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Intentdarkshot

What is the best now? PVE

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Hey! With the new patch and the nerf to RoF is destruction still the best PVE spec ? 

 

What is the best spec for raiding as a Warlock and if it's still destro, do we need to cast RoF or we put it out of rotation?

Edited by Intentdarkshot

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ive been pushing on dummies and in heroic instanses with all three speccs since it released. 

 

So far i can tell Demo isnt Good for either aoe or single target compared with destro and affli.

 

Affli got loads of potential, as far as u know what u do its the best spec right now ( thats what i feel and think).

 

Destro is a good specc if u dont want to spend loads of time thinking/reading and so on. and u will still put up descent amount of dmg.  

 

AOE is a problem for all specs  if u compare it to other Classes.! but single target dps is actually pretty good.

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I can't read half of what you typed. Sorry.

 

"testing" on target dummies and in 5 mans means nothing in the grand order of theory crafting and numbers. The data pool is to small the bias to return useful information.

 

Since the hotfixes on the 25th:

 

 

Destro is dead.

 

Demo and Aff will be the top raiding specs for warlocks. The difference between Demo and Aff will be in the fight and the players skill level.

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srry for the bad typing. 

 

U say destro is dead.  

This makes me confused. Authorizied players here and there are saying the oposit thing to echother. For a newbe like me who tries to find some Facts this just make no sense.!    

 

Basicly, What specs are the one to go with and WHY! ?  thanks for the answers!

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There's a lot of hand-wringing over the nerf to Rain of Fire from yesterday.   

People are overreacting in my very humble opinion.  Numbers can (and will) be tweaked.  They wanted to take RoF out of the single target rotation, and they probably went too far: but that can be fixed.  Burning Ember generation will improve as gear improves and we get higher crit.  

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RoF nerf makes me crazy happy tbh, dead destro is good destro after a year of SoO.

 

Of course they CAN fix it and it will get better with gear, nether of that is right now though so it doesn't really matter or help.

 

Destro was very reliant on RoF, much more so then Blizz understands because well...blizz is stupid. Nerfing it as much as they did was gross over kill and displays a total lack of understanding on their part.

 

Demo and Aff buffs were nice, brings them back in to play and allows warlocks to not have to play destro and destro only. 

 

For right now, with current gear, with current hotfixes, going in to this raid, destro is dead.

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Personally I'd rather not see any of our specs "dead", especially since Aff/Demo have been perfectly viable in PvE for a long time now short of dicking around in five mans.

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RIP Destro and your shadowburn sniping sonofabitch-ass. Kinda wish we had a better spec for dungeoning though. I always felt Destro had the "best" kit for it, and they almost ninja nerfed our CM viability. But I'm on vaca for another day or two, and haven't felt the changes personally.

Also, thank God that the time of my terror guard doing a literal third of my damage are over... That was embarrassing....

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I don't enjoy playing destro -> it's ok that destro is unplayable.

 

This is some really REALLY shit logic that I'm quickly growing tired of seeing.

 

Also, Destro still destroys aff/demo in CMs and keeps up with them for sustained ST (aka most of highmaul). I think you people are underestimating how good charred remains is now. It's not dead, it's just drastically different and forced into one talent for anything but patchwerk.

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I don't enjoy playing destro -> it's ok that destro is unplayable.

 

This is some really REALLY shit logic that I'm quickly growing tired of seeing.

 

 

I think you're misreading what people are saying. 

 

 

 

Also, Destro still destroys aff/demo in CMs and keeps up with them for sustained ST (aka most of highmaul). I think you people are underestimating how good charred remains is now. It's not dead, it's just drastically different and forced into one talent for anything but patchwerk.

 

 

Destroys is to strong of a word for what it does in a CM, destro keeps up with demo (or demo keeps up with destro depending on how you want to look at it) in a CM but it doesn't destroy it by any means. Destroying Aff in a CM isn't hard to do, that's the way Aff is. Aff still does really well on bosses though.

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RoF nerf makes me crazy happy tbh, dead destro is good destro after a year of SoO.

 

What exactly did that mean if not precisely what I just said?

Edited by gahhda

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What exactly did that mean if not precisely what I just said?

 

Despite how I feel about a spec I play for the best results. I'm a raider. The feel of a spec, the enjoyability, the "fun" of it will always come second to "What spec will give me the best results for this encounter" at least on progression and long enough in to farm that it still matters.

 

After a year of SoO and being basically forced to play destro and destro only, I was strongly considering changing classes for WoD so that I didn't have to endure being something I hated for one more tier of raiding - and before the hotfixes that was what the path looked like, destro being on top of our three mediocre options.

 

RoF nerf drags destro down far enough that combined with the buffs to demo and aff make it so that we won't be forced into being destro and destro only. I.e. my option that dead destro = good destro.

 

It seems that you've now accused first Zag and now myself of hating a spec and that somehow equaling the spec being bad. Our feelings about a spec does not affect the function or viability of the spec. But we are entitled to our option that because we hate a spec, we're glad that we don't have to play it to be viable.

 

Also, so far you're the only upper level theory crafter/raider that I've seen defend destro as a spec right now. Even at that you seem to have only just changed your tone recently since it was only a day or two ago that you were saying:

 

 

MF isn't a no go.

 
Destruction is a no go.
 
If you can't play demo at 110% optimal performance it sucks ass.
Destruction does ACTUALLY NO DAMAGE for aoe now.
Affliction is simply unviable in every regard.
 
Either bitch until it gets changed, or reroll. Those are now our options as warlocks.

 

 

 

Yarv, on 25 Nov 2014 - 12:34 PM, said:

Do you guys think that the buffs given to all of our specs look good going into the first couple weeks of progression? Love to hear your thoughts.
 

 

Destro lost massive dps in every situation but patchwerk...so no.

 

 

It was a -60% nerf. I told them 3 weeks in to beta that they could nerf it by UP TO 50% AND KEEP IT A GAIN ON TWO TARGETS. 60% makes it do less damage than incinerate until 3.

 
They don't listen to feedback.
They don't play our class at all.
All of my hope is now gone.

 

 

Today you seem to have totally changed your mind and are even annoyed/angry with the rest of us who are not in line with you, yet you've done almost nothing to share your insight or spread any new information here.

 

Since you're the only one I've seen defending destro as a spec I'm interested to know why, from everything that I've seen and heard from others it has been grossly under performing compared to Demo and Aff in almost all realistic situations.

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I definitely hope that the specs can be close enough to each other to actually give people choice.

 

For most players a well played insert spec should perform better than current fotm sim chart topper. At least in heroics so far I feel like there is a lot of movement to avoid standing in stuff, and a fair number of add situations.

 

Do you think that afflictions rotation is "easier" to manage and may see people playing it because its easier to hit its peak compared to Demo?

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Do you think that afflictions rotation is "easier" to manage and may see people playing it because its easier to hit its peak compared to Demo?

 

 

Yes. As sad as it makes me to say, writing the guide for Aff almost put me to sleep. Three dots. Haunt buff (that has been made even easier by Blizz FINALLY adding Pandemic to it) spend what few extra shards you have on well timed Haunts. 

 

Aff is stunningly easy to bring out 95-98% of its max damage.

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Okay so I have mixed feeling about the whole "Destruction is dead" situation. From my own ingame experience, Destruction is still the best spec for me (just leveled up to 100 so basically no gear) but that may also come from me having no idea how to play the other specs. Kinda embarrassing, considering I mained WL in vanilla and TBC. But after that I went on a long unsure Main switching spree only to come back in WoD :D

 

I don't like the playstyle of demonology. Thats my main problem with the spec. I haven't tested afflicition yet, so I cannot say anything about that spec. Destruction has a pretty easy rotation (with the removal of RoF even easier) and does really good damage for the difficulty and the gear you need for it to perform.

 

Simulation wise the three specs are pretty equal in a patchwerk fight, with demonology being a really tiny bit above destruction and affli being a little behind destruction.

 

I think the question whether destruction is "dead" or not depends totally on how the boss fights will turn out to be. No movement and mostly ST would mean that all three specs would be viable, with more movement and more adds making destruction and affliction worse than demonology.

 

Oh and I think they overdid the nerf on RoF. It is now only viable casting at 5+ enemies (with only a minuscule dps gain versus not casting RoF) so it is basically not viable at all to cast in any situation (safe 10+ enemies stacked up or so)

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I not going to pretend to be a high end theorycrafter. But the guys who run simcraft are, yes?

 

As of 11/27 (including tunlesshe hotfixes) in 630 gear they have Demo first, Destruction 2nd (by only a few hundred) and Affliction third. In 695 gear they have Affliction first, Destro 2nd, and Demo third. The differences are fairly and at both extremes .

Simcraft isn't perfect of course. Especially for Patchwerk fights. But neither are numbers from 5 mans. We won't know until we get real numbers. But unless someone can provide a compelling argument about why the simcraft models are completely off base, I think it's too early to bury Destruction.

 

Here are the exact numbers from Simcraft:

 

Item level 630

Demonology: 18290

Destruction: 18235

Affliction: 17967

 

Item level 665

Destruction: 27204

Affliction: 27035

Demonology: 26503

 

Item level 695

Affliction: 38028

Destruction: 37913

Demonology: 37143

 

Now overall warlocks are pretty low, which is a huge cause for concern of course.  But based on those numbers at least: the difference between each spec on Patchwerk fights is tiny.  As always, individual skill (not only overall, but how good you are with one spec vs. another)  and fight mechanics will make the difference.  

 

Things may play out differently in actual raid environments - but until then I don't think we can call any spec 'dead', nor does it seem like one spec is definitively better than the others. 

Edited by Stunlocked

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The recent changes bring all 3 a lot closer together. If ever there was a time to "play the one you like", it's now.

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I not going to pretend to be a high end theorycrafter. But the guys who run simcraft are, yes?

 

As of 11/27 (including tunlesshe hotfixes) in 630 gear they have Demo first, Destruction 2nd (by only a few hundred) and Affliction third. In 695 gear they have Affliction first, Destro 2nd, and Demo third. The differences are fairly and at both extremes .

Simcraft isn't perfect of course. Especially for Patchwerk fights. But neither are numbers from 5 mans. We won't know until we get real numbers. But unless someone can provide a compelling argument about why the simcraft models are completely off base, I think it's too early to bury Destruction.

 

Here are the exact numbers from Simcraft:

 

Item level 630

Demonology: 18290

Destruction: 18235

Affliction: 17967

 

Item level 665

Destruction: 27204

Affliction: 27035

Demonology: 26503

 

Item level 695

Affliction: 38028

Destruction: 37913

Demonology: 37143

 

Now overall warlocks are pretty low, which is a huge cause for concern of course.  But based on those numbers at least: the difference between each spec on Patchwerk fights is tiny.  As always, individual skill (not only overall, but how good you are with one spec vs. another)  and fight mechanics will make the difference.  

 

Things may play out differently in actual raid environments - but until then I don't think we can call any spec 'dead', nor does it seem like one spec is definitively better than the others. 

exactly this! Now they only have to see that they need to buff warlocks as a whole and we are golden - three specs to choose from and good damage - the dream

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I still miss when Demo allowed a tank spec. 

 

So for leveling is Demo still the best like it always was? Warlock has been my main but I actually went to 100 with a druid from my freebie first.

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I feel the RoF nerf was intended to force you into Charred Remains. That is the Blizz logic of it all.

 

"Hey...we know what you locks want...how about FnB Chaos Bolts?!?!"

 

"cool!!!!"

 

"However, were really gonna make it shitty and Incin and Conflag will do a ton less damage...so you will be doing horrible damage unless you are firing off Chaos Bolts"

 

"um, yea, this isnt viable, we wont be using it, it should be fixed"

 

"Hmm, you players are right, well heres the fix, were just going to fuck up RoF so if you want ember regen you need to take Charred Remains"

 

"...Fuck..."

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I didn't raid in MoP for as long as alot of you, and I'm sure that's why i'm not terribly burned out on Destro. I find it a fun, light 'arcadey' spec. Or at least I did until a couple days ago. I'm glad RoF is out of ST, but seriously:

 

We. have. no. ember. gen. 

 

A week ago felt more or less like the SoO days, where I'd be lobbing off a CB at 3.5 embers and waiting (briefly) for my burn phase. Now I spend most of my time spamming incin while watching my embers trickle in at a rate of 1 bit per work order. I've literally taken to standing closer to the boss because of Incinerate's travel time. 

 

I shouldn't have to fill up on embers before a boss fight in order to have a decent opener either. 

 

/end rantxaggeration

Edited by Copperbad

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When I first read the patchnotes on destro I was like goddamnit blizz.

But after running through a few heroics today, I have to say that, imo it doesnt feel as bad as I thought it would.

Sure, aoe'ing is somewhat of a bitch now, because of the incredibly nerfed ember gen, but I am absolutely doing more singletarget dps noe that the base abilites are buffed.

Will give affli a go this weekend, but destro is still a decent spec, if you ask me :)

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so im running CR now...its actually pretty nice

 

Are you using it in boss fights too? or are you swapping talents between trash and boss?

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