bond heals for more than what Iron Hawk would protect me from.  In heroics, yes, I would likely go with Iron Hawk since the damage is much greater.

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