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Tigersharrk

[Arcane] Is this right for stats??!!

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Ok so this is the stat priority off of AMR for Arcane which is Int > Mastery > Crit >= Haste > Multi > Vers; I just want to know is this correct or is there a better priority?

 

Secondly, the  Crit >= Haste part leaves me to wonder if that means you could either stack Crit for harder hitting or Haste for quicker burst type damage. Or am I just reading it wrong and it really just says stack crit (which is what BiS seem to be suggesting). When I run AMR's best in slot without lvl 3 Hexweave (cause im not a tailor just have the shop) Multi gets higher than Crit. Is this a bad thing and should try to get/upgrade my hexweave gear??

 

Finally, Whats up with versatility? I've been told its a crap stat yet the Legendary Ring has it, WTF?!

 

Also, since I begin raiding this week, I want to make sure i'm getting my rotation right, I do:

 

ABx4, SNx2 then AM with w/e stacks I have finish with a ABarr and then repeat ( I occasionally do another AB or 2 to see if I get another AM or if I get no AM's and SN either doesn't produce any AM's or is on CD before I ABarr). I use AP with a on use haste trinket for a burst.

 

SN with Flow and PC for both adds and bosses are my current talents of choice at iLvl 633. I sometimes move to Overpowered but feel its kind of a pain to manage, especially with no AM's procs.

 

Let me know your thoughts.

Edited by Tigersharrk

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Vers is crap, even though the ring has it. Nothing to do about itemization. The opener depends on your procs, so a simple writedown isn't enough to dig it :)

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The secondary stat priority can vary depending on your current gear level. AMR isn't the best place to be getting your stat priority as well. The best you can do is run your own sims or try and find topics by high level mage players talking about stats.

 

My weights that I'm calculating today seem to still be doing Mastery > Mult >= Haste > Crit > Vers. There is a chance that personally I am not geared enough to start seeing a stat change over.

 

Normally when you see ">=" those two stats weigh very closely. Stat weights don't exactly do strict 'this' is better than 'that' at all times. 

 

Say you have the following pants:

Windcrystal Leggings

77 armor

157 int

251 stam

111 haste

111 mastery

 

Then an item drops in your group that has 111 multi and 111 mastery. You could roll on it for the very minor upgrade. (going by my weights) But the boost would be something like 50 more average dps. If you were doing this run with a theoretical guild priest who needs the upgrade because they still have 615 pants that are also multi/mastery, it would be a real jerk move to roll on these pants. (he's really unlucky when it comes to pant drops) 

Edited by Chrizesu

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Should I be spamming AE, like in MoP, for AoE mobs or is there something else I can do like using PC?

 

Also SN vs NT, with the new tuning which is better?

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There are 2 arcane guides on this site that cover your question :)

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Ok so after re-reading the IV guide im putting out (no pun intended) about 13k dps with iLvl 633 on the dummies.

 

Thats with SV and PC, so I dont know if that is good or low.

 

Im going to try AoE spec next.

 

One question from the IV guide is it says on conserve phase that if I have AMx3 to cast one, what do I do with the rest just Abarr and repeat back to 3 not casting the other 2 or cast all 3 Abarr and repeat and does that count for if you dont have all 4 stack of AC?

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Ok so after re-reading the IV guide im putting out (no pun intended) about 13k dps with iLvl 633 on the dummies.

 

Thats with SV and PC, so I dont know if that is good or low.

 

Im going to try AoE spec next.

 

One question from the IV guide is it says on conserve phase that if I have AMx3 to cast one, what do I do with the rest just Abarr and repeat back to 3 not casting the other 2 or cast all 3 Abarr and repeat and does that count for if you dont have all 4 stack of AC?

 

Yeah, that seems way too low to me. When my mage was around that item level I was doing around 17k and I don't even do the best rotation.

 

My Opening: (not counting pots or time warp/lust/heroism/ancient hysteria/thing that gives everyone haste)

Arcane Orb, Arcane Blast until Arcane Charges at 4, Arcane Power Macro (includes on use trinkets), supernovax2(unless 3 missile procs/weave with missile procs to get more missile procs), Arcane Missiles and Arcane Blasts to 50% mana (never lower/just before ok), Evocation to full mana, Arcane Orb, Conserve phase

 

Conserve Phase: (priority system, top to bottom)

Switch to Burn Phase if Evocation will be up about when my burn phase will call for it (depends on standing procs and level of haste, that's why I can't put a number on it)

Supernova at Incanter's Flow Max (only if using Incanter's Flow)

Arcane Orb if charges<=2 (if it can hit two targets, change that to <=1, and if three or more use it when charges are empty (you should be doing an aoe rotation if over three trash mobs))

Arcane Blast to 4 charges

Arcane Power Macro if up

Arcane Missiles

Supernova if Rune of Power to try and proc missiles (or save it for a double nova when arcane power is up)

Arcane Blast if over 95% mana

Arcane Barrage

 

Burn Phase:

1. Get to 4 charges

2. Do conserve rotation without arcane barrage

3. Use trinket actives

4. Evocation at or before 50% mana, arcane orb when you hit 100% mana (or cancel your evocation with arcane blast), and then go into conserve phase.

 

 

I consider the burn phase the most complex and simplest part of the arcane rotation at once. Mechanically it's the simplest because it consists of 2 or 3 buttons. Decision making wise it's the most complex because you want to go into it as soon as possible to not waste time, but you don't want to waste even more time waiting for Evocation to come up.

Also, if you are on Brackenspore, you want to go ham if healers set up the blue mushroom. By ham I mean you want to burn as much as possible in that blue mushroom effect. The blue mushroom is the best thing in the world for arcane mages.

 

Keep in mind that avoiding damage and counter spelling is top priority. If you have to disrupt your rotation to do either, do so. Remember: You have to be living in order to do damage.

You want to bind Ice Floes and use it during movement. You can set your Rune of Power to your destination while running.

 

And yes, I do use Arcane Orb. It's a part of my play style and I think Power Crystal is also a perfectly acceptable path.

Supernova might still be better than Nether Tempest because Supernova is more synergistic with Arcane Power.

 

Potions:

I normally save my in fight potion for the first burn phase (not including the opener as one) or for raid haste buff (whatever it might be called).

 

 

As an addition:

After thinking about it I may have figured out why crit>=haste/multi for some people. It has to do with trinkets. Just like how ToT trinkets made haste really good for everyone; a lot of trinkets in WoD scale with crit. I don't see the crit coming up for my mage because I run really awkward trinkets. ((Socket) Munificent Orb of Ice/Coagulated Genesaur Blood)

 

I hope I didn't mess up anything in this post. I have a habit of missing things. Incomplete thoughts since my mind moves faster than my hands. Darn you hands and your slowness.

Edited by Chrizesu

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K ill try that, the 2 man AoE part of the guide seem to work but then when I went to single target for Ko'rath my DPS started to drop down to 6-5k but then again a lot of ppl had that so. Movement fights suck for the burn phase having to evoke, I miss the MoP evoke that let you use it quick and on the move oh well. 

 

Dont know how to use SimC to tell if Crit is better than haste or Multi so I guessing haste to pump out more AB's on burn.

 

Thanks you have been helpful

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Yeah, I normally go frost for high movement. Ice Flows isn't too bad to help with the movement, but I feel like the charges don't come up enough for me. The cast times on arcane spells is just too long.

 

When you have SimC up go to options and then go to scaling. The scaling takes a lot of time to sim, so I hope you have a good processor.

 

Edit: I can't give any frost help since I am terrible at frost. I mostly press buttons and hope for results. :P

Edited by Chrizesu
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Edit: I can't give any frost help since I am terrible at frost. I mostly press buttons and hope for results. :P

If this was 5.4, that would be the correct rotation :p

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Arcane Orb if charges<=2 (if it can hit two targets, change that to <=1, and if three or more use it when charges are empty (you should be doing an aoe rotation if over three trash mobs))

 

 

I think thats what is hurting me the most is that I am so confused on what to do with trash mobs. IV guide says to use NT and ABarr at 4 charges and anything over 4 adds to go back to spamming AE,CoC and ABarr. Either way I do it my dps just isn't going up at all, at least in hero dungeons.

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I think thats what is hurting me the most is that I am so confused on what to do with trash mobs. IV guide says to use NT and ABarr at 4 charges and anything over 4 adds to go back to spamming AE,CoC and ABarr. Either way I do it my dps just isn't going up at all, at least in hero dungeons.

 

Heroics are a weak point for arcane mages. A lot of movement, but we have decent aoe when it comes to trash.

 

Arcane orb is actually pretty good for trash. You can orb than barrage at 4 charges and then do the usual aoe spam. (I don't CoC, but I am incredibly lazy on trash.) The biggest impact with the talent switch is that orb is up every 15 and PC is only up every 1.5 min. (baseline without haste) Don't forget to supernova as well. It's very good at doing lots of aoe damage, plus it can help mitigate damage on risky pulls.

 

You can still use your PC bosses, but that requires talent swapping. It's a good idea to carry around a stack of Tomes either way.

 

 

If this was 5.4, that would be the correct rotation tongue.png

 

 

Remember when casting ice lance could be a dps loss? XD

Edited by Chrizesu
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Yay I've figured it outsmile.png  

 

Out of the 3 dung I ran I was 17k in 2 and top in 1 (Grimrail was a bitch due to having to be very careful with AO on a majority of the pulls so I dropped on that one). 

 

Pretty much, AO to 4 stacks - SN at 5 of Flow (All Day)- CoC (When Available)-Spam AE and Abarr when AO is off CD then repeat till 1 target or all dead.

 

The boss fights I still see my DPS drop a little but still hold good numbers, Burn Phase: AB to 2 stacks and AO to 4 - Pop AP+Trinket then spam AB for burn and SN when at 5 of Flow till just under 50% then Evoke and Conserve.

 

You said you were using AM during burn?

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Yay I've figured it outsmile.png  

 

Out of the 3 dung I ran I was 17k in 2 and top in 1 (Grimrail was a bitch due to having to be very careful with AO on a majority of the pulls so I dropped on that one). 

 

Pretty much, AO to 4 stacks - SN at 5 of Flow (All Day)- CoC (When Available)-Spam AE and Abarr when AO is off CD then repeat till 1 target or all dead.

 

The boss fights I still see my DPS drop a little but still hold good numbers, Burn Phase: AB to 2 stacks and AO to 4 - Pop AP+Trinket then spam AB for burn and SN when at 5 of Flow till just under 50% then Evoke and Conserve.

 

You said you were using AM during burn?

 

I'm glad your arcane mage is working better for you now. ^_^

(I've even managed to pull adds with my ret paladin on Grimrail. The average tank will not know to pull back unless you ask them.)

 

Yes, I do use AM during burn. From a comment on one of Berlinia's guides: http://altered-time.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=9237#p9237

Don't worry about trying to stockpile AM procs. It's a dps loss to hold off on your burn phases.

 

I do the AO before the AB because AB will do more damage from the charges made by your AO. You can use time taken up by your global cd to move, such as casting AO and then moving into a better position.

 

 

I just realized that I never cover what you do if you hit 3 AM procs before 4 charges. You use the extra proc and then continue the priority system. This case should be rare however, as blizzard did some hidden streamlining to the proc system.

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I do the AO before the AB because AB will do more damage from the charges made by your AO. You can use time taken up by your global cd to move, such as casting AO and then moving into a better position.

 

 

Ok cool i'll start doing AM in burn then whenever they proc. Now the above I am guessing is during a single target boss fight?

Also AO resets the charge timer like AE does?

 

 

 

 

 

 

So I noticed something in at the top of the linked page that someone posted a link for stat weights for different Arcane specs, just wondering if those would be accurate since they are done recently? Here's the link: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=833

Edited by Tigersharrk

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Ok cool i'll start doing AM in burn then whenever they proc. Now the above I am guessing is during a single target boss fight?

Also AO resets the charge timer like AE does?

 
AO gives you a charge for each target it hits and refreshes the timer. It does poor damage itself, but the charges are useful.
 

 

So I noticed something in at the top of the linked page that someone posted a link for stat weights for different Arcane specs, just wondering if those would be accurate since they are done recently? Here's the link: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=833

 

 

 

I think this might be in between a few hotfixes, but it's still decently accurate. As you can see, the spread allows for playstyle. Differences in about 1% you shouldn't care about. In fact, it's best to go with the play style that fits you in game.

Edited by Chrizesu

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Yeah ok cool, well at least it gives me a basis and something I can plug into AMR besides their default.

 

The way im reading it for iLvl 630 gear (even though im 637 right now) is Int>Mast>Multi>Crit>=Haste>Vers (for my play style SN,IF,AO).

 

I still dont get how PC is good for single target, if I crit on it and it sends a fraction of that damage to the boss (or target closest to it) so why would I use that. I can see it viable if when the crystal explodes/despawns (w/e it does at the end) it detonates a big crit number but im not seeing that in the fight, i just see it go away at its end.

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Wut? for a fraction of the damage?

 

spell_mage_focusingcrystal.jpgPrismatic Crystal

 

You mean 100% + 30% for fire/arcane, 10% for frost... Which means, it increases your damage as arcane to the boss by 30%. If there are 2 targets in the range of your PC, this 130% will be sahred between them evenly.

 

Crystal does damage when your spell hit it, not at the end of the duration it has never done that. This is why you want to hit it with as many spells as possible..

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Yeah ok cool, well at least it gives me a basis and something I can plug into AMR besides their default.

 

The way im reading it for iLvl 630 gear (even though im 637 right now) is Int>Mast>Multi>Crit>=Haste>Vers (for my play style SN,IF,AO).

 

I still dont get how PC is good for single target, if I crit on it and it sends a fraction of that damage to the boss (or target closest to it) so why would I use that. I can see it viable if when the crystal explodes/despawns (w/e it does at the end) it detonates a big crit number but im not seeing that in the fight, i just see it go away at its end.

Prismatic crystal amplifies the damage by 30% like Oltier said and is amazing burst. I haven't touched arcane orb yet so i can't comment on it, but burn phase at the start of the fight with crystal has me 50k+  I don't like the playstyle of the crystal, but i love it's burst damage.

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Got you, just doesn't feel like its hitting the 100% only the 30%...and then there's the tanks which I swear they think the boss dropped the crystal and they need to move away from it. I'll try going back to PC on Bosses and see if I cant get that nailed down cause AO just doesn't feel right when there is only one target. It sucks that OP cant be better :(

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Got you, just doesn't feel like its hitting the 100% only the 30%...and then there's the tanks which I swear they think the boss dropped the crystal and they need to move away from it. I'll try going back to PC on Bosses and see if I cant get that nailed down cause AO just doesn't feel right when there is only one target. It sucks that OP cant be better sad.png

For heroics delay using PC for a second to make sure your tank isn't going to run the boss away. For raids you should have a general idea where your raid wants to tank the boss at.

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I think people are confused on how to play arcane in this expac.

Its simple but hard to track during fights.

Arcane Orb is the best level 100 trait to use imo. Because it interacts with your charges.

It creates a charge just for casting it, and another per hit. So if it hits 3 mobs boom 4 charges in an instant.

I do not use NT that spell is not scaled right in dmg, if you look at frost bomb and living bomb they do triple the dmg even at four charges NT only does around 4.5k around 17k after 12secs.

I find Super Nova a much better spell it has crit for me for 90k and it multi strikes.

The way I use it is I track the stacks on Encanter's Flow once it hits five (20% dmg increase at 5 stacks) I hit AP then cast both charges of SN. I have no problem with aoe on adds although arcane is naturally weak on aoe besides SN.

My rotation is basic 2 AB then AOrb if its one target if its many jus the Orb.

Hit AP wait for stacks SN, then the common rotation AB till 90% mana then costume my missile charges

then ABarrage. On dummy I do 17k just with my arc buff in dungeons I pull 20k or higher depending on party comp.

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