Zagam

Warlock 6.0 Transition Guide

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How have you felt about Glyph of Dark Soul in each spec?

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Nice writeup/summary, thank you Zag!

 

Even though Demo is empty/lacking without Demonbolt, I am wondering if I am wrong in thinking that it will be a better pick than destruction for any big/heavy movement fights, and just how much loss of dps there is without Demonbolt.  :/

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How have you felt about Glyph of Dark Soul in each spec?

Essential for Demonology.  Meh for the other two.  Demo has 60 second burst intervals which makes this glyph nice.  We will not, however, have it for 6.0 because the materials needed to craft it come from Warlords herbs which we will not have access to.

 

Nice writeup/summary, thank you Zag!

 

Even though Demo is empty/lacking without Demonbolt, I am wondering if I am wrong in thinking that it will be a better pick than destruction for any big/heavy movement fights, and just how much loss of dps there is without Demonbolt.  :/

Touch of Chaos got banged hard.  It's really lackluster hitting for less than Shadowbolt.  Even with a high Mastery build, ToC is still crap, so it's not so much a movement spec as it is just another DPS spec now.  My testing showed Demo on par with Destruction and Affliction if it was using Cataclysm of Demonic Servitude.  However, with Demonbolt, it pulled a good bit ahead.  Right now, it's just too simplistic without snapshotting.  If you keep HoG up and your DoTs, you only have three decisions - use Shadowbolt, use Soul Fire, or use Metamorphosis.  If you use Metamorphosis, you have 1 decision - use Soul Fire.  I'll know more when the first week happens and I see lots of data, but my early inclination is that Demo and Destro will be very close and Aff will be behind.

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I think for 6.0 you'll be best suited to stick with the unglyphed dark soul thanks to still having PBI. I'll be pairing it with AD or MF depending on the fight for Demo, and likely AD all the way for Destro.

I won't be going anywhere near Affliction.

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Thanks for the write up, So come 6.0 you think Destro build be more Crit > Mastery > Haste? and Demo is?

 

I just started trying to relearn Demo to see if I can get it down or 70% down before my raid this Sat/Sun

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I think for 6.0 you'll be best suited to stick with the unglyphed dark soul thanks to still having PBI. I'll be pairing it with AD or MF depending on the fight for Demo, and likely AD all the way for Destro.

I won't be going anywhere near Affliction.

Can't glyph it in 6.0 anyways.  I gotta make sure people see this.  YOU CANNOT GLYPH DARK SOUL FOR 6.0!!!

 

Thanks for the write up, So come 6.0 you think Destro build be more Crit > Mastery > Haste? and Demo is?

 

I just started trying to relearn Demo to see if I can get it down or 70% down before my raid this Sat/Sun

I never said Crit would overtake Mastery.  I said it might overtake Haste since you get 5% more.  Mastery should still be king regardless of spec.  I'm pretty sure you mentioned that you're still progressing - do not try to take Demonology into a progression setting, ESPECIALLY if you haven't mastered it.  You'll be hurting yourself and your raid group. 

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Can't glyph it in 6.0 anyways.  I gotta make sure people see this.  YOU CANNOT GLYPH DARK SOUL FOR 6.0!!!

 

I never said Crit would overtake Mastery.  I said it might overtake Haste since you get 5% more.  Mastery should still be king regardless of spec.  I'm pretty sure you mentioned that you're still progressing - do not try to take Demonology into a progression setting, ESPECIALLY if you haven't mastered it.  You'll be hurting yourself and your raid group. 

 

Yeah i miss read. If I do Demo for my raid it will ONLY be on non-heroic fights that are snooze fest for us. Those fights would be all the ones after general. as first 8 bosses we do on heroic. IJ and General are the ones we have yet to beat. General we only did one pull, but we been trying to get IJ. we got the dps to push him hard, but fail on Seige mode as shock pushes and non-stop aoe damage just eats us.

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Touch of Chaos got banged hard.  It's really lackluster hitting for less than Shadowbolt.  Even with a high Mastery build, ToC is still crap, so it's not so much a movement spec as it is just another DPS spec now.  My testing showed Demo on par with Destruction and Affliction if it was using Cataclysm of Demonic Servitude.  However, with Demonbolt, it pulled a good bit ahead.  Right now, it's just too simplistic without snapshotting.  If you keep HoG up and your DoTs, you only have three decisions - use Shadowbolt, use Soul Fire, or use Metamorphosis.  If you use Metamorphosis, you have 1 decision - use Soul Fire.  I'll know more when the first week happens and I see lots of data, but my early inclination is that Demo and Destro will be very close and Aff will be behind.

 

*nod* I know ToC is pretty worthless, the only extra movement I was really thinking of was Demonic Leap.  *shrug*

 

*sigh* sounds like Demo is going to need the T100 talents in order to keep up on DPS.  (I know you said that it was empty, missing something, just was really wondering how hard of a hit not having those would be on DPS).  Oh well, it is what it is.

Edited by Zilthy

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Have you tested ToC on a multi target or AOE type fight (Maybe the 4 dummy one) to see if that would be better over SF due to the potential for Choas Wave procs?  Not sure if that damage will help ToC's case and Rng will be factor obviously.  

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Have you tested ToC on a multi target or AOE type fight (Maybe the 4 dummy one) to see if that would be better over SF due to the potential for Choas Wave procs?  Not sure if that damage will help ToC's case and Rng will be factor obviously.  

Interesting thought.  Initial feeling is no, wouldn't be worth it to fish for procs.  Here's my napkin math approximation...

 

8% proc rate is pretty low.  You're looking at 1 proc every 12.5 casts.  Knowing that Soul Fire always crits and innately hits for more, ToC would need a higher proc rate to really pull ahead.  That's going to come down to RNGeesus affecting high procs while multiple targets exist.  I could test that tonight, but my thought is that it'll be a poor decision with RNG sometimes bailing you out. 

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So with Affliction out of the loop, would it be safe to essentially aim for Mastery>Haste=Crit for Destro and Demo?

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From what I remember from seeing the SimC results on Beta, Demo will be favouring Mastery followed by Multi Strike/Crit followed by Haste. I believe the loss of snapshotting devalued Haste quite a bit, though I'm no number cruncher so feel free to correct me if that's wrong.

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From what I remember from seeing the SimC results on Beta, Demo will be favouring Mastery followed by Multi Strike/Crit followed by Haste. I believe the loss of snapshotting devalued Haste quite a bit, though I'm no number cruncher so feel free to correct me if that's wrong.

I've seen some t17 sims, but not a lot of 6.02 t16 sims.  It's tricky right now, too, because we can't really obtain multistrike outside of Dark Intent and KTT.  Versatility will only come from a buff, for now.  I'll probably run Demo/Destro with Mastery>Crit>Haste then.

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Besides, I'm saying goodbye to trolls and Welcome to Orcs again.

Belfs will be a good choice too.

 

Btw, with Demo, what's better single target at lvl 90 and lvl 100, Service or Supremacy ?

 

I'm Feeling Supremacy will be more attractive to single target with the Synergy stuff + 2tp

Service may pulls ahead if u can use it everytime with 2+ targets.

 

And, of course, says goodbye to BBOY and welcome to KTT for Demo.

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With the removal of snapshotting, does KTT become the preferred trinket for Demo?

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You can still get a real punch delivered with Soul Fire if you treat Soul Fire as if it was Chaos Bolt.  It depends on the value of Multistrike against Haste since the procs are relatively similar. 

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You can still get a real punch delivered with Soul Fire if you treat Soul Fire as if it was Chaos Bolt.  It depends on the value of Multistrike against Haste since the procs are relatively similar. 

 

MS Looks better in aoe than Haste.

Haste looks cool in Single target since Soulfire it's better than ToC at Metaform.

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Great Summary Zag. Really will appreciate when it comes to 6.0 and the few weeks of raiding we have in it. Long live Demo!

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  • Hand of Gul'dan damage has been increased.  Shadowflame damage has also been increased.  However, Hand of Gul'dan snapshotting, affectionately referred to as HoG weaving, is no longer a thing.  No longer do you have to pop into Metamorphosis to buff your Shadowflame damage.

I'm assuming Shadowflame still stacks up to a max of 2?

+with the increase in damage, it's a big dps loss if you don't make it stack?

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I'm assuming Shadowflame still stacks up to a max of 2?

+with the increase in damage, it's a big dps loss if you don't make it stack?

You got it.  Even with the 2pc bonus when you get an additional charge, it still only stacks to 2.  Optimal use will be to maximize time spent with Shadowflame up, particularly the 2 stack.  You don't want to double cast it to get to 2 right away, but make sure you don't miss the small window to overlap stacks. 

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Two weeks, kids.  PvP season ending announcement out today, so all signs point to 10/14 release date to go into Mythic/6.0. 

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Two weeks, kids.  PvP season ending announcement out today, so all signs point to 10/14 release date to go into Mythic/6.0. 

And all mage theorycrafters are busy finding ways to spread Living Bomb on MC's to kill people during raids.

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I'm back to Demo to remember how to play it properly, 1y since 5.2 I'm sucking at some things, next two weeks will be major to be back on rails.

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Everyone's going to have their back to the rails as they relearn SoO with gimped abilities, removed abilities, and significantly lowered mobility in a raid designed around moderate mobility. 

 

We all will be relearning.  I'll be very busy over the next 2 months haha

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