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ivMaxi

Feral dps WAY behind simcraft

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Simcraft says my dps on Patchwerk fight should be ~22k
In the most recent Normal mode Butcher logs, i'm pulling 17-18k.
Was wondering what i could do to fix the discrepancy and if anyone could help me pinpoint the difference so i could fix it

Using a rotation that is basically the same as in guide on this forum

This is not a gear/spec question, rather a question of performance in current gear/spec being worse than optimal and how to find out why - what to look at in logs and in simcraft report etc

Links to logs:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/1g78BM6nxjNAqYcy#fight=2&type=damage-done&source=9
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/HjBD2Gg9Xz6YL4hJ#fight=4&type=damage-done&source=10

Simcraft profile

druid="Philaoe_Active"

origin="http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/ravenholdt/Philaoe/advanced"

thumbnail="http://eu.battle.net/static-render/eu/scarshield-legion/20/110402068-avatar.jpg"

level=100

race=night_elf

role=attack

position=back

professions=leatherworking=274/enchanting=502

talents=http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/tool/talent-calculator#UZ!0011211

glyphs=savage_roar/dash/cat_form/grace/travel/predator

spec=feral

 

# This default action priority list is automatically created based on your character.

# It is a attempt to provide you with a action list that is both simple and practicable,

# while resulting in a meaningful and good simulation. It may not result in the absolutely highest possible dps.

# Feel free to edit, adapt and improve it to your own needs.

# SimulationCraft is always looking for updates and improvements to the default action lists.

 

# Executed before combat begins. Accepts non-harmful actions only.

 

actions.precombat=flask,type=greater_draenic_agility_flask

actions.precombat+=/food,type=blackrock_barbecue

actions.precombat+=/mark_of_the_wild,if=!aura.str_agi_int.up

actions.precombat+=/healing_touch,if=talent.bloodtalons.enabled

actions.precombat+=/cat_form

actions.precombat+=/prowl

# Snapshot raid buffed stats before combat begins and pre-potting is done.

actions.precombat+=/snapshot_stats

actions.precombat+=/potion,name=draenic_agility

 

# Executed every time the actor is available.

 

actions=cat_form

actions+=/wild_charge

actions+=/displacer_beast,if=movement.distance>10

actions+=/dash,if=movement.distance&buff.displacer_beast.down&buff.wild_charge_movement.down

actions+=/rake,if=buff.prowl.up|buff.shadowmeld.up

actions+=/auto_attack

actions+=/skull_bash

actions+=/force_of_nature,if=charges=3|trinket.proc.all.react|target.time_to_die<20

actions+=/potion,name=draenic_agility,if=target.time_to_die<=40

actions+=/blood_fury,sync=tigers_fury

actions+=/berserking,sync=tigers_fury

actions+=/arcane_torrent,sync=tigers_fury

actions+=/tigers_fury,if=(!buff.omen_of_clarity.react&energy.max-energy>=60)|energy.max-energy>=80

actions+=/incarnation,if=cooldown.berserk.remains<10&energy.time_to_max>1

actions+=/potion,name=draenic_agility,sync=berserk,if=target.health.pct<25

actions+=/berserk,if=buff.tigers_fury.up

actions+=/shadowmeld,if=dot.rake.remains<4.5&energy>=35&dot.rake.pmultiplier<2&(buff.bloodtalons.up|!talent.bloodtalons.enabled)&(!talent.incarnation.enabled|cooldown.incarnation.remains>15)&!buff.king_of_the_jungle.up

# Keep Rip from falling off during execute range.

actions+=/ferocious_bite,cycle_targets=1,if=dot.rip.ticking&dot.rip.remains<3&target.health.pct<25

actions+=/healing_touch,if=talent.bloodtalons.enabled&buff.predatory_swiftness.up&(combo_points>=4|buff.predatory_swiftness.remains<1.5)

actions+=/savage_roar,if=buff.savage_roar.remains<3

actions+=/thrash_cat,cycle_targets=1,if=buff.omen_of_clarity.react&remains<4.5&active_enemies>1

actions+=/thrash_cat,cycle_targets=1,if=!talent.bloodtalons.enabled&combo_points=5&remains<4.5&buff.omen_of_clarity.react

actions+=/pool_resource,for_next=1

actions+=/thrash_cat,cycle_targets=1,if=remains<4.5&active_enemies>1

actions+=/call_action_list,name=finisher,if=combo_points=5

actions+=/call_action_list,name=maintain

actions+=/call_action_list,name=generator,if=combo_points<5

 

actions.finisher=ferocious_bite,cycle_targets=1,max_energy=1,if=target.health.pct<25&dot.rip.ticking

actions.finisher+=/rip,cycle_targets=1,if=remains<3&target.time_to_die-remains>18

actions.finisher+=/rip,cycle_targets=1,if=remains<7.2&persistent_multiplier>dot.rip.pmultiplier&target.time_to_die-remains>18

actions.finisher+=/savage_roar,if=(energy.time_to_max<=1|buff.berserk.up|cooldown.tigers_fury.remains<3)&buff.savage_roar.remains<12.6

actions.finisher+=/ferocious_bite,max_energy=1,if=(energy.time_to_max<=1|buff.berserk.up|cooldown.tigers_fury.remains<3)

 

actions.maintain=rake,cycle_targets=1,if=!talent.bloodtalons.enabled&remains<3&combo_points<5&((target.time_to_die-remains>3&active_enemies<3)|target.time_to_die-remains>6)

actions.maintain+=/rake,cycle_targets=1,if=!talent.bloodtalons.enabled&remains<4.5&combo_points<5&persistent_multiplier>dot.rake.pmultiplier&((target.time_to_die-remains>3&active_enemies<3)|target.time_to_die-remains>6)

actions.maintain+=/rake,cycle_targets=1,if=talent.bloodtalons.enabled&remains<4.5&combo_points<5&(!buff.predatory_swiftness.up|buff.bloodtalons.up|persistent_multiplier>dot.rake.pmultiplier)&((target.time_to_die-remains>3&active_enemies<3)|target.time_to_die-remains>6)

actions.maintain+=/thrash_cat,cycle_targets=1,if=talent.bloodtalons.enabled&combo_points=5&remains<4.5&buff.omen_of_clarity.react

actions.maintain+=/moonfire_cat,cycle_targets=1,if=combo_points<5&remains<4.2&active_enemies<6&target.time_to_die-remains>tick_time*5

actions.maintain+=/rake,cycle_targets=1,if=persistent_multiplier>dot.rake.pmultiplier&combo_points<5&active_enemies=1

 

actions.generator=swipe,if=active_enemies>=3

actions.generator+=/shred,if=active_enemies<3

 

head=crown_of_woe,id=118941

neck=stormshot_choker,id=109950,bonus_id=41/523/524,gems=35crit,enchant=40crit

shoulders=supple_shoulderguards,id=116176,bonus_id=74/525/535

back=dark_night_cloak,id=119013,bonus_id=224,enchant=100crit

chest=blackwater_wrap,id=109898,bonus_id=499/523/524,gems=35crit

wrists=bracers_of_burning_focus,id=109868,bonus_id=524

hands=leafmender_grips,id=109851,bonus_id=499/524

waist=leafmender_girdle,id=109832,bonus_id=524

legs=bloodfeather_leggings,id=109810,bonus_id=40/499/523/524,gems=35crit

feet=railwalker_boots,id=118956,bonus_id=140

finger1=timeless_solium_band_of_the_assassin,id=118297,enchant=50crit

finger2=dark_night_band,id=119007,bonus_id=159/563,gems=35crit,enchant=30crit

trinket1=witherbarks_branch,id=109999,bonus_id=524

trinket2=primal_combatants_insignia_of_conquest,id=115150

main_hand=chasmwrench_docking_hook,id=110059,bonus_id=524,enchant=mark_of_the_shattered_hand

 

# Gear Summary

# gear_agility=1872

# gear_stamina=2675

# gear_crit_rating=1097

# gear_haste_rating=624

# gear_mastery_rating=55

# gear_armor=843

# gear_multistrike_rating=493

# gear_versatility_rating=569

# gear_leech_rating=54

# gear_avoidance_rating=101

Edited by ivMaxi

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At a first glance (I'm using your Butcher logs here)

 

Your dot uptime is very low. Rip 93%, Moonfire 91%, Rake 77%. These all need to be 97% or higher on a patchwerk boss.

 

You are using Lunar Inspiration instead of Bloodtalons, and appear to be using Soul of the Forest. These are both incorrect. In single target (and almost every other scenario) you want to be using Incarnation and Bloodtalons.

 

Someone who knows how to use warcraft logs better could tell you more, but these are two glaring ones i've noticed.

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I see some major differences.  

 

First, in the SimCraft profile you have choosen Incarnation and Bloodtalons, but in the fight, you used Soul of the Forest and Lunar Inspiration.  On a single target fight, this is a big no-no.  Soul of the Forest is inferior to Incarnation in every situation right now and Lunar Inspiration is only viable on very situational multi-target fights.

 

Your kill on Saturday, you only used Berserk 1 time when you could have used it 2, given the amount of time the fight lasted.

 

You are opening with Moonfire.  You should be going into stealth and opening with Rake.

 

You only have 1 use of a potion in each fight.  To maximize you should be using your second potion along with Berserk & hopefully another trinket proc.

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The Lunar Inspiration was a conscious choice, given that our guild doesn't have problems on Butcher, and Lunar Inspiration seems to be better for all fights surrounding it (Tectus, Brackenspore, Twins). Though i do agree that something like Mythic Butcher would definitely require Bloodtalons spec.

Haven't specced out of SoF yet, because i am constantly finding myself not having enough energy for stuff (which hurts my rotation and dot uptime) and figure - better have more energy than Incarnation until my rotation is solid. Your recommendation is to just spec Incarnation and remove the energy crutch?

So, as i understand it, you are saying that correcting the following should give me 20k+ dps on Butcher:

- (major) fixing dot uptime to 97%+

- (moderate) Incarnation and Bloodtalons
- (moderate) better tracking of Berserk, stacking second Berserk with trinket and potion use
- (minor) not having opener and prepot screwed up by ninjapull

Will see what i can do regarding that
Thanks for the advice

Edited by ivMaxi

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The Lunar Inspiration was a conscious choice, given that our guild doesn't have problems on Butcher, and Lunar Inspiration seems to be better for all fights surrounding it (Tectus, Brackenspore, Twins). Though i do agree that something like Mythic Butcher would definitely require Bloodtalons spec.

Haven't specced out of SoF yet, because i am constantly finding myself not having enough energy for stuff (which hurts my rotation and dot uptime) and figure - better have more energy than Incarnation until my rotation is solid. Your recommendation is to just spec Incarnation and remove the energy crutch?

So, as i understand it, you are saying that correcting the following should give me 20k+ dps on Butcher:

- (major) fixing dot uptime to 97%+

- (moderate) Incarnation and Bloodtalons

- (moderate) better tracking of Berserk, stacking second Berserk with trinket and potion use

- (minor) not having opener and prepot screwed up by ninjapull

Will see what i can do regarding that

Thanks for the advice

 

Correct talents are a major thing. Lunar inspiration in most cases is not better for those other bosses, and there is no reason to ever not use Incarnation. The difference between a Lunar+SotF and a Bloodtalons+Incarn build is something like 15-20% more damage on most people, it's rather ridiculous.

 

If this interests you, this is what I consider the optimal opener:

 

1: (Pre-Pull) Cast Healing touch to gain 2 stacks of Bloodtalons

2: (Pre-Pull) Stealth

3: (Pre-Pull) Use your Draenic Agility Potion

4: (On-Pull) Rake

5: Incarnation (Any trinkets would also be used here)

6: Berserk on the GCD after Incarnation, as you cast Shred

7: Shred to 5 Combo Points, use Tiger's Fury when at 70 energy

8: Rip

9: Shred until you have 4+ Combo points

10: Healing Touch

11: If at 4 combo points, Rake then Ferocious Bite. If at 5 combo points, Ferocious Bite then Rake

12: Repeat steps 9-11, using a Shred instead of Rake if Rake does not need re-application

13: When Incarnation is about to fall off, use Shred or Rake to refresh Savage Roar

Edited by Bradykin

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The Lunar Inspiration was a conscious choice, given that our guild doesn't have problems on Butcher, and Lunar Inspiration seems to be better for all fights surrounding it (Tectus, Brackenspore, Twins). Though i do agree that something like Mythic Butcher would definitely require Bloodtalons spec.

Haven't specced out of SoF yet, because i am constantly finding myself not having enough energy for stuff (which hurts my rotation and dot uptime) and figure - better have more energy than Incarnation until my rotation is solid. Your recommendation is to just spec Incarnation and remove the energy crutch?

As Bradykin said,

Incarnation and BT are the king talents right now.

 

Not having energy is likely because of incorrectly timed skill usage.  Did you try to squeeze in that extra FB then find yourself struggling to keep up Rip, or even worse...SR?  Additionally, having to keep up an extra dot (Moonfire) will make it so your FB usage is very low....which doesn't seem to be your case in the logs you linked.

 

So, as I understand it, you are saying that correcting the following should give me 20k+ dps on Butcher:

- (major) fixing dot uptime to 97%+

- (moderate) Incarnation and Bloodtalons

- (moderate) better tracking of Berserk, stacking second Berserk with trinket and potion use

- (minor) not having opener and prepot screwed up by ninjapull

I would actually rank the opener and Incarnation/BT as major.  I have had openers peak at 55k dps with it.

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Incarnation is mandatory, even with our current gear levels. What Incarnation is absolutely going to change for you, since you're not getting the extra Energy from finishers, is you will use FB only in execute range. In a 3 minute kill you used the ability 8 times, but Rip and SR both dropped off. That should never happen.

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is you will use FB only in execute range.

 

I would clarify this to "usually only use FB when below 25% health". We can weave FB in, just not often.

Edited by Bradykin

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So much good advice. Thanks a bunch! Talents being major noted.

Some answers to queries

Not having energy is likely because of incorrectly timed skill usage.  Did you try to squeeze in that extra FB then find yourself struggling to keep up Rip, or even worse...SR? Additionally, having to keep up an extra dot (Moonfire) will make it so your FB usage is very low....which doesn't seem to be your case in the logs you linked.

My main problem currently seems to be holding back on that extra Shred. Have some "MUST uSE AS SOON AS POSSIBLE" reflexes ingrained in me through playing other classes that are hard to overcome while still paying attention to the encounter itself. This is obviously a pure skill issue, though.

Extra energy from Soul of the Forest and moonfire's reduced energy cost compared to Shred gives more Combo Points per energy, thus more opportunities for FB.
But, possibly, just enough more so as to screw up your rotation in other aspects - or at least it seems to work out that way for me.
 

Edited by ivMaxi

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So much good advice. Thanks a bunch! Talents being major noted.

Some answers to queries

My main problem currently seems to be holding back on that extra Shred. Have some "MUST uSE AS SOON AS POSSIBLE" reflexes ingrained in me through playing other classes that are hard to overcome while still paying attention to the encounter itself. This is obviously a pure skill issue, though.

Extra energy from Soul of the Forest and moonfire's reduced energy cost compared to Shred gives more Combo Points per energy, thus more opportunities for FB.

But, possibly, just enough more so as to screw up your rotation in other aspects - or at least it seems to work out that way for me.

 

 

one big thing I have found playing feral is you have a lot of "waiting" moments. If you check noxxics sim craft you'll find that like 40% of the ferals rotation is downtime. This is to build up energy and pool for when you need it. Most classes are OMG RESOURCE BURNNNNNNN but feral is not. It felt jarring at first but I forced myself to learn blood talons rotation and eventually it will click. The big thing is building up full energy "before" using a combo point spender. This way you can get your shreds in before you pop healing touch. I'll typically end up at 4 points before i have to cast it so I'll use rake and then my combo point finisher.

 

So, the big key I think is patience after your big burst opening :D

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How big is the difference between Moonfire and Blood Talons? Personally I prefer the Moonfire rotation a lot more. It also gives the ability to build combo points from range at lower energy cost during Immune or Ranged phases.

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How big is the difference between Moonfire and Blood Talons? Personally I prefer the Moonfire rotation a lot more. It also gives the ability to build combo points from range at lower energy cost during Immune or Ranged phases.

 

Depends on your gear, but in single target, it's usually a couple thousand at least. It's not insignificant.

 

For me in sims, the difference is about 1k dps, but my gear has obscene amounts of haste, which shortens the gap. Using LI in single target is the incorrect choice for feral, flat out. Can you still function using LI? Yes, you can. Is there possibly specific fights where it may pull slightly ahead? Yes, there are. That doesn't mean it isn't the objectively wrong choice for most encounters.

Edited by Bradykin

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Ferals have SOME rotation downtime, pick up dream of cenarius and spam a few rejuvs be top dps AND pull 7k heals.

Edited by Tetradei

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There's a DoC easymode healing macro in another thread here that Bradykin, Tetradei and myself all commented in, with different versions of the macro. I use most of my energy-pooling downtime to throw a rejuv on the tank, and maybe one other target, and then it's back into the rotation.

 

Sometimes, not spending energy is the best way to DPS, and that feels really counterintuitive. You have to learn to adjust to that playstyle.

The addon Claw may help you realize when those periods are. It's a great rotation training tool, and I highly recommend feral druids having DPS issues at least install it to see if it may help them with pooling and maintaining several sets of debuffs.

Here's a screenshot (an older one at that, heavily iterating on my UI ) of Claw (icons above my energy bar), with Need To Know bars below them to track all my important durations. I've been running into similar issues as you: DPS below where I should be, so I'm experimenting a lot with UI to make movement and rotation a little more intuitive and streamlined.

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