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Have Group Will Travel being removed. Love it or Hate it?

18 replies to this topic Started by Righ, May 25 2012 07:35 PM guild perk mop
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Posted 25 May 2012 - 07:35 PM

#1
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In light of the information discussed here

http://us.battle.net...71779171?page=1
and
http://us.battle.net...50107543?page=1

do you think Blizzard is doing the right thing by removing Have Group Will Travel (HGWT) in Mists?

All my points are made clearly in those posts, but to reiterate:

HGWT is a group tool that helps keep people in the world, yet Blizz claims it helps people AVOID being in the world. The above posts show why their wrong.

Playing in a social MMO isn't just about one player. Some people may not be accustomed to helping new players frequently, but as GM of 400+ toons with HGWT I have the ability to help anyone anywhere at a moment's notice. To me that's valuable. HGWT is the difference between 12 seconds of travel time or 20-minutes, depending on where they are. I certainly don't have time to drop what I'm doing, fly to a zep, wait, fly to the spot, help out, fly/zep/fly all the way back and do it again for the next person. And that's just helping one person. Any player can personally only use it once per session, but I can be summoned many times. So, yeah, it saves a chunk of time, both for me AND the person who needs the help.

There are many reasons like this that HGWT is a big time saver for those veteran players who've seen all the stale content and want to keep WoW fresh for them. It's got nothing to do with being lazy, I'm a vanilla player who's done the grind. HGWT opens up new play opportunities that would otherwise be wasted flying over stale content.

What do you think?

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 08:05 PM

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Peelyon
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Theres a similar thread ongoing on the EU side as well

http://eu.battle.net...78828084?page=1

I think Blizzard sometimes acts first and thinks second. Like its been mentioned loads of times before, it actually puts people out there into the world to help others. It saves alot of effort and means you can spend the time actually playing the game. If you dont use HGWT you just use a flight path instead and go afk / tab out for 20minutes instead.

A great use of it for myself and our members have been Outland / Northrend rares (for the achievements, because who is going to run the risk of losing a rare to another quester and let a guild member fly 20minutes to catch up). The tournaments in Nagrand / Zul'Drak for anyone levelling up and in need of a decent boost. Other uses such as the Gurabashi arena (no summoning stone there).

I think it will be a real shame if they remove it.

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 08:39 PM

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Theres a similar thread ongoing on the EU side as well

http://eu.battle.net...78828084?page=1

I think Blizzard sometimes acts first and thinks second. Like its been mentioned loads of times before, it actually puts people out there into the world to help others. It saves alot of effort and means you can spend the time actually playing the game. If you dont use HGWT you just use a flight path instead and go afk / tab out for 20minutes instead.

A great use of it for myself and our members have been Outland / Northrend rares (for the achievements, because who is going to run the risk of losing a rare to another quester and let a guild member fly 20minutes to catch up). The tournaments in Nagrand / Zul'Drak for anyone levelling up and in need of a decent boost. Other uses such as the Gurabashi arena (no summoning stone there).

I think it will be a real shame if they remove it.


Obviously, I agree. Thanks for sharing the EU perspective. There are a lot of the same-old tired "lazy" counter arguments, but it's nice to see people recognizing removing HGWT will have the opposite affect that Blizz is hoping for. Keep up the fight over there!

Posted 25 May 2012 - 11:01 PM

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Damien
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I have been through all the threads you guys linked and I have seen no comments from Blizzard representatives. Do we know what their official stance is on this matter? Have Group, Will Travel is a very useful feature, so it surprises me that they would just remove it from the game. Maybe they intend to make it available to players under a different form, such as an on-use effect on an item that is very difficult to obtain.

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 11:17 PM

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No point looking on the EU forums for blue posts (but thats a discussion for another day Posted Image )!

I would be more than happy for them to put HGWT to be the highest level perk (think they are going up to 30?). Perhaps even make it a 1 day cooldown. Or like you said the equivalent of a Dalaran teleport ring that perhaps is linked in someway to guild reputation.

Edited by Peelyon, 25 May 2012 - 11:19 PM.

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 11:21 PM

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I have been through all the threads you guys linked and I have seen no comments from Blizzard representatives. Do we know what their official stance is on this matter?

Have Group, Will Travel is a very useful feature, so it surprises me that they would just remove it from the game. Maybe they intend to make it available to players under a different form, such as an on-use effect on an item that is very difficult to obtain.


There have been official statements.

For me it's kind of a mixed feeling. What happens now is I'm online 15-20 minutes before raid, and either fly to the raid to summon everyone else, or just idle in Stormwind and wait for someone else to do it for me. It makes things a lot easier, but I don't think much would change, atleast not for raids since some people will always fly and summon the slackers.

As for the second part, that is pretty huge. being boosted myself in the Nagrand arena, Zul'drak arena and Crucible of Carnage, summong the other people their is really helpful. And of course it makes killing rares a lot easier so in that respect it's a real shame that it is going away.

I think Damien and Peelyon are right about the ring/item. There will be a lot of complaints from various people and Blizzard will find something to solve it.

I guess we'll just have to wait and see.
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Posted 25 May 2012 - 11:47 PM

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Although I love the idea of inspiring wanderlust in all of us, many players don't appreciate the craftsmanship of Azeroth intimately. Like myself, I beg guild mates to summon me even with the major advantage I already have when it comes to traveling, mage portals. It has become this way because I have already seen what Azeroth has to offer (for now!). One suggestion is to restrict HGWT on Pandaria exclusively, hoping to navigate players to delve into the mysterious untouched island and establish a penchant for the cryptic Pandarens. xx

Posted 26 May 2012 - 12:30 AM

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I have been through all the threads you guys linked and I have seen no comments from Blizzard representatives. Do we know what their official stance is on this matter?


Here is Tom Chilton on the matter (in the quote box): http://us.battle.net...618992?page=1#1

The above link also features some ideas on how to make old content interesting again. Please check it out and add your own!

Edited by Righ, 26 May 2012 - 12:31 AM.

Posted 26 May 2012 - 12:43 AM

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Here is Tom Chilton on the matter (in the quote box): http://us.battle.net...618992?page=1#1

The above link also features some ideas on how to make old content interesting again. Please check it out and add your own!


Thank you for pointing this out. From the transcript, he is saying that they are going to replace it with something else. I guess we need to see what this "something else" is going to be like.

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Posted 26 May 2012 - 01:18 AM

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Thank you for pointing this out. From the transcript, he is saying that they are going to replace it with something else. I guess we need to see what this "something else" is going to be like.


They are "replacing" HGWT with 25% faster fligh paths. Booo. So instead of getting us out to the world to explore with our friends we have to watch everyone ignore flight paths as we use our 310 speed flying mounts which will be faster.

So, they're wrong with their reasoning and their replacement. Removing HGWT is the antithesis of what Blizzard is trying to accomplish.

So role players won't be able to summon low level toons to difficult but important role play locations. Multiboxers won't be able to efficiently move their teams like they enjoy (me included), low level players will feel more like an imposition asking people for help and people will be less likely to help when it takes 20 minutes instead of 12 seconds round trip just to reach them.

Edited by Righ, 26 May 2012 - 01:23 AM.

Posted 26 May 2012 - 10:38 AM

#11
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I, too, think that Blizzard is wrong to remove to Have Group Will Travel. However, I don't really think that it was as beneficial as some of you claim in "getting players out in the world". I think someone who was going to get out in the world would do it anyway, whether it takes 12 second or 5 minutes or 15 minutes.

The idea of having people in the world is to have the feel of an MMO. That means seeing people fly by you on flight paths, or ride down the road on their little mounts, or afking in some low level quest hub, having forgotten to tab back into the game after their flight landed. HGTW does indeed promote the "take summon, perform (quick) task, Hearthstone back" lifestyle. I know I've done it and I didn't really think of myself as having been out in the world.

If you want to get someone somewhere (such as for role playing or any othe reason), you CAN still do it, either with a summoning stone of an instance or by using a Warlock. Sure, that might mean you need to make a Warlock alt or befriend one, but the possibility is there.

Now that I'm done playing devil's advocate, here are some of the reasons I think removing it is a mistake:
  • It's bad policy to take away benefits that were given to players, especially hard earned ones (some people really strived to get their guilds to a high level quickly). In fact, Blizzard have stuck to this policy for some time, claiming it often in regards to class changes.
  • Making it harder to get out in the world won't make people want to do it, when they have little reason to go out there in the first place. They need to address the root of the matter.
  • (the obvious one) Using Have Group Will Travel requires that someone manually goes out into the world in the first place, anyway.
I agree with Poetry, HGWT should remain in the game but should be unusable in Pandaria for a while (2 months, or until the first patch or whatever). That way, people would be forced to explore the new content as it is meant to be explored, while still retaining the benefits for the rest of the things.

There's one thing I haven't seen anyone mention, which is the new pet battle system. I believe that the way they intend to have collectible pets all over the world is closely tied to HGTW being removed.

Firstly, having those pets out there in locations you need to go (or even camp in) is going to be a big incentive for going out into the world. So, HGTW won't be needed to incentivise people when they'll all be flocking the world anyway (this is probably what Blizzard are thinking).

Secondly, considering the rare character of some of these collectible pets, some players could "abusively" camp a pet they have and summon their friend over to quickly tame it (or whatever).

Alas, I'm only speculating, but I think it's fair to say it has played a part in Blizzard's decision.

P.S.: I always prefered flying on the automated flight paths rather than using my own mount, so yay for +25% speed Posted Image

Posted 26 May 2012 - 06:57 PM

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I, too, think that Blizzard is wrong to remove to Have Group Will Travel. However, I don't really think that it was as beneficial as some of you claim in "getting players out in the world". I think someone who was going to get out in the world would do it anyway, whether it takes 12 second or 5 minutes or 15 minutes.


Thanks, Vlad. I agree with all your points, though with the above my point is that Blizz's main reasoning for removing HGWT is that it helps people "avoid" being out in the world, and HGWT doesn't do that. It facilitates getting out into the world. Now, you're absolutely right that there needs to be compelling content to make someone want to be out in the world, but them blaming HGWT for empty zones is ludacris.

I agree with Poetry, HGWT should remain in the game but should be unusable in Pandaria for a while (2 months, or until the first patch or whatever). That way, people would be forced to explore the new content as it is meant to be explored, while still retaining the benefits for the rest of the things.


I'd go so far as to say low level characters can't accept HGWT summons at all until...40, 60? Make 'em travel and appreciate it later on. They can create a summon so if they have help we can get to them, though. It should be turned off in Mists until 90, maybe even left off during the latest expansion for each expansion so every new expansion everyone has to learn their way around.

Secondly, considering the rare character of some of these collectible pets, some players could "abusively" camp a pet they have and summon their friend over to quickly tame it (or whatever).

Yeah, there are isolated problems like that where HGWT can be called out, but here I use the what's good for the goose is good for the gander approach. Everyone has the same opportunity. Posted Image

P.S.: I always prefered flying on the automated flight paths rather than using my own mount, so yay for +25% speed Posted Image


Well, I gotta say that's the first I heard of that, but grats for you! I'm going to have to race the flight paths to see what a difference it makes. Posted Image

Edited by Righ, 26 May 2012 - 06:59 PM.

Posted 26 May 2012 - 07:06 PM

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Well, I gotta say that's the first I heard of that, but grats for you! I'm going to have to race the flight paths to see what a difference it makes. Posted Image


The only reason why I prefer it is that I can tab out or go afk and be sure that I'll be arriving where I need to be. Too often I've set my flying mount on a "direct course" only to find myself fatigued over an ocean on the other side of the continent :P

Posted 26 May 2012 - 07:26 PM

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The only reason why I prefer it is that I can tab out or go afk and be sure that I'll be arriving where I need to be. Too often I've set my flying mount on a "direct course" only to find myself fatigued over an ocean on the other side of the continent Posted Image


This is true. Even if I'm sitting at my desk I still overrun my destination a lot. So, what does all this tell Blizz about getting out in the world? Flying and Flight Points are time wasting check-out-of-the-game opportunities. (note: this applies only to when you're busy/bored and want to save time, not when you're enjoying the flights. Either way, HGWT needs to stay. I use it almost every game session)

Edited by Righ, 26 May 2012 - 07:27 PM.

Posted 26 May 2012 - 08:14 PM

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This is true. Even if I'm sitting at my desk I still overrun my destination a lot. So, what does all this tell Blizz about getting out in the world? Flying and Flight Points are time wasting check-out-of-the-game opportunities. (note: this applies only to when you're busy/bored and want to save time, not when you're enjoying the flights. Either way, HGWT needs to stay. I use it almost every game session)


I agree completely. Being "out in the world" should be "being out in the world engaging in activities together", not running around herbing, or dismount for 5 seconds for your archeology site or afking a flight route.

I actually think the type of world events that exist in Guild Wars 2 might be a welcome addition to WoW and would encourage people to get out in the world more.

Posted 27 May 2012 - 07:23 PM

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The main thing I hope they do if they do remove HGWT, is put flight paths closer to the raid entrances at least. I'm thinking Firelands and Icecrown Citadel. If I can't get summoned, I don't want to have to fly across an entire zone to get to a raid. At least put flight paths near the summoning stone for each raid. At least, like people have mentioned earlier, you can take the path and just alt-tab out until you get there.

Posted 27 May 2012 - 07:32 PM

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Icecrown Citadel wasn't too bad, only took about a minute from Dalaran. I agree on firelands tho, and the Tier11 raids were also quite a bit of flying from the closest portal. But all in all it's not too bad. Dragon soul is pretty much as you want it, take portal in Dalaran and use the flight path right where you arrive, and 10 seconds from the end of the flight path to the entrance. The 25% increase in flight path speed will also help a lot on this. That'll probably make them faster than flying yourself, since flying yourself is a max of 310%, flight paths will be 337.5%. (270*1.25)
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Posted 05 June 2012 - 11:23 PM

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But the ways flight paths take... let's just say they make me think the gryphons are female Posted Image

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Posted 08 June 2012 - 11:22 PM

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Horrible decision. But, we're people so... allowing it only in 'old' zones and disabling it it 'new' zones for some time sounds reasonable.

Edited by meukow, 08 June 2012 - 11:22 PM.

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