Jump to content
FORUMS
Sign in to follow this  
Damien

Restoration Shaman 6.2

Recommended Posts

Guest Amika

Hey Vix,

 

Question for you re: Resto Shaman stat priority.  I agree with you that Mastery is the best secondary stat, but how did you come up with Multistrike being number two?  As far as I can tell, Multistrike is similar to Crit in that it grants extra throughput, but lacks the benefits of granting mana gains from Resurgence.

 

At level 100, 110 crit = 1% crit rating and 66 multistrike = 1% multistrike rating. Multistrike is cheaper, but also less effective since a critical heal doubles the value of the heal (heal size x 2.0), and a multistrike heal only multiplies it by 1.3, or 1.6 if you want to take into account that there are two chances to proc a multistrike.

 

For example, lets just say you have a 10K heal. If a crit procs, that heal = 10k x 2 = 20k. If both multistrikes proc, then you get 10K + 3K + 3K = 16k total.

 

What does this mean? The crit heal gave 10K extra throughput, and the multistrike heal gave 6K extra throughput. 6/10 = 0.6, and lo and behold, 66/110 (the stat values needed to obtain 1% multistrike and crit) also = 0.6. In terms of raw stat values, this means that crit and multistrike are completey equal in terms of throughput gained per point. However, crit has the added benefit of granting mana regen from resurgence, and multistrike does not.

 

In my book, stat priority is: Mastery > Crit > Multistrike > Haste.

 

Am I completely missing something about multistrike?

 

Thanks!

 

Amika <Might> Zul'jin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Excellent question!

 

I don't disagree with your approach--in terms of an isolated investment, the gain per point would be equal. So, even basic intuition would suggest that with Multistrike providing no benefit to regen, Crit would be better because it increases Resurgence procs by some amount greater than zero.

 

But, there are a couple issues that arise with this line of thinking. First, it assumes sufficient time in which to cast the additional heal. It's a fair presumption, one that I don't think this is going to be an issue in Mythic raiding, but I bring it up because time is an inherent part of evaluating stat weights (and can significantly impact rotational stat evaluations). But, again, in an isolated environment, the worst case the two stats are equal; the best case is that Crit moves ahead.

 

The second, and the larger issue, is what happens when you start looking at Crit and Multistrike in a dependant environment. (This is similar to the interrelationship of Crit and Mastery that I went to such lengths to analyze back in Cataclysm). While you can invest all your stats in Crit and have zero Multistrike, the inverse isn't true; all players have base crit. So, all multistrikes have potential to crit, even if it is at the base value of 5%. Thus, the calculation of your average heal would have the following components:  Total Heal = Base Heal + Critical Heal + (Multistrike1 + Multistrike1 Crit) + (Multistrike2 + Multistrike2 Crit). This is a careful departure from the situation where you look at each investment in isolation. When I ran the calcs this way, Multistrike did pull ahead of Crit in terms of average throughput. Hamlet's HealerCalcs actually corroborates on the raw throughput--hooray!

 

Lastly, it's worth remembering that Resurgence gains are comparatively minor in Warlords. Whereas in Mists, CH crits returned a whopping 22% of the base cost of the spell, in WoD you're only going to see a 5% return on critical strike. (Healing Wave returns 40% of base; Healing Surge returns 12%). So, when you're looking at a "raid healing rotation" which is dominated by CH, your sustainability isn't going to be significantly impacted by Resurgence. The counter to this is, of course, that Crit will overly benefit your "conservative single target rotation", and allow you to essentially tread water while waiting for the next period of burst. 

 

TL;DNR: at the end of it all, the answer both Stoove and I were left with was: it's very, VERY close. Which is an incredibly heartening idea given that WoD is a world without reforging, because it means that you shouldn't be overly concerned if you have the option of upgrading a Crit piece with a Multistrike piece or vice versa. 

 

Stoove actually put together a great post on this topic recently as well: http://stoove.wordpress.com/2014/11/03/statlords-of-shamanor/. It's worth a read and explains, in good detail, how the current stat recommendations were derived.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One thing I'd like to add is that the theorycraft community doesn't entirely seem to agree yet on the issued of Crit and Multistrike. Vixsin noted that Hamlet's Healercalcs spreadsheet agrees with both her and my own analysis, but Hamlet and Dayani have both said (on their podcast) that Multi and Crit are "mathematically the same", which is contrary to Vixsin's reasoning and my own published calculations.

 

So, although the matter is under discussion right now, that has actually caused us to inspect our stat recommendations much more carefully than we otherwise would have.

 

Haste is still an open topic as well. In terms of pure throughput it's quite superior to either Crit or Multi (and inferior to Mastery), but there are considerations to be made for mana spending which so far hasn't been accounted for in published work. This is because such a problem is "quite nontrivial", as scientists like to say, which means that you are unlikely ever to find a properly satisfying Ultimate Answer.

 

Ultimately, the stat priority we have recommended (and will revise in the approach to WoD) is extremely carefully considered in the full knowledge of these problems and will shift as and when the theorycraft changes direction.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest dean

Not to mention the value of getting that casted heal out "quicker" regardless of throughput, more of a pvp thing but still as (almost impossible to measure) value in pve

 

For crit and mutistrike (ignoring mana regen) its safe to say because they are close and scale off each other the "right" answer will be to ballance them to some degree

 

That all said because mastery is no 1, Gems and enchants will probably go there, and we will probably prefer warforged, and gemmed and maybe even gear with terrciary stats before we need to even worry about choosing between crit and mastery

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Amika

Oh, the power of math! Thank you very much Vixsin and Stoove for your responses. I also really enjoyed reading your "Statlords of Shamanor" writeup Stoove, although now my head hurts just a bit smile.png The time you have both taken to math these things out is greatly appreciated.

 

As a "touchyfeelycrafter", after taking all this into consideration, I like the idea of Mastery > Multistrike = Crit > Haste for the first tier of WoD. Personally, I'm placing Haste low on the priority list simply because of the inevitable HPM concerns for the first tier, when we all feel a little mana starved.  Haste is lovely if your mana regen can support it, but in a mana-conservative environment I think I'll lean towards the free throughput of the other secondary stats.

 

Finally, it certainly is reassuring to believe that no matter what combination of secondary stats get thrown our way, we'll be able to make good use of them.

 

Thank you once again for taking the time to respond!

 

Amika <Might> Zul'jin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Responding to discussions like this is absolutely a pleasure, and thanks for your compliments!

 

I know that a lot of people who have tested raiding more rigorously than I have on the Beta are saying that Haste will be too low on their personal rating just for the mana concerns. I'm not sure whether I'm being optimistic here - perhaps I anticipate changing my rotation much more than those who playtested might already have.

 

Also, stay tuned for more maths which will try to take account of some of the mana issues we've discussed. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

the guide says wow_icon_spell_shaman_elementaloath.jpgAncestral Swiftness gives you an emergency heal if you combine it with wow_icon_spell_nature_healingwavelesser.Healing Wave. I would think it better to use wow_icon_spell_nature_healingway.jpgHealing Surge as it has more base healing power, and its free of mana cost.

 

also you can make wow_icon_ability_shaman_condensationtoteCloudburst Totem expire when you want it, if you don't have some other important totem up at the time with wow_icon_spell_shaman_totemrecall.jpgTotemic Recall. maybe you can add this as somebody might find it usefull to know.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Guest

Question: 

 

I haven't had a single Echo of Elements procc when using healing spells. Is it possible that the Skill only proccs of Damage-Skills?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I haven't had a single Echo of Elements procc when using healing spells. Is it possible that the Skill only proccs of Damage-Skills?

 

EotE procs from healing spells just as much as it procs from damage. The only caveat is that you must be in combat to proc EotE, which is obviously not a problem with damage spells. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Arcarania

For me, Mr Robot is recommending Mark of Bleeding Hollow over Mark of Shadowmoon.  Have there been any changes, or is Mr Robot simply weighing stats differently?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For me, Mr Robot is recommending Mark of Bleeding Hollow over Mark of Shadowmoon.  Have there been any changes, or is Mr Robot simply weighing stats differently?

 

Depends on how desparate for mana you are, and I don't have a feel for that in raids yet. AMR would be correct for throughput, but sub-optimal if you need the mana to sustain healing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Ракторр

the guide says wow_icon_spell_shaman_elementaloath.jpgAncestral Swiftness gives you an emergency heal if you combine it with wow_icon_spell_nature_healingwavelesser.Healing Wave. I would think it better to use wow_icon_spell_nature_healingway.jpgHealing Surge as it has more base healing power, and its free of mana cost.

 

 

 

 

I absolutely agree I do not understand why in Hyde differently

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Killinblow

The talents are outdated. Elemental Blast is a really good choice now, with 1000 spirit from 250 and 500 in a random stat. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest LTW

I'd like to ask about the new set pieces coming with BFR.

 

They have quite a high amount of multistrike mixed in them. Is there going to be a probable change in stat priority once the set bonuses come into effect? It seems like Blizzard is trying to push multistrike onto everything Shaman related.

 

To this moment I was able to run on 0 MS and 0 Vers, this will not be the case with the new gear.

 

Will the gear optimization just get harder? Or will we probably adapt to different stats?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The talents are outdated. Elemental Blast is a really good choice now, with 1000 spirit from 250 and 500 in a random stat.

 

I updated the values, which I had forgotten to update when WoD was released.

 

I'd like to ask about the new set pieces coming with BFR.

 

They have quite a high amount of multistrike mixed in them. Is there going to be a probable change in stat priority once the set bonuses come into effect? It seems like Blizzard is trying to push multistrike onto everything Shaman related.

 

To this moment I was able to run on 0 MS and 0 Vers, this will not be the case with the new gear.

 

Will the gear optimization just get harder? Or will we probably adapt to different stats?

I'll let Stoove reply to that smile.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Bule

Hmm. I can't really decide between Cloudburst Totem and High Tides. I have read several guides about that and I am still using Cloudburst Totem. Before we get our tier 17 set 4 bonus (then High Tides is the choice), it is a difficult to decide..

 

Currently I am not using much Chain Heal so I think Cloudburst is better choice, but I am not sure..

 

This guide's default choice is Cloudburst so I guess I will keep it for now..

 

Has there been any changes past month? I see this guide has not been updated for a while.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd like to ask about the new set pieces coming with BFR.

 

They have quite a high amount of multistrike mixed in them. Is there going to be a probable change in stat priority once the set bonuses come into effect? It seems like Blizzard is trying to push multistrike onto everything Shaman related.

 

To this moment I was able to run on 0 MS and 0 Vers, this will not be the case with the new gear.

 

Will the gear optimization just get harder? Or will we probably adapt to different stats?

 

Here's my understanding of the BRF Tier gear: the additional casts of Chain Heal will not proc Multistrikes. So that would imply that Multistrike won't become overpowered due simply to the 2pc set bonus.

 

The second part of this is about set itemization; I don't think that Multistrike will get any *better* without a significant change implemented to our mechanics, which I think is unlikely. Mastery and Haste will still be our best throughput stats, but we might be forced into having a wider spread of stats (i.e. more Multistrike and Crit). I don't really see us changing our playstyle much in the face of different itemization, except for being slightly happier to heal people on high hp.

 

Hmm. I can't really decide between Cloudburst Totem and High Tides. I have read several guides about that and I am still using Cloudburst Totem. Before we get our tier 17 set 4 bonus (then High Tides is the choice), it is a difficult to decide..

 

Currently I am not using much Chain Heal so I think Cloudburst is better choice, but I am not sure..

 

This guide's default choice is Cloudburst so I guess I will keep it for now..

 

Has there been any changes past month? I see this guide has not been updated for a while.

 

Set bonuses aside, CBT and HT are roughly on par - I find it better to spec CBT by default and switch into HT for those fights where I can find a really good use for it. CBT is really such an efficient talent that I'd advise learning to use that over HT. Note also that you have to do quite a lot of Chain Heals in one fight for HT's throughput to start to outstrip CBT's - a number which I just can't afford at the moment.

 

The guide does not currently need to be updated as far as I know. Very little has changed since it was last updated.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Question about T6 talents.

 

Your guide says to take primal elementalist unless you have mana problems. However, while you give a good description of Unleashed Fury, you don't say why to either never take it, or when it would be more useful than Primal Elementalist or Elemental Blast.

 

Why should I never take Unleashed Fury?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Leilebule

I don't think so Unleashed Fury would be better on any situation except when you need to do Chain Heal a lot (assuming you are also using High Tides) or big heal on someone with low hp. Primal Elementalist gives you a passive 10% healing done when you pop em out and Elemental Blast Spirit for mana regen.

 

What I think so far is the Imperator fight on heroic/mythic where Unleashed Fury along with Chain Heal/High Tides could be useful.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest jakkob

It no longer affects healing rain. It provides less overall benefit than PE or EB.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Totem

Can you please update this guide? it still references siege of orgrimmar and from looking at the top resto shamans and how they heal, seems to be outdated

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The guide could use some serious updating, most of the justification for talents comes from SoO fights and at this point it's suggesting talents that most of the top tier resto shamans are disagreeing with. I'd say default Astral Shift, Windwalk Totem, Call of the Elements, Ancestral Swiftness, Rushing Streams (Conductivity for a handful of minimal movement fights), Elemental Blast, High Tide.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Question about T6 talents.

 

Your guide says to take primal elementalist unless you have mana problems. However, while you give a good description of Unleashed Fury, you don't say why to either never take it, or when it would be more useful than Primal Elementalist or Elemental Blast.

 

Why should I never take Unleashed Fury?

 

It seems like this part wasn't update recently.

The most 'to-go' talent in tier 6 now is Elemental Blast due to spirit and secondaries buffs that it provides. 

You definitely can play with Unleashed Fury when taking CBT in tier 7. Crits from HS empowered with UF+UL charge the totem very nice. It is valuable for empowering HW too.

Maybe things will change with getting more tier bonuses and higher ilvl deeper in expansion, but PE is definitely not the best choice for now. It was back in MoP, but now you can hardly find resto shaman who prefer it over EB or UF.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Similar Content

    • By Staff
      Executive Producer Holly Longdale teased some upcoming experimental PvE-focused content that Blizzard will soon reveal to the community.
      It appears that Plunderstorm isn't the only new mode Blizzard plans to add to WoW this year.
      Holly Longdale today teased an upcoming PvE-oriented event that will soon be revealed to us. Holly might be talking about the "Timerunning Pandamonium," expected in Patch 10.2.7.
      (Source)
      Greetings Citizens of Azeroth,
      It’s been great seeing so many players taking the plunge into Plunderstorm and we’ve loved seeing all of the stories and feedback as this experimental event evolves. It will be exciting to see some of the community content creators going head-to-head as duos during the Plunderstorm Creator Royale on March 30!  This isn’t the end of the things we want to try in World of Warcraft, however, and we have more in store we can’t wait to show you.
      Dragonflight Season 4 is in route as testing begins on the PTR and we’ll have more news to share soon™ on the next experiment we have up our sleeves. We hope those of you who are looking for PvE focused content will enjoy what we’re planning, all while we continue to press forward on development of our next expansion for World of Warcraft— The War Within.
      We can’t wait to share with you all the many things the team has been hard at work on.
      With gratitude and excitement for what we’ll do together next,
      Holly Longdale
    • By Stan
      Blizzard just pushed an encrypted Patch 10.2.7 build to the WoW Dev 3 CDN branch.
      WoW Dev 3 has been updated from 10.2.6.53840 to 10.2.7.53954. The build is encrypted and we can't datamine it.
      Placeholder for tweet 1773384989314298365 13 days ago, we saw the very first encrypted Patch 10.2.7 build on a different branch (WoW Vendor 2).
      Placeholder for tweet 1768106695425700174 According to the 2024 roadmap, Patch 10.2.7, dubbed Dark Heart, is set to introduce new features such as Timerunning Pandamonium, Harbinger Quests, Troll & Draenei Heritage Armor, and a new holiday event.

    • By Stan
      We've looked at the Mythic+ Tier List for the first time in Patch 10.2.6!
      DISCLAIMER
      The following post is based on data from U.GG. Therefore, the data presented here may differ from Petko's Mythic Tier Lists maintained on our site.
      How the Data is Calculated
      U.GG's tier list is created by evaluating damage and healing scores from the very best players and factoring in the frequency of each spec's appearances in the highest rankings of the current Mythic+ season. The tier list of each spec is determined by its effectiveness and prevalence at the highest levels of Mythic+ play.
      Mythic+ Tier List for Dragonflight Season 3 Week 20
      This week's affixes are: Tyrannical, Afflicted, and Bolstering.
      Healer Tier List
      S-Tier Mistweaver Monk A-Tier: Restoration Druid Discipline Priest Holy Priest B-Tier: Restoration Shaman Preservation Evoker C-Tier: Holy Paladin
      Tank Tier List
      S-Tier: Vengeance Demon Hunter A-Tier: Protection Paladin Blood Death Knight B-Tier: Guardian Druid Brewmaster Monk C-Tier Protection Warrior (down from B-Tier)
      DPS Tier List
      S-Tier: Retribution Paladin Shadow Priest (up from A-Tier) Fire Mage A-Tier: Outlaw Rogue Havoc Demon Hunter (down from S-Tier) Augmentation Evoker Demonology Warlock Fury Warrior Beast Mastery Hunter Balance Druid Destruction Warlock Arms Warrior (up from B-Tier) B-Tier: Windwalker Monk (down from A-Tier) Elemental Shaman Unholy Death Knight Enhancement Shaman Frost Mage Survival Hunter Frost Death Knight Marksmanship Hunter (up from C-Tier) Feral Druid  C-Tier: Arcane Mage (down from B-Tier) Devastation Evoker Subtlety Rogue Affliction Warlock Assassination Rogue
    • By Staff
      Here's a video explaining all Plunderstorm skills under 10 minutes.
      Whether you're a seasoned player in need of a quick refresher on what Plunderstorm brings to the table, or you're new to the game mode altogether, this video has you covered. It breaks down each ability in detail, thanks to BBB.
    • By Staff
      Dragonflight Season 4 adds a new world quest for Spark of Awakening.
      To get your Spark of Awakening, you must complete a different quest every week.
      The weekly quest is available from Therazal in central Valdrakken. There are 3 options, but only one is active every week, similar to how Awakened raids rotate.

      Dragon Isles Quest
      Participate in a Community Feast Participate in a Hunt Lay siege to Dragonbane Keep Zaralek Cavern Quest
      Protect the Researchers Under Fire Loot a Secured Shipment (Suffusion Camp) Complete a Time Rift Amirdrassil Quest
      Earn 50 Bloom during the Superbloom Complete a Superbloom Plant 3 Dreamseeds Quest Rewards
      Completing any of the 3 quests above grants the Season 4 spark fragment (Splintered Spark of Awakening) via Weekly Awakened Activity and a Cache of Awakened Storms.
      You will need two Splintered Spark of Awakening and 250 Flightstones to create one Spark of Awakening.

×
×
  • Create New...