Protection Paladin 6.2

[Damien 1,514]

This thread is for comments about our Protection Paladin guide.

[Guest Dacmes]

You are missing Stamina in stat priority chart.

[Fouton 266]

In terms of value, Stamina is listed as equal to mastery. However you should never ever stack it, since you get enough as it is from gear. Stamina just makes your healthbar look more consistent while taking the same damage. It's recommended to just not gem it, you should just happen to get it when you get socket bonuses/upgrades.

 

When comparing gear of different item levels, often times it's best to just ignore the stamina as well, though in cases where the upgrade is large (say +40 ilvls) then you will want to go with the stamina to help your healers keep you from spiking (except if its a matter of 4set, keep your 4sets if youre using Eternal Flame).

[Vlad 411]

You are missing Stamina in stat priority chart.

 

Stamina is discussed in the stats page, but due to its nature, it's really not possible to just put it into the priority list. It doesn't matter much anyway, because as Fouton says, you shouldn't be actively gearing for it in any way. The only exception is some gimmicky fight or something like this, but that's very unlikely.

[Pixi 1]

Just putting my thoughts out there... isn't haste still an insanely highly recommended stat ? considering that it increases your holy power regenaration and therefore makes you able to keep up  Shield of the Righteous ALOT more... on my paladin i am going currently as much haste as i possibly can, i have around 52% haste and i am able to keep an uptime on  Shield of the Righteous about 80% or more of the intire fight (note that i also have  Divine Purpose) but i do understand that ofc it is recommended to keep a balance of some kind between mastery and haste in order to increase the dmg reduction of the spell itself.. this is atleast what i am doing, and it is working like a charm, able to solotank close to everything, and dont need a healer for when im doing towers on galakras on HC (old normal)

[Vlad 411]

Just putting my thoughts out there... isn't haste still an insanely highly recommended stat ? considering that it increases your holy power regenaration and therefore makes you able to keep up  Shield of the Righteous ALOT more... on my paladin i am going currently as much haste as i possibly can, i have around 52% haste and i am able to keep an uptime on  Shield of the Righteous about 80% or more of the intire fight (note that i also have  Divine Purpose) but i do understand that ofc it is recommended to keep a balance of some kind between mastery and haste in order to increase the dmg reduction of the spell itself.. this is atleast what i am doing, and it is working like a charm, able to solotank close to everything, and dont need a healer for when im doing towers on galakras on HC (old normal)

This kind of thing depends a lot on your tanking style, and the environment in which you are in. For example, why I would say that it is impressive that you can solo-tank the towers without needing any healers, I'd ask why you would ever need to do that to begin with, since you have healers in the raid.

 

The guides we write are intended to be of use to characters progressing on difficult content. Not the most cutting edge of progression, because that's really where the innovation happens, but not farming old content either, because that's where you can get away with a lot.

 

So, I'm confident to say that if you were to be doing the same fight on Mythic, or progressing on a boss in the upcoming Highmaul, you'd find that Mastery would help you more.

[Aqtarus 2]

Hi,

 

I am playing a paladin protection / retribution

 

I am a little bit confused by your guide and the 6.0.2 patch note. (it will not be the first time with Blizzard but...)

 

So patch notes says:

 

Secondary Stat Attunements

A new concept that we’re introducing is each specialization having an attunement to a particular secondary stat. These take the form of a passive ability that grants a 5% increase to the amount of a specific secondary stat gained. This provides a good starting point for where to focus your secondary stats. Usually, it will be your highest throughput stat (not counting Spirit for Healers, and Bonus Armor for Tanks, which is an optimal secondary stat in most cases). There are exceptions, and raw throughput may not even be the biggest concern in some situations. Treat this as a guideline, not a rule, about which secondary stat to favor.

 

• All specializations now receive a 5% bonus to specific secondary stat bonuses received from all sources. This bonus is granted through new passive abilities or additional effects added to existing passive abilities.
• [... other classes ...]
• Paladin
  • Holy: Critical Strike
  • Protection: Haste
  • Retribution: Mastery

 

 

and in your guide you says that Mastery is top priority:

 

 

The stat priority for Protections Paladins is as follows:

1. Mastery;
2. Bonus Armor;
3. Versatility;
4. Haste to 50%;
5. Critical Strike;
6. Multistrike.

 

is everything ok and all right?

 

Do we have to prioritise Haste up to 50% and then Mastery (for enchant and gems) or prioritise Mastery?

 

Thanks

[Pixi 1]

This kind of thing depends a lot on your tanking style, and the environment in which you are in. For example, why I would say that it is impressive that you can solo-tank the towers without needing any healers, I'd ask why you would ever need to do that to begin with, since you have healers in the raid.

 

The guides we write are intended to be of use to characters progressing on difficult content. Not the most cutting edge of progression, because that's really where the innovation happens, but not farming old content either, because that's where you can get away with a lot.

 

So, I'm confident to say that if you were to be doing the same fight on Mythic, or progressing on a boss in the upcoming Highmaul, you'd find that Mastery would help you more.

i do see your point, why is it needed to go without healer in the towers when there is a healer for it anyways, and about the part were i might find mastery more valueable in progress runs, again, i do see your points but isn't it kinda useless to go mastery without haste? mastery increases your block chance and increase the damage reduction value on   Shield of the Righteous, but you cant block more than 30% of the incoming dmg, no matter how much mastery you have. and without haste your uptime on holy power will be very low, and therefore you wont have   Shield of the Righteous up very much of the fight.. so basicly im just wondering if it wouldn't be more valueable to go for 50% haste before you start going for mastery?

Edited October 17, 2014 by Pixi

[Fouton 266]

While haste is an extremely useful stat, theory crafters have shown through sims and with direct math that mastery will help more. The thing to note about mastery is that it helps in multiple ways, rather than just Shield of the Righteous, and often times a healthy balance of both haste and mastery will be useful. Since a balance is nice, and haste comes easier, stacking Mastery will keep them evened out in value. A direct-math standpoint is that you reduce the most damage when your shield of the righteous damage reduction% equals your uptime %.

[Guest Truls]

I'm curious, Guarded by the Light has disappeared from our spellbooks, did something else take it's place?

[Vlad 411]

Hi,

 

I am playing a paladin protection / retribution

 

I am a little bit confused by your guide and the 6.0.2 patch note. (it will not be the first time with Blizzard but...)

 

So patch notes says:

 

 

and in your guide you says that Mastery is top priority:

 

 

is everything ok and all right?

 

Do we have to prioritise Haste up to 50% and then Mastery (for enchant and gems) or prioritise Mastery?

 

Thanks

 

The stats priority should be fine as listed on the website at the moment. Prioritise Mastery. Haste to 50% merely indicates that it's of value to you (and more so than Critical Strike) until that point, after which it is not.

[Guest Yridaa]

Tier 2:

 

"The talent choice here is largely irrelevant, and it will not impact your performance in any way"

 

 

I beg to differ:

 

First of Justice allows for some reasonably/very powerful defensive cooldown;

 

 

Spoils:

 

Using it just when Kor'thik Warcaller's Enrages, especially in Mythic.

 

 

Amalgamation of Corruption:

 

Using it when two Manifestation of Corruption's spawn and the other tank is phased. This allows you to taunt 1 manifestation and stun the other until the taunt comes off CD.

 

 

Galakras:

 

Interrupting  Dragonmaw Bonecrusher's Fracture, interrupting Dragonmaw Tidal Shaman's Chain Heal.

 

 

General Nazgrim:

 

Stunning any add.

 

 

Malkorok Mythic:

 

Taunting the Living Corruption, and applying the stun when it is between melee and ranged. This way no one gets the Languish debuff.

 

 

Siegecrafter Blackfuse:

 

Stunning Crawler Mines

 

 

Paragons of the Klaxxi:

 

Stunning almost all adds

 

 

Garrosh:

 

Stunning players afflicted by Touch of Y'Shaarj before it gets Empowered.

 

 

 

 

The other Tier two abilities don't come close towards the utility and defensive CD that the Fist of Justice has.

 

 

I've been using Icy-Veins for years but I almost always put really big question marks on some of your decisions. I guess I sound like an ass with this criticism, but I honestly feel that sometimes you could use a different point of view on some of your choices.

 

That said though, I know a lot of you put tonnes of effort into the site and to make it easier for everyone. I value the craftsmanship that went into it for years.

 

 

I wish you could be a bit more elaborate on some of the choices made, and I wished I bit the bullet and came with criticism sooner.

 

 

There's another great example I would like to put up, but am very interested to see if you can find out for yourself (Yourselves?). If you like to be challenged, try to find out why I strongly disagree with your opinion of your Tier 6 Choices. The more thought you put into it the more elaborate I'll be and see if I can change your opinion.

 

Thrill of discussions.

[Aqtarus 2]

thanks a lot Vlad and Fouton

[Vlad 411]

Tier 2:

 

"The talent choice here is largely irrelevant, and it will not impact your performance in any way"

 

 

I beg to differ:

 

First of Justice allows for some reasonably/very powerful defensive cooldown;

 

 

Spoils:

 

Using it just when Kor'thik Warcaller's Enrages, especially in Mythic.

 

 

Amalgamation of Corruption:

 

Using it when two Manifestation of Corruption's spawn and the other tank is phased. This allows you to taunt 1 manifestation and stun the other until the taunt comes off CD.

 

 

Galakras:

 

Interrupting  Dragonmaw Bonecrusher's Fracture, interrupting Dragonmaw Tidal Shaman's Chain Heal.

 

 

General Nazgrim:

 

Stunning any add.

 

 

Malkorok Mythic:

 

Taunting the Living Corruption, and applying the stun when it is between melee and ranged. This way no one gets the Languish debuff.

 

 

Siegecrafter Blackfuse:

 

Stunning Crawler Mines

 

 

Paragons of the Klaxxi:

 

Stunning almost all adds

 

 

Garrosh:

 

Stunning players afflicted by Touch of Y'Shaarj before it gets Empowered.

 

 

 

 

The other Tier two abilities don't come close towards the utility and defensive CD that the Fist of Justice has.

 

 

I've been using Icy-Veins for years but I almost always put really big question marks on some of your decisions. I guess I sound like an ass with this criticism, but I honestly feel that sometimes you could use a different point of view on some of your choices.

 

That said though, I know a lot of you put tonnes of effort into the site and to make it easier for everyone. I value the craftsmanship that went into it for years.

 

 

I wish you could be a bit more elaborate on some of the choices made, and I wished I bit the bullet and came with criticism sooner.

 

 

There's another great example I would like to put up, but am very interested to see if you can find out for yourself (Yourselves?). If you like to be challenged, try to find out why I strongly disagree with your opinion of your Tier 6 Choices. The more thought you put into it the more elaborate I'll be and see if I can change your opinion.

 

Thrill of discussions.

 

You are right. We've historically treated the talents that give you a stun (or improve it) as simply CC (for example Mighty Bash for Guardian Druids), but it is true that you can use them quite well to mitigate add damage. We'll amend the guide to make a note of the usefulness of these talents.

 

As for tier 6 talents, I can't quite say what your gripe might be. The discussion we have there is fairly open-ended. Perhaps you disagree with the idea that the greater number of global cooldowns spent on Holy Prism is a disadvantage (since you can also use it "when you need it")?

 

thanks a lot Vlad and Fouton

 

You are very welcome.

[Fouton 266]

Bring the Tier 6 discussion to the paladin forums and I'll gladly put out a good debate :) The basics of it though is: Execution sentence is single target king, lights hammer is AoE burst king, holy prism is add control king. Overall prism takes away from mitigation slightly and sims worst, but can have an amazing utility to picking up adds. It's a matter of using it for the right fight.

[Guest Beergo99les]

Man i've been reading tanking feedback for WoD all night. It's 5 am and I have to go to work, i'm that dedicated to this. My guild needs me, my friends need me. When I look at the boss fights of the first raid, I see heavy tank single target damage. With dots and having to swap. I'm just trying to figure out which class can boss tank the best and i'm not really sure because over 3 hours of reading, I just can't pick. I'm noticing a "it's balanced" vibe for this expansion.

[Guest Guvante]

Should Haste be avoided or treated as secondary to Mastery/Bonus Armor? It appears that the value and rarity of Bonus Armor makes it first and Mastery great due to its various effects, but the stat listing puts Haste as dead last yet half the points and discussions talk about haste as being just below Mastery in effectiveness.

[Vlad 411]

Should Haste be avoided or treated as secondary to Mastery/Bonus Armor? It appears that the value and rarity of Bonus Armor makes it first and Mastery great due to its various effects, but the stat listing puts Haste as dead last yet half the points and discussions talk about haste as being just below Mastery in effectiveness.

You should always follow the actual priority of stats (so, that puts Haste dead last). The order of the paragraphs describing the stats is not an indication of the value of those stats :)

[Guest Kirta]

I dont see sanctity of battle passive on my friends paladin.Did they remove it ?

[Guest Joe]

The Rotation section of the Prot guide needs some updating. It says that SotR is useless against magic damage, which is no longer true if you take Holy Shield at level 100. 

[Vlad 411]

I dont see sanctity of battle passive on my friends paladin.Did they remove it ?

It still exists, it just doesn't show up in the spell book anymore.

 

The Rotation section of the Prot guide needs some updating. It says that SotR is useless against magic damage, which is no longer true if you take Holy Shield at level 100. 

Thank you. I will look into this now.

[Guest DT-]

And what profit do you get from SotR against magic dmg with holy shield? Holy shield adds you an ability to block spells, but block value not affected by SotR.

[Vlad 411]

And what profit do you get from SotR against magic dmg with holy shield? Holy shield adds you an ability to block spells, but block value not affected by SotR.

That's right, indeed!

[Guest Allelya]

The tool tip information that appears when hovering over your link for Sanctified Wrath is not the same as what I am seeing live, in-game when I look at my talents. 

 

In-game, mine says the following: Your Holy Wrath now generates 1 Holy Power, and deals 100% additional damage. 

[Guest Jordan]

Any thoughts on the worth of Kyb's Foolish Perseverance? Is the 594 stam worth it? Or is it better to focus trinkets with mastery, bonus armor or vers?