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Intentdarkshot

What is the best now? PVE

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Apologies if I missed anything (it's late) but for a general understanding of what I make from these posts. I'm trying to plan my dual spec for raid week, and it's going badly. Having eared up 100% for destro, I have a lot of crit, multistrike and some mastery. I've been trying Demo this past week and I just don't like it. I'm probably just bad at it, but it doesn't do great. It's like you learning how to ride a horse only to go just as fast as your bike took you. Want to try Aff this week and get the feeling it will be good on bosses (raid) when they come.

TL;DR DUAL SPEC! Am I right in saying:

 

Destro -Sac/Cata is a good trash/AoE spec. (Blow stuff up, stack embers to do it again)

Aff - Sac/Haunt is a good boss spec. (Keep him DoTted, mobility, DoT adds without loosing boss dmg)

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Are you using it in boss fights too? or are you swapping talents between trash and boss?

yes,

 

That feels abotu the same as pre nerf. Obviously incin and conflag do less damage but im launching a ton more CBs

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Warlock feels shitty as of now.

 

Demon playstyle is weird and not rewarding at all, aff is boring as hell with no snapshotting and destruction is just broken.

 

 

Guess we had it coming, we've been in a really cool spot since Firelands, hope we're shitty only for a patch.

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Psh locks have always been in a cool spot.  Locks 4 life!

 

 

I agree that Aff feels less fun without snapshotting, that said I'll play it if/when it is on top again.  I'm getting used to Demo.  I don't like the stance dancing aspect, preferring the Cata model where it was a hard CD that was reduced w/crits or casts.

 

But w/e I'll play whatever spec is solid at the moment.

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yes,

 

That feels abotu the same as pre nerf. Obviously incin and conflag do less damage but im launching a ton more CBs

 

Exactly what I saw this evening. It's funny that taking the talent that's meant to send our resource gen to obscene levels is pretty much the same experience as not taking the talent was a week ago. 

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... Here are the exact numbers from Simcraft:

 

Item level 630

Demonology: 18290

Destruction: 18235

Affliction: 17967

 

Item level 665

Destruction: 27204

Affliction: 27035

Demonology: 26503

 

Item level 695

Affliction: 38028

Destruction: 37913

Demonology: 37143

 

...

Thank you for the first informative post regarding the OP's question.  The truth: none of the spec's are "dead," and certainly not destruction.  I'm glad that destruction is no longer dominant because I truthfully don't like playing it.  But before I change back to my favorite (affliction), I'm going to wait to see how this all shakes out.  My guess is that Blizzard is going to improve destruction because it is the easiest to play and we have a lot of new locks out there.  When that happens, I hope to go back to affliction if it isn't nerfed by too much.  

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When that happens, I hope to go back to affliction if it isn't nerfed by too much.  

The latest simcraft results show affliction to be ahead of demo and destro for Normal/Heroic and Mythic.

T17N

T17M

Of course, as with all the simulations and Patchwerk fights, real fights will show which spec will be best/ best applicable. 

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The latest simcraft results show affliction to be ahead of demo and destro for Normal/Heroic and Mythic.

T17N

T17M

Of course, as with all the simulations and Patchwerk fights, real fights will show which spec will be best/ best applicable. 

 

 

That's kind of misleading though tbh. Those Sims are using gear that isn't available till at least mid Janurary, thus have no applicable meaning till then. The tier items change not only the numbers but the rotations of all specs as well. These numbers have no useful meaning until the next raid is available and things will likely have changed a bit by then.

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From what I have done in heroics so far, I still think that Destro is higher than Demo according to my playstyle... your results may vary and just going from heroic dungeons.

 

I'm a big fan of Demo, before the beta nerfs I was very much looking forward to the demo buffs to be able to play it again. I'm just either not doing something correctly or not using Demonbolt effectively. Which disappoints me because I was looking to get away from Destro for at least a while. It also could be that right now they are so close that I'm seeing low numbers because I'm out of practice compared to Destro, which is most likely the case.

 

I have not been using charred remains because to me, just glancing at my meter, the overall damage seems to go down the longer the fight goes. It seems like I get a more consistant - higher number with Sup-Serv. Keep in mind, I dont use SimC or anything like that. Just from personal experience.

 

Haven't tried Affliction but I have never really been a fan of it, may give it a go sooner or later, but Destro will be my go to spec for opening night tonight.

 

I will probably go with Sac-Cata for trash and Sup-Serv for bosses tonight to see how that works.

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I kinda like CR because you are using the key ability of the spec a lot more, however the fact it nerfs incin and conflag so much is shitty. But the whole talent is such a crutch and i feel like i like it because i have to...because they screwed up all other options for it. It looks and sounds nice, but its still not where I would like it.

 

Blizz is good at baking shit filled twinkies.

 

It still feels better than Demo, granted, i dont play Demo very well, because i never had to and just dont have the time invested in it. But it just feels like you are doing way too much for the lackluster results. Its the whole back and forth between meta and normal that seem to add to my confusion. I know i can get better with it if i wanted to...but i really dont want to just because it continually ends up being the lowest dps spec.

Edited by vaeevictiss

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we have another warlock in guild who rarely changes anything, and is running destro with buffed terrorguard.  He's consistently good so I use him as a barometer when trying stuff out.  I always pass on gear and get it last, so he outgears me slightly, and I was able to slightly outdps him as demo, however on the butcher I tried out charred remains since there is little movement involved in that for casters and got crushed by him that fight. 

 

I'm sure that I didn't play it optimally but it wasn't even close.  When I switch to destro for certain fights, like brackenspore where destro seemed better than demo, I'll be going with the terrorguard.

 

I did better in demo on tectus also.  That's all we got to last night, servers crashed on us and cut raid super short.

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https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/7HcRfjbDVqtxyYGX#fight=29

 

Just going to leave this here, basically my guilds normal run for about 2 hours last night. This is the first time seeing the fight for all of the warlocks and gives a decent benchmark as we are all pretty solid raiders. 

 

My thoughts: Demonology- Amazing burst and incredible sustained damage, but requires a high degree of decision making. Overall good dps but you have to work for it. I'm not kidding though, the burst is really high.

 

                     Destruction- Not dead, zero aoe though which offers nothing as far as raid utility (but if you have enough dk's its honestly not a problem. Strong point is the amount of sustained damaged via the Demonic Servitude/ Go-Sup combo. I am honestly surprised it hasn't been nerfed because its overpowered. 

Edited by Baifer

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after a 5 years break (stopped playing on November 2009) I came back shortly before WoD was released. I leveled my deathknight to lvl 90 and after the release bought the expansion. i always wanted to play a warlock but was always too lazy to level one. So i used the +90 to make a warlock. i have chosen destruction.

 

boy, is that spec easy and kinda boring to play. im only used to playing a mage (mostly fire) and a deathknight (mostly blood). playing a warlock feels so one dimensional and I cant move at all. a melee gets to me and im kinda fucked. was that pre-wod also the case? i remember warlocks to be quite badass. in general, wow now feels extremely easy to play, much less choices and with easy rotations, easy pve and easy mobs.

 

any chance that a future patch makes it more interesting to play a warlock? sure you cant tell, but give me some hope :-)

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any chance that a future patch makes it more interesting to play a warlock? sure you cant tell, but give me some hope :-)

Unless things get particularly ridiculous, there's only one direction to go at this point. I'm certainly planning on weathering the storm :D

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I have something id like to ask you guys. Is it wrong of me to tell warlock the glyph of syphon life is a waste of a slot. <_< I know people can do what they want...but crunching some numbers that heal is pathetic and that was assuming no overheal..... 

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I have something id like to ask you guys. Is it wrong of me to tell warlock the glyph of syphon life is a waste of a slot. dry.png I know people can do what they want...but crunching some numbers that heal is pathetic and that was assuming no overheal..... 

In fairness, most Major Glyphs are wasting a slot.

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I have something id like to ask you guys. Is it wrong of me to tell warlock the glyph of syphon life is a waste of a slot. dry.png I know people can do what they want...but crunching some numbers that heal is pathetic and that was assuming no overheal..... 

 

 

I would disagree with you, I've used the glyph and Harvest Life a few times to great effect.

 

Last time I used it was 3rd or 4th day after release when my server was screwed over by getting Skyreach as the daily CM. Me and my 4 guild mates were in there 15-20 ilvls under geared and trying to do the second boss. Going Aff with Harvest Life and Glyph of Drain Life gave me about 21k HPS totally removing the need for the healer to even look at me as I was standing in the beams and eating burst with no CDs.

 

Sure, my damage took a nuking, but the DPS of a body on the floor is always worse.

 

Using Glyph of Drain life is uncommon, but it does have a place and isn't a total waste of a slot. I commonly have it during progression raids as a "just in case". It's saved me a lot of times over the years X mechanic cut me off from the healers and I started to take a DoT or pulsing or some other damage and needed to save myself.

 

 

 

EDIT: And now that I reread this I see you said Syphon Life...not Drain Life....my bad.

 

Yes, IMO, Syphon Life is fairly freaking useless. I used it a couple of times when I was running a VERY high haste build Aff in MoP but that was it. Even then it did almost no healing.

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@Locky When you started off that post with the disagree part I almost fleww off my chair like ay man I dont care how cool your name is!!! That thing is crap!! lol XD But yea I just was wondering.

 

Also, what about the first talent. Soul Leech? Its not crap but its def weaker now than before with how the damage+health ratios have changed. Its more difficult to build a respectable shield now than before, and if anything damages somewhat consistently  youll never build one. I feel like the other two are better to have more control.

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Soul Leech for old content is amazing. For current stuff I've been using Dark Regeneration. Paired with a glyphed cookie the healing is intense.

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Soul Leech for old content is amazing. For current stuff I've been using Dark Regeneration. Paired with a glyphed cookie the healing is intense.

Soul leech felt great in MoP. Seemed to always eat a fourth of a medium strength spell or so before it ever hit your health pool. Nowadays, feels like it struggles to even stay on you unless it's like, butcher or something with literally no unavoidable damage, which looks rare from my experience. I've looked at swapping to dark regen, but I haven't combed the logs for exactly how much total damage I'm mitigating. Side note: it was also ninja-nerfed with everyone (and by that I mean you, kazi, and me, totally disregarding the 25 destro locks I've seen in pugs)* playing demo now since it only applies to shadow bolt and that's literally your last resort.

*One of whom was running cataclysm.... On Kargath... Normal.... And not going to the stands... And thought terror guard was only a dps increase for demo... Even after I was in chain gang... And beating him in boss damage... With my wrath guard....(had to share this here... I laughed so hard I cried)

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Soul Leech had higher value when raids had spikier damage (MoP) and a hit could drop you from 100% to 40% if you were a non-Warlock.  Warlocks with Soul Leech absorbed tons of damage and laughed it off.  We were incredibly overpowered with Soul Leech + Sacrifical Pact.

 

In WoD, while my raiding experience is limited, I haven't run into a lot of shit that one shot me.  Not even in Challenge Modes.  Almost anything gave me ample time to recover.  With a glyphed Healthstone and Dark Regeneration, I could tell the healer to ignore me so he could continue healing up other people.  There seems to be a lot more gradual damage, so Soul Leech is OK, but I prefer DR for controlled recuperation.  

 

Another overshadowed talent is Mortal Coil - that 15% heal on 45 second CD is not to be ignored.  When you don't need Shadowfury because you don't need stuns or better stuns exist in your group (Remorseless, Cap Totem, Leg Sweep, etc.), that 15% heal can make a Warlock very survivable.  

 

 

*One of whom was running cataclysm.... On Kargath... Normal.... And not going to the stands... And thought terror guard was only a dps increase for demo... Even after I was in chain gang... And beating him in boss damage... With my wrath guard....(had to share this here... I laughed so hard I cried)

You're going to run into a lot of people who don't know what they're doing AT ALL.  Specs have been driven down to the ground that make playing up to 75-90% very achievable even by people who couldn't do 40-50% in MoP.  Where they will stick out is their justification of the talents, spells they use, and the places they died.  Sounds like you ran into one of those people who refuse to look things up and justify their clearly non-researched decision.

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Yeah. The damage/healing paradigm is incredibly different, and I'll probably swap to dark regen come my next raid, if only to try it out. Just so used to how good the passive shielding was, and the amount of random raids I've joined has given me a lot of exposure, so I'm sure real raiding guilds will be at least a little better.

Isn't mortal coil bugged? I switched to it on the butcher the other day and when I tried to use it, no spell would cast. I stood around for a good 3 seconds trying to heal myself without being able to get the spell off for some reason. Maybe I'm crazy, I haven't really tried to cast it too many times outside of that.

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Isn't mortal coil bugged? I switched to it on the butcher the other day and when I tried to use it, no spell would cast. I stood around for a good 3 seconds trying to heal myself without being able to get the spell off for some reason. Maybe I'm crazy, I haven't really tried to cast it too many times outside of that.

I didn't know it was bugged.  I'm on day 9 of my 11 day excursion, so I'm trying to get back into the swing of things.  I'm in their tiny ass little library catching up on threads and bugs and there's too much.  I guess banking on an ability working is too much right now.  I'm almost glad I missed the week of Dark Soul and MC not working.  

 

I'd report the MC thing as a bug and try to get some exposure so it's resolved.  

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I didn't know it was bugged.  I'm on day 9 of my 11 day excursion, so I'm trying to get back into the swing of things.  I'm in their tiny ass little library catching up on threads and bugs and there's too much.  I guess banking on an ability working is too much right now.  I'm almost glad I missed the week of Dark Soul and MC not working.  

 

I'd report the MC thing as a bug and try to get some exposure so it's resolved.

My bad. Thought you had come back already. Then again, I had a heart attack seeing locky's logs without your name on them when I knew you were gone. Lol.

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Wouldn't get too excited to see my logs next week. I'm fighting from 639 which is where I was tuesday before Thanksgiving. But I'll be up there with the best of them real soon. Can't wait to see my armory stalkers return.

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