5 posts in this topic

Hey everyone, this is going to be my last content post as a moderator of this forum. My future in this game as a rogue holds all PvP and no progression raiding, so my current knowledge of the class at high end PvE will soon be obsolete. 

 

 

As a parting message, I'd like to try to communicate how I think the rogue contributes most uniquely to a progression raid team. There are 6 other classes that can provide melee DPS; all of those classes can also fill other roles with the right spec and gear. Rogue DPS is always among the top few potentials, but never by a wide enough margin to combat the flexibility that other classes bring. So, why should a rogue be played at all when there are so many other viable options? I argue that the rogue is easily the most effective damage mitigation and utility melee DPS class available to a raid group. The key to success is to play to your strengths and unique abilities, and when it comes to the rogue, your unique strengths are defensive.

 

The personal defensive arsenal provided by the rogue is unparalleled and very consistent. 

 

It was hard to pick my favourite of my top two abilities, but I have to give the crown to Cloak of Shadows. You gain complete immunity from all spell damage for 5 seconds on a 1 minute cooldown. This ability trivializes most major boss abilities. What really sets this apart from similar abilities from other classes is the cooldown; no other melee class can shield themselves to this degree so often.

 

Coming in at a very close second is Feint. For the cost of 20 energy and one global cooldown, you reduce your damage taken from AoE by 50%(65%) for 5(7) seconds. There is no cooldown on this ability. This ability means you should never take full damage from any indirect attack. No other melee class can match that.

 

Smoke Bomb is the newest addition to our defensive array. On a 3 minute cooldown, this ability creates a smoke circle with an 8 yard radius that reduces damage taken by all those inside by 10%. This is far from impressive when compared to our two main tools, but it does allow us to contribute to raid damage mitigation.

 

Vanish and Evasion are also defensive abilities, but their use is limited to very specific situations in a raid environment. If somehow you get aggro on a target (which is seemingly impossible now), you can drop all threat with Vanish. If you've got the boss down to 1% and he's going around wiping up your raid, Evasion can let you tank him for just a little bit longer sometimes to eek out that kill.

 

There are so many of you out there that think the path to raid glory is through increasing your meter damage through tiny theorycrafting tweaks, but you can secure your spot in the guild of your choice through a much easier and more distinct path. You as a rogue have the chance to show your raid leader how durable, consistent and utile you are through these simple abilities. Wipes and frustration are caused by deaths, and no other melee class can thwart death as well as you can. Use that to your advantage and stand out amongst the crowd as a top tier choice for progression raiding. 

 

 

I'd like to thank everyone for their interest and contribution to this forum and my efforts. An exciting time is about to begin, and although I'll be experiencing it differently than most of you, I'm excited about how the rogue class will evolve and advance. Keep focused and keep asking questions, this forum is your place to learn and grow.

 

See you at level 100!

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There are so many of you out there that think the path to raid glory is through increasing your meter damage through tiny theorycrafting tweaks, but you can secure your spot in the guild of your choice through a much easier and more distinct path. You as a rogue have the chance to show your raid leader how durable, consistent and utile you are through these simple abilities. Wipes and frustration are caused by deaths, and no other melee class can thwart death as well as you can. Use that to your advantage and stand out amongst the crowd as a top tier choice for progression raiding. 

Most accurate thing ever written

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Resistance is Volts over Amps. tongue.png

 

Awesome post Krush. I always love your insight into thing beyond just the pure theorycrafting. I'm a huge advocate for mechanics and utility over the purely dps percentile allstars. good players are so much more than just big numbers. If your raid team doesn't think so then you may want to re-think your raid team. I raided 5 nights a week at the start of MoP in a raid team that attempted new bosses 200 times before meter padding and ignoring mechanics eventually miraculously worked. I'd never do that again.

 

I miss rogue PVP'ing. I spent the last year of BC mostly pvp'ing on my rogue, and I dabbled in it again for a while in wrath. maybe I'll dust off my rogue in WoD and we can do some BG's together sometime. We'll be an impassible wall of ganking in the middle of WSG smile.png

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The key to remember, is as a rogue, you have a lot of defensive abilities, yes. But you need to learn how to use those abilities to maximize your dps. If an applicant for my guild shows up, and survives, but his dps is poor, I honestly don't care that he survived. This, to me, is what REALLY separates a good rogue from a great one. The rogue who not only uses Cloak of Shadows to survive, but the one who uses it to negate mechanics entirely to improve his dps. This of course applies to all of those very nifty defensive abilities. You do raise an excellent point though, and learning to use ALL of your defense is most certainly the first step towards improving oneself.

Edited by Defiantsoul

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I appreciate your response, but here's where you are off base.

 

A rogue that is significantly sacrificing their rotation to increase their survivability is the 1% case. I've been raiding since Tier 7 and I have never come across this type of rogue. So, setting your recruiting criteria to exclude a raider with strong defensive abilities but poor offensive abilities will work against you.

 

Hypothesizing that we do find this strange rogue, the reason that criteria will work against you is because it is far easier to teach someone their DPS rotation than to teach them defensive awareness. This is something else I know first hand. If you have a rogue that does great DPS but dies midway through every other attempt, they only way to improve that rogue is to keep bringing them into raid and yell at them, hoping they get the message. If you have a rogue doing poor DPS but surviving well, you can bring them to a practice dummy off hours and analyze their rotation to fix it. Since Cataclysm the rogue DPS rotation has been further and further simplified, but boss mechanics have not. Being defense-oriented is the skill that is more valuable and harder to obtain.

 

Finally, when is the last time your raid wiped to an enrage timer with zero deaths leading up? Only at that point would I start valuing offensive prowess over defensive awareness. If you do manage to take your raid to that point, then I agree it is time to start emphasizing offense, either by recruiting new raiders with higher DPS and similar defense or teaching those you have.

 

We can agree that there is a balance to be had, but as a GM and raid leader you are in a unique position to work against the influences of the game and create a team of well rounded raiders. There are a ton of inputs that are pressuring your raiders to improve their DPS; in game meters, combat log websites, simulators and forums like these. These will all be their motivation to improve their DPS, and none of them will mention improving defensively. You can be a very effective guide for your raid by focusing on improving their defense. Through Firelands and Dragon Soul, one of the officers in my guild would create weekly charts detailing the defensive failings of the group. There were charts of overall damage taken per boss, avoidable damage taken per boss, healthstone usage and defensive ability usage. These were the charts we wanted our raiders competing over, because if we just posted the standard overall damage done charts, we're only showing the side of the coin they already see every day from those outside inputs.

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