Shedim

[Resto] Preparing for mythics - ability analysis v2

14 posts in this topic

As a follow up on my last post (which was a simple sketch to be used for Challenge Modes), I bring you my ability analysis - version 2. 

 

These are the calculations I will be basing my healing on for mythic Highmaul (heading in there later tonight).

 

For the calculations, all raid buffs are applied (including flask and food buff)
It is based on my 659 ilvl character with the following stats:

~5200 spell power
~12% haste
~9% crit
~11% multistrike
~1% versatility

All sort of effects, glyphs and talents are taken into consideration (like Living Seed, Mastery: Hamony etc).

The values are calculated with the following talents and glyphs:

Tree of Life: Incarnation
I feel this is the most useful talents for Highmaul based on my heroic experience (clearing 3 times now). Soul of the Forest is also a viable talent, but having an extra raidcooldown to rotate seems like the best choice.

Germination:
Without Soul of the Forest, Germination is the only real choice here. All calculations are made with the improved Rejuvenation.

Glyph of Regrowth:
I have decided not to go with this glyph as it slightly reduces the output when not used for tank healing. As we have 2 holy paladins in our roster, I prefer to have the increased output (2-3%) and the HoT effect for using Swiftmend. 

 

Glyph of Wild Growth:

This glyph greatly increases the mana efficiency of Wild Growth, making it more mana efficient than Rejuvenation. It also slightly increases your overall output if can heal all 6 targets.

 

Now, to my conclusions.

These charts show the effectiveness of different abilities based on the amount of raid damage. At the out most left, the ability is valued solely on it's efficiency. These values are obtained by dividing the amount of healing granted by the mana cost of the ability. To the out most right, the ability is valued solely on it's output. These values are obtained by dividing the amount of healing granted by the amount of time spent casting the ability. (Note: Wild Mushroom doesn't have a high HPS when casted for emergency, but if you divide the amount of healing over 30sec with the cast time of a gcd, the output per cast time is enormous)

The chart is then made by drawing a line between these two points. In this way you're able to compare abilities based on some intermediate states.

 

How to read this: 

Pick a position on the x-axis (low to moderate to high raid damage), and then have a look on the effectiveness on the abilities above this point. You want to use the abilities with the highest y-value. This means, for example, that using Wild Growth on cooldown becomes more important than maintaining 100% uptime on Lifebloom during moderate to high raid damage. 

 

 

hC8ikY6.png

 

 

 

The next chart is zoomed in on the lower half of the first chart.

 

L2wQfdI.png

 

 

Finally, what happens when you use Tree of Life? (compare with the first chart)

 

Bz6mN4v.png

 

 

A few short conclusions:

 

- Healing Touch is in theory never worth using except one situation:

You have Lifebloom on your tank and the raid damage is very low.

Cover the raid in Rejuvenations and let the hard caster do the single target healing. 

 

- Swiftmend should be used over Regrowth for emergency healing during low to moderate raid damage. (Note: emergency healing means healing someone who would otherwise die. If this isn't the case, use Rejuvenation). Regrowth should be used during high raid damage, but you should still prioritize Rejuvenation if possible (unless if the target can benefit from Living Seed).

 

- Maintaining 100% uptime on Wild Mushroom is the most important task in nearly all situations (besides maintaining 100% uptime on Harmony)

Edited by Shedim
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Hi, thanks for the work!

 

Would you be willing to write an overview which talentcombo's work best together? In MoP I had excellent results with Soul of the forest: Using it as a platform to augment healing as needed (strong single or strong multi target healing). In addition Heart of the Wold was the best choice.

 

Now in WoD I'm interested in sustained high throughput and hope that I can continue with Soul of the Forest. Also am unsure which lvl 100 talent to pick. Rampant growth is too mana intensive for my current spirit level and that leaves us with Moment of Clarity and Germination. Which of the two has more throughput? And is Incarnation: Tree of Life the better option over SotF?

 

Kind regards,

D

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@Destiny1979

 

The only two viable talent combinations here are

 

Soul of the Forest + Rampant Growth

and

Incarnation: Tree of Life + Germination.

 

It is very hard to simulate this, but a rough estimate looks like this:

 

If you only use SotF to empower Wild Growth on cooldown, both talent combinations are about equal in terms of output, but SotF+RG uses around 10% more mana compared to ToL+Germ. 

 

If you also use SotF to empower Rejuvenations in between Wild Growth casts, SotF+RG heals about 5% more than ToL+Germ but uses 20% more mana. This assumes perfect consumption of existing Rejuvenations (for Swiftmends) so that a minimum of healing is wasted. 

 

As you can see, given the large margin of error by using SotF+RG compared to ToL+Germ, it is simply not worth the hypothetical 5% increased healing (which would consume 20% more mana as well). Chances are that people with low duration on Rejuvenation (or Regrowth) won't benefit from Swiftmend at all. A few 100% increased Rejuvenations (SotF+RG) are also more likely to overheal than a bunch of 20% increased Rejuvenations (ToL+Germ).

 

I believe that Tree of Life + Germination is superior in any situation for raiding. 

 

Regarding T90 talents, they're completely open (they don't have any special synergy with other talents)

 

Heart of the Wild is good if burst healing is needed during a specific time or if the tanking/dps potential is needed. A good example is last boss in Highmaul, Imperator. You can use HotW on pull for big burst damage (there won't be anything to heal anyways), and then again for getting through intermission 2 quickly (eventually spending the last few seconds of the buff to empower your tranq while your raid aoe the elementals)

 

Dream of Cenarius is excellent for fights with periods of low raid damage or long fights where you run into mana issues.

 

Nature's Vigil is the default go-to talent if you wanna keep things simple. If used on cooldown, it provides an average of 5-10% increased healing as well as a fair amount of damage. 

Edited by Shedim

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Shedim, thank you for your elaborate post!

 

Currently I'm using SotF, Nature's Vigil and Moment of Clarity. This is from a mana saving (MoC) and throughput perspective. I'm sitting on around 1000 spirit with below 640 ilvl. Soul of the Forest + Rampant Growth will drain my mana too fast as our progression group is not hardcore and sometimes ignorant about raidmechanics which makes fights last longer.

 

I'll be trying Tree of Life with Germination. Question: How do I optimallly use this Germination? (Do's donts) Lifebloom on one tank and 2x rejuvenation on both tanks? By taking away SotF I lose my Utility heal that heals big how do i compensate? Is it also true that using Germination while in Tree of Life plus Natrure's Vigil will give a huge raidwide heal over time?

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Use your hots on anyone taking sustained dmg, or anyone on low HP. Lifebloom is not restricted to the tanks, only using it on them half the time. No encounters until mythic level requires you do pre-cast hots on people before they take damage, so dont worry about that. If there is nothing to heal do:

1. Moonfire

2. Wrath

 

Basicly, keep mushroom, lifebloom and mastery up when heals are needed. Use free Regrowths and spam Rejuvenation. Use swiftmend only as emergency healing or to quickly get your mastery buff refreshed. Limit use of non-free Regrowths - Rejuvenation does more healing.

 

Tree of life is nearly as powerful as tranq but requires a bit of preparation:

1. refresh your mushroom before popping it

2. refresh your lifebloom and preferably also you mastery buff

 

Pop tree of life and follow the rotation:

1. Wild Growth on cooldown

2. Rejuvenation

 

Refresh mushroom, mastery buff and lifebloom as they expire

Edited by Shedim

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- Maintaining 100% uptime on Wild Mushroom is the most important task in nearly all situations (besides maintaining 100% uptime on Harmony)

 

I have a quick question for this. How often do you recast Wild Mushroom? For fights like Butcher and Brackenspore, it is pretty easy to maintain  wild mushroom with multiple targets for full duration, but what about fights like Twin Ogres and Ko'ragh where bosses are constantly being moved?

 

Do you recast Wild Mushroom everytime the boss move? People keeps saying to have 100% uptime on Wild Mushroom, but I don't see how you would have enough mana if you have to recast it every 15 seconds or so. Alternately, I could cast it on the range dps instead of on tanks / melee dps, but then it would only hit 3-4 people at most.

 

@Destiny1979

 

The only two viable talent combinations here are

 

Soul of the Forest + Rampant Growth

and

Incarnation: Tree of Life + Germination.

 

It is very hard to simulate this, but a rough estimate looks like this:

 

If you only use SotF to empower Wild Growth on cooldown, both talent combinations are about equal in terms of output, but SotF+RG uses around 10% more mana compared to ToL+Germ. 

 

If you also use SotF to empower Rejuvenations in between Wild Growth casts, SotF+RG heals about 5% more than ToL+Germ but uses 20% more mana. This assumes perfect consumption of existing Rejuvenations (for Swiftmends) so that a minimum of healing is wasted. 

 

As you can see, given the large margin of error by using SotF+RG compared to ToL+Germ, it is simply not worth the hypothetical 5% increased healing (which would consume 20% more mana as well). Chances are that people with low duration on Rejuvenation (or Regrowth) won't benefit from Swiftmend at all. A few 100% increased Rejuvenations (SotF+RG) are also more likely to overheal than a bunch of 20% increased Rejuvenations (ToL+Germ).

 

I believe that Tree of Life + Germination is superior in any situation for raiding. 

 

Regarding T90 talents, they're completely open (they don't have any special synergy with other talents)

 

Heart of the Wild is good if burst healing is needed during a specific time or if the tanking/dps potential is needed. A good example is last boss in Highmaul, Imperator. You can use HotW on pull for big burst damage (there won't be anything to heal anyways), and then again for getting through intermission 2 quickly (eventually spending the last few seconds of the buff to empower your tranq while your raid aoe the elementals)

 

Dream of Cenarius is excellent for fights with periods of low raid damage or long fights where you run into mana issues.

 

Nature's Vigil is the default go-to talent if you wanna keep things simple. If used on cooldown, it provides an average of 5-10% increased healing as well as a fair amount of damage. 

 

Is it that much worse to go Sotf + Germination?

 

I am only a little way past halfway through heroic HM, so I may not be at the point where I need that extra throughput, but I have been doing rather well with spamming SoTF Wildgrowth every 15 seconds and spamming rejuv during offtime.

 

Assuming that I want to use Germination, on what basis did you base your opinion about Incarnation being better than Sotf?

 

I will give Tree of Light a shot in my next raid.  I am just worried about my timing for popping it properly. How much of the 30 seconds do I need to utilize for it to be as effective as SoTF as you mentioned?

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Another quick question. Generally, at the very end of the Imperator fight, I always get so low on mana that I can't afford to cast Wild Mushroom anymore. In this case, should I be saving mana to cast wild mushroom or forego it for more rejuvs / wild growth?

 

Thanks.

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To answer your question:

 

1. You should place your Wild Mushrooms in a way that causes them to heal for their full duration. I haven't encountered any issues with this in Highmaul yet. Keep in mind that it will only heal 3 people at a time, meaning you don't need to target a big group of players. For your examples:

Twin Ogrons: Put it on melee/tanks. The bosses should remain somewhat stationary on one location throughout the fight except during whirl/charge. As the melee can't follow the bosses when they use these abilities, they will still stay on your mushroom.

Ko'ragh: The boss shouldn't really be moving. Put it on melee once again.

 

2. SotF + Germination isn't that bad if you need sustained healing, but as the damage intake on most boss fights isn't sustained, Tree of Life is a really useful cooldown. I'd rather have a strong increase to healing 30 sec out of 180 sec, than a small buff every 15 seconds. The output of the two talents is nearly equal, with my calculations indicating that Tree pulls slightly ahead with proper usage. 

 

3. If you look at my chart, you can find the answer to the far left (where abilities are rated solely on their mana efficiency). Assuming nothing overheals:

 

Keep Lifebloom up (let it bloom for extra efficiency, unless the target can benefit from a clearcasting proc)

Use Clearcasting procs

Keep Wild Mushroom up

Use Wild Growth on cooldown (only if it is glyphed)

 

Spam Rejuvenation as long as you can maintain mana for the priority above.

Obviously you should keep 100% uptime on Harmony as well. Use Healing Touch for this if need be, and prioritize the tanks or lifebloom target with this ability, as long as it won't overheal.

Edited by Shedim

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I've got 2 quick question regarding WG,

 

I know mana/healing wise its equal to Rejuv [at 5 targets, and increasingly better the more people it hits] but how low do you let health drop before using it? Based on some basic napkin math i know you can use it at ~75% and avoid overhealing even if you have other hots active [not account for other healers] but this seems like overkill should i wait till closer to 50% to conserve mana etc

 

Whats your opinion/fact/theorycrafting regarding Break points,/Ticks & Partial ticks with WG?

 

EDIT 1/ I removed the wall of text, after further testing i've actually got some conclusive proof that WG does not scale with Haste after you reach said breakpoints, Whole discussion on it here on WOW Forums

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/13123423044?page=1#15

 

Note: I'm not some theorycrafter by any means Originally i was trying to figure out stat-wise whether to drop my Normal WF Trinket [http://www.wowhead.com/item=113835/shards-of-nothing&bonus=560] For the one I got in LFR [http://www.wowhead.com/item=116290&bonus=0]

 

Yeah its 21 ilvl lower (shame on me) But I have no idea what to do with +1400 on-use haste since i already have NS/NV/ITOL For when i need more output and dropping 67 INT to gain 175 Haste "seems" like a good idea, I expect to get shot down for this thinking biggrin.png

Edited by Brady84

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I was really enjoying the gameplay change of healing in 6.0. Sadly they quickly returned to the spiky healing patterns in WoD. Learn the encounters and you know when you can afford to let ppl stay on low HP for longer amounts of time. From my experience with mythic so far, you need to top people immediately on nearly every mechanic, sadly.

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I wasn't aware of the scaling glitch with Wild Growth, I'll look into it

 

Thanks, theres a BP at ~14.3% and ~28.58% after that its prob 43% or w/e but there not enough gear to reach that high anyway regardless [if you enter PG you get all raid buffs so its much easier to test in there but from my "numbers" WG heals for almost identical whether you are 1haste above the breakpoint or 1000 as the partial tick is always a full tick]

 

EDIT: The Tooltip for Rejuv is also broken, as it shows the healing based on having a full "final" tick when you only get a partial tick

 

Possibly not directly related to this post and should be in the general 6.0.3 guide, but where is the "math" / "theorycrafting" / "proof" behind the stat weights[AMR] or where can i work out genuine stat weight since Simulcraft doesnt work, I seem to have endless arguements on Druid Forums because my brain takes over & because i question the mainstream i'm a noob or l2p etc

Edited by Brady84

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Statweights are difficult to calculate because there are so many factors. Also, multistrike is influenced by crit meaning it also depends on your current stats.

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