Contagion

Unholy vs Frost Death Knight PvE

11 posts in this topic

    Hey, I am Contagion of Darkspear. Just attempted Highmaul for the first time today, and while I was top of my raid in DPS as Frost, I was WAY behind others who had similar ilvl who played Unholy. I have an ilvl of 640 and averaged around 17k DPS. While looking at the world of logs, I noticed there are people with 635 ilvl who are pulling 30k+ DPS as Unholy. Now I know Unholy is better for dps, and I played it for a long time. I just don't understand how. When I play it, I get around 13k, which is less than my Frost spec. I have read basically every guide out there, theory crafted with my guild for hours, done hours upon hours of testing, to no avail. I simply can't get my DPS up near where these other people are. I can't even get it to surpass my Frost, which is vastly inferior to Unholy.

My rotation is as follows;

 

-Soul Reaper on targets at/below 45%

-Outbreak to apply diseases

-Defile

-Festering Strike x2 to convert frost/blood runes to death

-Scourge Strike to dump unholy/death runes

-Death Coil when sudden doom procs, or at 90+ RP

-Gargoyle on CD

-Plague Leech when low on RP and out of runes, reapply diseases with Outbreak

-Rinse and Repeat

 

Again, I don't understand how people are pulling so much. Would anyone care to help me out? Am I missing something? Am I doing something wrong? Am I just retarded? What is going on. It is baffling. I seem to just lack DPS when it should be there. Quite frustrating.

 

My armory: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/darkspear/Contagion/advanced

 

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

 

-Contagion.

Edited by Contagion

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can imagine 3 possibilities:

 

1. You don't mention soul reaper. With unholy with enemies at 45% health you can begin casting soul reaper. This is almost the top priority for unholy dks (next to defile) or if you use a different talent, it is top priority. This hits like a freight train.

 

2. Defile. Defile is powerful HOWEVER it does have a major drawback. The enemy has to baste in it. If you drop defile and tank moves the enemy out of the way say goodbye to a large portion of your dps that fight. Defile has to be used on CD yes but it has to be used accurately, otherwise, you'll bottom out quick.

 

3. Multistrike - Your multistrike isn't bad at 18% but of course we want a lot more a lot lot more. You have an open socket you aren't using and not everything that can be enchanted is. Gems spots in WoD are sorta rare now so enchants are a big thing. 

 

4. Okay so, 4th one. Are you using pots? Are you using food? These are small difference but add up.

 

Edited for 5th one:

Don't save rune power until 90. Spam death coil as soon as possible. Getting timmy to digivolve is a big priority and there is no benefit in pooling rune power.

Edited by demonardvark

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can imagine 3 possibilities:

 

1. You don't mention soul reaper. With unholy with enemies at 45% health you can begin casting soul reaper. This is almost the top priority for unholy dks (next to defile) or if you use a different talent, it is top priority. This hits like a freight train.

 

2. Defile. Defile is powerful HOWEVER it does have a major drawback. The enemy has to baste in it. If you drop defile and tank moves the enemy out of the way say goodbye to a large portion of your dps that fight. Defile has to be used on CD yes but it has to be used accurately, otherwise, you'll bottom out quick.

 

3. Multistrike - Your multistrike isn't bad at 18% but of course we want a lot more a lot lot more. You have an open socket you aren't using and not everything that can be enchanted is. Gems spots in WoD are sorta rare now so enchants are a big thing. 

 

4. Okay so, 4th one. Are you using pots? Are you using food? These are small difference but add up.

 

Edited for 5th one:

Don't save rune power until 90. Spam death coil as soon as possible. Getting timmy to digivolve is a big priority and there is no benefit in pooling rune power.

I do use Soul Reaper, Just forgot to mention it in the post(now edited). I have it nearly constantly applied on targets at or below 50%-45%. Depending on how fast they are going down.

I have defile on CD, and 9 out of 10 times the boss will stand in it for the duration.

Alright, I'll go get what I can enchanted.

Yes, I was full buffed, food buffed, and had the whispering crystal (+100 stats)

Edited by Contagion

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not necessarily related to the issues that you are seeing, but the crystal only increases stats by 100. The tooltip hasn't been updated.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not necessarily related to the issues that you are seeing, but the crystal only increases stats by 100. The tooltip hasn't been updated.

Hm. In that case would a flask of strength be more effective? since it sits at 250 strength?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For raids, definitely go with flasks. There are going to be wipes as fights are being learnt and flask effect persists through death. You could possibly go with the lesser flasks for normal and switch to greater for heroic / mythic if you don't want to spend too much on them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

oh one more thing, that I am not 100% sure on (so don't kill me if im wrong) but i think now pvp gear scales down in pve content, so your ring is a pvp ring and i believe that now gets weaker when you raid... not 100% on that though

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

oh one more thing, that I am not 100% sure on (so don't kill me if im wrong) but i think now pvp gear scales down in pve content, so your ring is a pvp ring and i believe that now gets weaker when you raid... not 100% on that though

I don't believe so. I scale UP in PvP, but remains at it's base ilvl in PvE. In essence, it is a 660 ring, which was better than the 636 I had. Someone in my guild ran this by me as well, did ilvl and stat comparisons in a dungeon to test.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

UPDATE: turns out World of Logs is just buggy. The top Unholy DPS is actually pulling 23k, instead of 30k. I had a lengthy conversation with him, and turns out I am just not using soul reaper enough. He also has a trinket that grants a CRAZY amount of strength. Also, upon returning to highmaul as Unholy, I was pulling an average of 18k, so I am only behind by a few thousand, as opposed to 15k.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have seen some logs here and there of Unholy doing 27-30k, but they're honestly just outliers. If you take the average of 90th percentile at the heroic level you're looking at 24k dps for Unholy and 21k dps for Frost. Unholy is definitely ahead by enough that even the best Frost players will have a difficult time beating an average Unholy DK, like statistically proven and everything 60th percentile unholy is 21k and almost exactly even with a 90th percentile frost.

 

The legnedary PVP ring is 660 in PVE, and will be better than a normal ring, asside from maybe a 655 Multistrike+Mastery ring, but I don't know if there are any of those.

 

I have a weak aura I've been working on that puts the whole unholy rotation on the screen, ability by ability, and makes buttons flash in real time. It isn't completely finished yet, and even when it is finish it won't be 100% perfect, but having only put 2-3 hours into making it so far, I've already gotten my unholy dps from 15k up to 18k. When I get home tonight I'm going to work on putting the last couple of cooldowns into it, and then I'll share it with everyone else.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Similar Content

    • By Archimage
      Wanted to share this:
       
    • By Fenodoree
      Hi everyone. I've a question, What spect should we roll for 7.1.5?
      So patch notes for 7.1.5 (November the 29th) are out.
      And I have 2 things to remark
      1.Strong buff to Arcane Mana cost for Arcane Blast has been reduced from 125% to 60% per Arcane Charge, since they are mana dependent. This does not apply It Was a tooltip bug.
      2.Almost all fire skills were buffed in damage, Fireball,Flame Blast, PyroBlast, Scorch, FlameStrike, CinderStorm,Meteor,Conflag and Phoenix's Flames. BUT Critical Mass % was reduced from 15% to 10% and Pyretic Incantation was nerfed from 5% per stack  to 2% per stack = 15%  less damage from consecutive Critical Strikes.
      I haven't done the math yet, but since Arcane has gotten a lot of buffs lately, and Fire is getting "balanced" (Since i've no idea how the patch will afect fire dps), and Frost Topping dps in rankings, and with no significant buffs or nerfs in the patch notes i suppose they will stay in tops.
      So if anyone would be so kind to enlighten me what spect you guys think it would be the best for 7.1.5 and why.
       
       
       
       
       
       
    • By Sappora
      Methodical is in search of dedicated players that are looking to push content in a semi-hardcore environment. All of our raiders try to be on a first-name basis with each other. Our raids are very fun when it comes to farm and carries, however, we do clean up when it's time for progression. When it comes to raiding we do provide benefits, paid for by selling carries. 
      All-in-all we are looking for players willing to: consistently improve their performance, take responsibility, and synergize with a group of players. If this interests you, all of our info is below.
      Information:
      Guild: Methodical
      Creation: 2013
      Server: Bleeding Hollow
      Faction: Horde
      VoIP: Discord
      Website: http://www.methodical-guild.net
      Raids:
      Raid Progression: 4/7 M EN 2/3 H ToV
      Raid Dates: Monday, Tuesday, Thursday.
      Raid Times: 9:30P-12:30A EST (Be online by 9:15P)
      Benefits:
      Spirit Cauldrons
      Potion Program
      Extensive Raid Repairs
      Recruitment:
      The below are just current needs, we are accepting all exceptional players.
      Tanks: N/A, looking for OS tanks and subs.
      Ranged: Boomkin & Others , & looking for subs
      Melee: Open (Non-Leather), & looking for subs.
      Healers: Restoration Shaman, looking for subs.
      If interested please contact one of the players listed below we can give information about: Bleeding Hollow, Methodical, and our raids. 
      Contact Info:
      Merkshow#1993 (GM)
      Sappora#1724 (Recruitment)
      Franny#1457 (Officer)
      Borlax#1380 (Officer)
       
    • By Tazinas
      So I've just changed my spec from elemental to enhancement which means I still have some crit chance in the sockets.
      My problem is that I think I'm not doing as much dps as I should with my current gear :
       http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/dun-morogh/Tazînas/advanced
      Logs from the last raid :
      https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/wFA1DCt68Q7PBZH4/#fight=1&type=damage-done
       
      Would be nice if someone could tell me what I can do better / where to improve :)
       
    • By Jaeden
      Former Blood and Frost DK, back in action.  Things have changed a LOT since I had to spec into DW Frost ;)
      Here is the armory:
      http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/malfurion/Nuadda/advanced
      Here is my current rotation for World Quest/overworld play(outside of dungeons):
      HB to Open->OB->OB->RW->FS until RP exhausted/OB is available(I forget to use PoF unless I am going after a rare or planning a aoe burst).
      Should I use KM procs for FSc since I have that in my spec?
      I'm having the following main issues:
      1. I seem to be Rune starved, so that's why I am hitting FS so much.
      2. Survivability can sometimes be an issue if I am not using RW on each cooldown.
      3. Recently got this as my first legendary, unsure if I should actually use it:
      http://us.battle.net/wow/en/item/132452
       
      So far the plan is to gather heroic upgrades and patch the class gear, but will welcome any suggestions