Subtlety Rogue 6.2

[wixey 3]

The 5.7 Opening Sequence still uses potion > stealth, while the agi pots no longer take you out of stealth.

[Guest Backstabber]

The opening sequence have to be updated hardly due to no combo points can longer be aquired pre-combat.

 

It's stated to open with garrote->shadow reflection->rupture. Please clarify, how many CP you want to use opening rupture, since you will be left with only 1 CP from garrote (probably 2 if hat procced) after opener. It's a total waste to do 1-2cp rupture and getting 5CP to cast it is a lot of wasted shadow reflection damage. 

 

If anyone have a good way to start a rotation, please share

[Guest Ron]

On the opener, do we want to use Ambush at all?

[Guest Ron]

Should we be using Garrote each time we are able when it is not ticking, or only with the opener?

 

 

[Guest Astrinaar]

Great to see that the guide is being updated

There are still a few things that need updating though, I'll mention what I've found.

 

In the opening section, it mentions something about getting combo points before pull from Honor Among Thieves. That is no longer possible as they hotfixed it to only work in combat.

 

In the single target rotation section, it mentions hemo should be refreshed at 7.2 seconds, then later says that rupture should be refreshed at 8 seconds. They both have the same duration, so you should at the very least give the same time for both. The correct time is 7.2 btw. (And 10.8 for SnD, which currently just says "10").

 

In the multi target rotation section, there's a line saying: " (but only after first applying the Crimson Tempest debuff, so Rupture benefit from  Sanguinary Vein)."

This is wrong. Rupture applies Sanguinary Veins itself before it gets to deal damage, meaning there is so difference between a rupture on an already bleeding target, or a target with no current bleeds. The Crimson Tempest bleed helps with Fan of Knives damage, but Crimson Tempest itself benefits from the Sanguinary Veins debuff, as the entirety of it's damage is determined from the instant part of the skill, so at 2-3 enemies I would personally first use rupture on everything before using Crimson Tempest, as the Fan of Knives damage is so low. I have not done any math on whether the debuff should be prioritized for Fan of Knives or Crimson Tempest, but one thing is for sure, it does not help Rupture in any way.

 

[Damien 1,514]

Why garrote in opener?

To trigger Find Weakness all the while saving your Energy for Ambush spamming when Shadow Dance is active.

 

 

The 5.7 Opening Sequence still uses potion > stealth, while the agi pots no longer take you out of stealth.

I swapped the two parts. I guess it's indeed easier that way.

 

 

The opening sequence have to be updated hardly due to no combo points can longer be aquired pre-combat.

 

It's stated to open with garrote->shadow reflection->rupture. Please clarify, how many CP you want to use opening rupture, since you will be left with only 1 CP from garrote (probably 2 if hat procced) after opener. It's a total waste to do 1-2cp rupture and getting 5CP to cast it is a lot of wasted shadow reflection damage. 

 

If anyone have a good way to start a rotation, please share

 

How does it need to be updated? Where do you see a 1-CP Rupture? There's both Garrote and Ambush before you cast Rupture.

 

On the opener, do we want to use Ambush at all?

 

Yes, isn't it written?

 

Should we be using Garrote each time we are able when it is not ticking, or only with the opener?

The guide is very clear on that.

 

 

Great to see that the guide is being updated

There are still a few things that need updating though, I'll mention what I've found.

 

In the opening section, it mentions something about getting combo points before pull from Honor Among Thieves. That is no longer possible as they hotfixed it to only work in combat.

 

In the single target rotation section, it mentions hemo should be refreshed at 7.2 seconds, then later says that rupture should be refreshed at 8 seconds. They both have the same duration, so you should at the very least give the same time for both. The correct time is 7.2 btw. (And 10.8 for SnD, which currently just says "10").

 

In the multi target rotation section, there's a line saying: " (but only after first applying the Crimson Tempest debuff, so Rupture benefit from [/size]

 Sanguinary Vein[/size])."[/size]

This is wrong. Rupture applies Sanguinary Veins itself before it gets to deal damage, meaning there is so difference between a rupture on an already bleeding target, or a target with no current bleeds. The Crimson Tempest bleed helps with Fan of Knives damage, but Crimson Tempest itself benefits from the Sanguinary Veins debuff, as the entirety of it's damage is determined from the instant part of the skill, so at 2-3 enemies I would personally first use rupture on everything before using Crimson Tempest, as the Fan of Knives damage is so low. I have not done any math on whether the debuff should be prioritized for Fan of Knives or Crimson Tempest, but one thing is for sure, it does not help Rupture in any way.

Thank you very much for the feedback!

The Honor Among Thieves part in the opener was just some text I had forgotten to remove, but the actual opener had been properly updated following the hotfix. So, I removed the extra text.

Thanks for catching this discrepancy regarding Rupture refreshing. I fixed it as well.

I also took into account your last suggestion. The strange thing is that this very rotation was suggested to me by one of my reviewers

[Guest ShartyJ]

 

Opener

1) Garrote -> Trinket/SR -> Rupture -> Dance is superiour to your opener.

2) Even with Subterfuge, you want to use the above opener! Else your SR wont have your trinket procs when it starts doing damage!

 

 

Why not macro SR into your Garrote to receive an extra Garrote from the reflection? Or is it better to save a global's time to try and get another Ambush in once Shadow Dance is activated?

 

[Guest Roncero]

 

 

Opener

1) Garrote -> Trinket/SR -> Rupture -> Dance is superiour to your opener.

2) Even with Subterfuge, you want to use the above opener! Else your SR wont have your trinket procs when it starts doing damage!

 

 

Why not macro SR into your Garrote to receive an extra Garrote from the reflection? Or is it better to save a global's time to try and get another Ambush in once Shadow Dance is activated?

 

 

Garrote does a tiny amount of damage so surely it's better to have the SR copy something extra during dance than the garrote at the start?

 

Also, Simcraft uses neither yours nor the opener in the guide, its:

 

Garrote->SR/Dance/Racials/Trinkets->Ambush->Rupture->normal rotation

 

 

[Guest Darkacheron]

I would suggest removing the Draenic Agility Potion macro altogether. You can mention somewhere that Draenic Agility Potions do not break stealth. That would mean the beginning of the opener section (Premed,SnD,Potion) can all be completed entirely in stealth without the need to macro the potion and stealth together (the current macro actually seems to break stealth if you are already in it). This would also make it so if you miss the Prepot+Stealth for whatever reason, you can still perform your normal opener.

[Guest Azeryn]

Might want to change the opening sequence. You have Premeditation + SnD before dropping into stealth. Can't Premed unless stealthed. I guess just change it to after prepot? maybe a premed + SnD macro for this purpose might be handy.

[Guest Joesi]

Thank u for ur work!!!

[Damien 1,514]

I fixed the potion stuff and I've asked Rosvall his opinion on the opener that was suggested here. Thank you guys for the comments!

[Guest Guest]

Why does this guide mention double subterfuge using the Glyph of Vanish when it was fixed in patch 5.4.7 in May 2014.

[Damien 1,514]

Why does this guide mention double subterfuge using the Glyph of Vanish when it was fixed in patch 5.4.7 in May 2014.

It was never fixed.

[Guest Guest]

It was never fixed.

Sorry blizzard did say it was fixed on March 18 2014 (Not May like I had previously stated), but like your guide mentions you can still get a second application of subterfuge before vanish ends.

 

 

• Rogue
  • Talents
    • Resolved an issue where Vanish modified by Glyph of Vanish was incorrectly causing the Subterfuge effect to trigger twice. Vanish will now cancel its effect when the duration of Subterfuge expires.

[Damien 1,514]

Sorry blizzard did say it was fixed on March 18 2014 (Not May like I had previously stated), but like your guide mentions you can still get a second application of subterfuge before vanish ends.

I think you should test it and see for yourself.

[Gudarai 0]

I would like to add that if you have the T18 2 piece bonus the prem-ambush macro is kinda obsolete(unleash ofc you are in shadow Dance) 

[MiraNyxx 0]

Theoretically, during your opener wouldn't it be useful to just throw up 1 hemo to proc sang befor your first rupture? I havent tested yet so this difference may be negligible at best.

[Guest Decryptz]

Does anyone know of any good weakaura presets for sub rogue or just rogue in general?

[Guest Montaris]

The whole opening sequence is wrong and should be updated:

 

you premed 11 sec before pull, SnD 2 sec before pull, vanish+potion 1 sec before pull and at pull you shadow reflect and rupture. Then you shadowdance and ambush, dump your cp with evis.

[Xploited 0]

Heyoo!!!

 

 

Well I've been facing a debate on something...

 

The suggestions on stats

many say that you should go for versa over multistrike but your guide suggests multistrike.Sensus on his updated youtube guide shows exactly the build of gear as getting only the 2 set from tunic and legs and the rest for versa but you suggest multistrike...I am a new player and I'd like you to convince metry yours.

 

Thanks

[Damien 1,514]

Heyoo!!!

 

 

Well I've been facing a debate on something...

 

The suggestions on stats

many say that you should go for versa over multistrike but your guide suggests multistrike.Sensus on his updated youtube guide shows exactly the build of gear as getting only the 2 set from tunic and legs and the rest for versa but you suggest multistrike...I am a new player and I'd like you to convince metry yours.

 

Thanks

The guy you're talking about makes PvP videos, so his versatility advice is probably meant to be just for PvP.

[Guest Guest]

 

Heyoo!!!

 

 

Well I've been facing a debate on something...

 

The suggestions on stats

many say that you should go for versa over multistrike but your guide suggests multistrike.Sensus on his updated youtube guide shows exactly the build of gear as getting only the 2 set from tunic and legs and the rest for versa but you suggest multistrike...I am a new player and I'd like you to convince metry yours.

 

Thanks

The guy you're talking about makes PvP videos, so his versatility advice is probably meant to be just for PvP.

 

Well I mostly am interested in PvP so should I take his advice?

[Carrn 284]

 

 

Heyoo!!!

 

 

Well I've been facing a debate on something...

 

The suggestions on stats

many say that you should go for versa over multistrike but your guide suggests multistrike.Sensus on his updated youtube guide shows exactly the build of gear as getting only the 2 set from tunic and legs and the rest for versa but you suggest multistrike...I am a new player and I'd like you to convince metry yours.

 

Thanks

The guy you're talking about makes PvP videos, so his versatility advice is probably meant to be just for PvP.

 

Well I mostly am interested in PvP so should I take his advice?

 

 

In a nutshell? Yes.

[Carrn 284]

The whole opening sequence is wrong and should be updated:

 

you premed 11 sec before pull, SnD 2 sec before pull, vanish+potion 1 sec before pull and at pull you shadow reflect and rupture. Then you shadowdance and ambush, dump your cp with evis.

 

That's only with HFC set bonuses